what proof is there that god exists? (4 Viewers)

[fliick]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to beg to differ. Must we have a purpose to live? I live because I want to live; not because of some imaginary being telling what I can and can't do. And, if death is the end, so be it.

Why waste your time now if you know there's something better after death? Woulodn't it be more prudent to slaughter our young now so they are ensured a one-way ticket to heaven.

Agreed.
That will to live is a basic survival instinct. Electro-chemical impulses in the brain. It cannot be counted as proof for god.
Lol 'Cassie' by Flyleaf makes a similar analogy, but on a more personal scale.

 

[theism]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to beg to differ. Must we have a purpose to live? I live because I want to live; not because of some imaginary being telling what I can and can't do. And, if death is the end, so be it.

Yes.
anthropoloy brings it out time and time again, that humans have an innate drive for purpose and meaning. every single culture, every civilization has had an innate drive for purpose and meaning.

why do you want to live?
as in what are you living for?
materialism? hedonism? to reproduce? natural selection?

one of those? or something else.
if it is, then what is the evidence that supports that purpose?
and consider, is that evidence.. trustworthy?
if it isn't trustworthy, then it isn't reliable.

Why waste your time now if you know there's something better after death? Woulodn't it be more prudent to slaughter our young now so they are ensured a one-way ticket to heaven.

i believe my purpose on this earth is to love God, love others, and to spread the good news.
to kill myself so i can go to heaven early is selfish... at the very least.
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]
on that note, here is something that may interest you.

Leo Tolstoy, the great Russian novelist, asked,'What is life for? To die? To kill myself at once? No, I am afraid. To wait for death till it comes? I fear that even more. Then I must live. But what for? In order to die? And I could not escape from that circle." Ernest Hemingway, the great American novelist, wrote, "Life is just a dirty trick, a short journey from nothingness to nothingness."

Confronted by the meaninglessness of life, Hemingway decided to shorten the journey by committing suicide. If your birth was an accident and if your death will be an accident, then all that lies between is another accident we call life.

Adam Schaff, the Polish Marxist philosopher, writes, "From the point of view of the progress of nature death is entirely sensible. But from the point of view of a given individual death is senseless and places in doubt everything that he does.... Attempts to ridicule this do not help."Carl Jung, the famous psychologist, said, "The question of the meaning and worth of life never becomes more urgent or more agonizing than when we see the final breath leave a body which a moment before was living."Jean Paul Sartre, the French existentialist philosopher, wrote, "Manis absurd, but he must grimly act as if he were not." Why not? Why not face the logical ramifications of those assumptions? If there is no God, life is an accident. Humanity is absurd. Try and live out that view of reality. Most of us can't or refuse to. We insist upon attaching meaning and significance to our lives and actions. We have an innate drive to understand the purpose of our lives.Jesus said that we were created to love God with our heart, soul, mind and strength and to love our neighbor as ourselves.Our desire to live meaningful lives comes from the Creator who made us for a purpose.

Many of us pervert the purpose of life from loving God and loving people to the pursuit of superficial happiness and instant gratification. This makes sense for a few affluent, educated Westerners. It automatically condemns the majority of humanity to a meaningless existence. Jesus said, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (Jn 3:16). Jesus Christ makes sense not simply for one sector of humanity but for the entire world. Jesus Christ brings meaning and purpose in life to the person in the third world and to the person in the United States.

[/FONT]

 

[SeCKSiiMiNh]

Yes.
anthropoloy brings it out time and time again, that humans have an innate drive for purpose and meaning. every single culture, every civilization has had an innate drive for purpose and meaning.

why do you want to live?
as in what are you living for?
materialism? hedonism? to reproduce? natural selection?

one of those? or something else.
if it is, then what is the evidence that supports that purpose?
and consider, is that evidence.. trustworthy?
if it isn't trustworthy, then it isn't reliable.




i believe my purpose on this earth is to love God, love others, and to spread the good news.
to kill myself so i can go to heaven early is selfish... at the very least.

