Does God exist? (9 Viewers)

[Shaz8teen]

You call yourself an atheist yet you don't even have the slightest clue of who God is.

Most atheists are like this :3

 

[Kiraken]

Wait what is the proof for a being of necessity?

 

[Sy123]

Firstly, I have zero ACCEPTANCE of anything theological. I understand perfectly what you are trying to assert; it just has no connection with our observable reality.

I'm not saying you have to accept anything, I'm saying you need to know what you're talking about. If I wanted to debate economic policy with someone, and I was ignorant of anything to do with economics, you'd rightly call me and fool and ignore me. Now think of the courtesy I'm extending to you by continuing to engage with you.

I would have thought it was obvious that I was implying that it is the fact that it does (supposedly) demand our subservience that makes it a control freak. What other reason could it possibly have for asking us to get on our knees before it, other than the the feeling of power it derives from that?

You didn't say "control freak" you said "petty control freak", you need to define what it means for God, who is a perfect Being with Omnipotence and Omniscience and has a Will, what it means for God to be "petty" and a "freak". I accept that God does "control" us, but that says nothing as to whether God exists or not.

As with all attempts to use logic to justify the existence of a god, this has devolved into assertions without proof that god exists, is eternal and is perfect, and that its existence is somehow necessary. They are all statements of personal belief .... they are your axioms, not your deductions.

I did not assert that God exists, I layed out a definition of God, namely that He is a Being with Omnipotence, Omniscience and has a Will, and has Necessary existence. This is the definition of "God" in the English language, if you don't like this definition, then I will hire a translator to translate whatever you mean by "G - o - d" into my English vocabulary. Then a proper proof for the existence of God would attempt to show that there is a being that is Omnipotent, Omniscient and has a Will.

If you asked me to prove that , you would not object to my proof if I lay out a definition of "e" namely

If you'll check again, that statement was based on a question ... "why would it demand our absolute subservience?"

How is this relevant to the question of God's existence?

I would have thought it was obvious that I was implying that it is the fact that it does (supposedly) demand our subservience that makes it a control freak. What other reason could it possibly have for asking us to get on our knees before it, other than the the feeling of power it derives from that?

How are words "petty" and "freak" to be applied to God? You need to answer this before you call God a "petty control freak"

If by "freak" you mean that God is doing something extreme and by extreme you mean that God is doing something morally wrong, then you need to provide a framework of objective ethics in order to judge God by. Of course you denied objective ethics in posts to dan694, therefore you have no logical right to imply that God is "immoral" unless you can provide such a framework (and show that this framework is real), and then apply it to God.

OK, so you're not christian .... you don't believe that Jesus is the son of god or that he performed miracles. That is refreshing. What do you think of people who do believe that nonsense?

I'm a Muslim who believes that Jesus was a Prophet who performed miracles, so I'm afraid you probably think of me in greater contempt than any Christian you meet. I deny that Jesus is the "son of God", but I do believe he performed miracles.

Miracles are also logically possible and therefore it is possible for God to create miracles in order to convice a people of the truth of a prophet. If you deny that miracles are possible for an Omnipotent being you require proof.

What is even more refreshing is the figure of 50% atheists in the poll. Religious belief is clearly on the wane.

Yeah it is on the wane in the western world sure

 

[braintic]

I'm a Muslim.

I'll butt out now. I choose life.

 

[Sy123]

I'll butt out now. I choose life.

You lack basic comprehension of rational arguments, so I guess it is better for you to just leave without embarrassing yourself further

 

[braintic]

You lack basic comprehension of rational arguments, so I guess it is better for you to just leave without embarrassing yourself further

Your 'rational' arguments have been littered with with assertions that you claim to be 'self-evident'.

It is not your reasoning that I don't comprehend. What I don't comprehend are the logical jumps that first require acceptance of these supposedly self-evident truths.

As I suggested before, religious people and non-religious people base their understanding of the universe on different axioms, and part of the point of my comments was that any attempt to try to argue the existence or non-existence of god based on pure logic is fruitless while these axioms are in conflict.

Which means that both of our viewpoints are based on belief alone.
My belief is that there is no need for any supernatural force to explain the universe, so a god is unnecessary, so there is no reason to accept its existence without the