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]on that note, here is something that may interest you.[/FONT]

Alright, let's say I accept the fact the we all have an innate drive for meaning and purpose. Why then must the answer lie in a "god"?

 

[theism]

Alright, let's say I accept the fact the we all have an innate drive for meaning and purpose. Why then must the answer lie in a "god"?

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica] even a cursory study of anthropology shows us that every culture has had some kind of belief system. Humankind is incurably religious. Blaise Pascal, the brilliant seventeenth-century French physicist wrote, "You and I have a God-shaped vacuum at the center of our being." Every culture shows evidence of the drive to fill this empty space with something satisfying religiously. You and I have a sex drive. There is a sexual relationship to satisfy that drive. You and I have an appetite for food. There is food to satisfy our appetite. You and I also have a drive to know God. The Bible reveals that God created us to know him. [/FONT]

 

[theism]

would i be correct in saying..
the reason why you're an atheist is because, the evidence is lacking for the existence of God?

 

[fliick]

would i be correct in saying..
the reason why you're an atheist is because, the evidence is lacking for the existence of God?

This is why I never rule it out completely. There is nothing to prove or disprove god.
Just the odds are in favour of science

 

[theism]

This is why I never rule it out completely. There is nothing to prove or disprove god.
Just the odds are in favour of science

but science doesn't disprove the existence of God.

i'll ask you again.

the reason why you're an atheist is because, the evidence is lacking for the existence of God?

if not.
what is the reason?

 

[fliick]

but science doesn't disprove the existence of God.

Exactly.

 

[ad infinitum]

I do not know the mind of God,
however if you read the bible, which is the inspired word of God, you can ascertain the statement with evidence.

Uh, where in the bible does it say 'god chose to limit his power'. It actually says he is all-powerful numerous times.

wrong again.
he allows suffering to occur, yes.

...You contradict yourself here. God obviously allows pain and suffering. He obviously created it.

I can guarantee you, all of the evil in the world today is as a result of mans sin.
ie. greed, pride, lust, etc.

What a revolting thing to say. So an innocent baby dies in a locked car on a hot day, upon what sin does this baby deserve to die? An earthquake wipes out an entire primary school (as happened in China last year) full of young students; what sins are they being punished for? For the sins of others? What sick mind would deem such a grotesque notion of punishment 'divine'?

now a question for you.

what do you live for,
and what is the evidence that whatever you are living for, is trustworthy?
what is the evidence that whatever you are living for is reliable?

I assign meaning to my own life (wants, friends. family, education, knowledge, etc), I will not submit to worshiping anything with my life (as you pathetically do). What strange, muddled thought are you trying to shit out with these questions of yours?

Yes.
anthropoloy brings it out time and time again, that humans have an innate drive for purpose and meaning. every single culture, every civilization has had an innate drive for purpose and meaning.

why do you want to live?
as in what are you living for?
materialism? hedonism? to reproduce? natural selection?

one of those? or something else.
if it is, then what is the evidence that supports that purpose?
and consider, is that evidence.. trustworthy?
if it isn't trustworthy, then it isn't reliable.

Homo sapiens, like all other creatures, have an evolved motivation to live and succeed. I ascribe meaning to my life, not some bronze age cult book.

i believe my purpose on this earth is to love God, love others, and to spread the good news.
to kill myself so i can go to heaven early is selfish... at the very least.

Ahh, the purpose of your life is to grovel at the feet of a god. How sad. You are a slave, and proud of your chains. What a servile, revolting thing to say out loud. If you want to be the plaything of a dictator then so be it, however keep this stuff private, do not dare try to spread this slave nonsense to others, to children.

 

[SeCKSiiMiNh]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica] even a cursory study of anthropology shows us that every culture has had some kind of belief system. Humankind is incurably religious. Blaise Pascal, the brilliant seventeenth-century French physicist wrote, "You and I have a God-shaped vacuum at the center of our being." Every culture shows evidence of the drive to fill this empty space with something satisfying religiously. You and I have a sex drive. There is a sexual relationship to satisfy that drive. You and I have an appetite for food. There is food to satisfy our appetite. You and I also have a drive to know God. The Bible reveals that God created us to know him. [/FONT]

And what context does pascal belong to? seventeenth century; where religion plays a huge role in one's life, where society still had an overidding fear of the unknown. we've evolved since then. science has answered many questions where religion failed and have undermined the very foundation of religion.
in regards to what you stated earlier about our need for meaning and purpose, maybe the idea of god was created to satisfy this need?

 

[SeCKSiiMiNh]

would i be correct in saying..
the reason why you're an atheist is because, the evidence is lacking for the existence of God?

Partly, but also because I am gay and find a certain verse in the in the bible rather... distasteful. Also, I simply cannot comprehend the idea of an all-powerful being who created us simply to love him and do his bidding.

 

[theism]

And what context does pascal belong to? seventeenth century; where religion plays a huge role in one's life, where society still had an overidding fear of the unknown. we've evolved since then. science has answered many questions where religion failed and have undermined the very foundation of religion.
in regards to what you stated earlier about our need for meaning and purpose, maybe the idea of god was created to satisfy this need?

what questions?

scientific questions?
matter?
well yes.
as it's painly obvious,
the bible is not a science text book.

as for the other question,
have a read at this article

 

[theism]

Partly, but also because I am gay and find a certain verse in the in the bible rather... distasteful. Also, I simply cannot comprehend the idea of an all-powerful being who created us simply to love him and do his bidding.

well i am not a homophone.
please understand i do not hate homosexuals.
i believe homosexuality is a sin yes,
but no more or less worse then stealing, lying, etc.

as for the other half..
why not?

does not even the most powerful king, want a son?

 

[fliick]

Partly, but also because I am gay and find a certain verse in the in the bible rather... distasteful. Also, I simply cannot comprehend the idea of an all-powerful being who created us simply to love him and do his bidding.

Lol choose another god to follow!
This thread wasn't restricted to christians/catholics and the Jesus it entails.

 

[theism]

Lol chose another god to follow!
This thread wasn't restricted to christians/catholics and the Jesus it entails.

yes by all means,

read the koran and examine for yourself.
ask yourself, is what mohammed claims reliable?
is his character, how he preached, how he treated others.
does it lead you to believe that what he claims is accurate?

likewise,

read the gospels
examine for yourself the eye-witness accounts of the life of Jesus Christ.
how he treated others, how he said no to racism.. to sexism
how he loved his enemies, even when his death was at their hands.
how he cried out 'forgive them father for they know not what they do' even when they were taunting him as he bled and died on the cross.
examine for yourself, does the historical evidence lead me to believe that he is what he claimed, the son of God, sent to earth to die for the sins of man.. if so, accept him,
or does it lead you to believe he was a quack.. if so reject him.

christianity does not demand blind faith.
feel free to look at other religions,
examine for yourself the evidence, the trustworthiness and reliability of each.


many religions claim to portray God accurately..
obviously they can't all be right because many contradict each other.
so examine for yourself, the trustworthiness, and reliability of each.
don't take it from me,
examine the gospels for yourself.
likewise, examine other religions.

and i hope you come to the same conclusion as i do, that Jesus Christ is indeed the son of God, who came to die for the sins of man..
and the trustworthiness of Jesus Christ.. is undisputable.

 

[theism]

Well there you go, I cannot be part of a religion that would allow homosexuality to exist, and then condemn me and tell me its a sin. It is not my free will that allows me to me this way. I simply am.

yes, many homosexuals have told me 'they were born that way'.. that it's just the way they are. now i can't say 'that's not true' because that would be incredibly ignorant of me to say that.

but let me.. ask you this.

i was born a heterosexual.. but... does that constrict me to only one women?

A question though, why did god create earth? Why not simplify create heaven and put his creations there to love with him? And what is god doing at the moment? Plotting against satan? Why is he taking so long to kill satan?

Good question...

I'm not too sure.
but i think God created earth so that humans could have a place to stay?
If he created a heaven, then his creations.. ie humans would of been forced to love him.

I am not sure what God is doing at the moment.
he is certainly moving though.

Satan has already been 'defeated' at the cross.
When Jesus Christ died, satan lost the war.

however, there are still battles occuring.
the bible, in the book of revelations, talks about Satan being locked up for 1000 years, and then finally being thrown into the lake of fire. (hell)

after those 1000 years, God will come down to earth, and a new 'heaven' will be made on earth.

 

[fliick]

yes by all means,

read the koran and examine for yourself.
ask yourself, is what mohammed claims reliable?
is his character, how he preached, how he treated others.
does it lead you to believe that what he claims is accurate?

likewise,

read the gospels
examine for yourself the eye-witness accounts of the life of Jesus Christ.
how he treated others, how he said no to racism.. to sexism
how he loved his enemies, even when his death was at their hands.
how he cried out 'forgive them father for they know not what they do' even when they were taunting him as he bled and died on the cross.
examine for yourself, does the historical evidence lead me to believe that he is what he claimed, the son of God, sent to earth to die for the sins of man.. if so, accept him,
or does it lead you to believe he was a quack.. if so reject him.

christianity does not demand blind faith.
feel free to look at other religions,
examine for yourself the evidence, the trustworthiness and reliability of each.


many religions claim to portray God accurately..
obviously they can't all be right because many contradict each other.
so examine for yourself, the trustworthiness, and reliability of each.
don't take it from me,
examine the gospels for yourself.
likewise, examine other religions.

and i hope you come to the same conclusion as i do, that Jesus Christ is indeed the son of God, who came to die for the sins of man..
and the trustworthiness of Jesus Christ.. is undisputable.

Reading and studying the bible is one of my goals for this year. Albiet a lame goal, I want some knowledge before attacking your/my faith.
EDIT* By attack I mean understand and gently probe...

 

[theism]

Reading and studying the bible is one of my goals for this year. Albiet a lame goal, I want some knowledge before attacking your/my faith.
EDIT* By attack I mean understand and gently probe...

well done.

i do appreciate your genuine questions.

if i may suggest, read the gospels first. (first four books of the new testament.. they are eye-witness accounts)
also feel free to ask any questions

 

[theism]

So homosexuals then, are ultimately condemned through no fault of their own?

And I don't know how to answer your question >.<

no they arn't condemned.

well what are your thoughts on my question?

because i was born a heterosexual... does that restrict me to ONE women?
absolutely not.

Well now over 2000 years has passed since jesus was hammered onto the cross. What's the hold up?

well.. before satan is thrown into the lake of fire, before Jesus Christ returns,
is a period of great tribulation..
something i don't look forward to.

i do think it is going to be very soon though.

 

[ComingUpForAir]

well done.

i do appreciate your genuine questions.

if i may suggest, read the gospels first. (first four books of the new testament.. they are eye-witness accounts)
also feel free to ask any questions

it's become clear to us that you possess a serious learning disability

Here's the path of action I reccomend;
-wipe away the various food bits around your mouth and on your bib
-Dispose of your Riddilen/Prosac supplies
-Discontinue the up-late online self-study bible course you are currently enrolled in
-Write down all your thoughts on the topic of religion on a piece of paper
-pick up the paper and walk out to the front of your house
-open the lid of the large bin on your nature strip
-put the paper in the bin
-crawl into the bin (i.e put yourself in the bin)
-close the lid
-wait in silence

now if your hear noises, i.e that of a large truck, do not worry, it is for the best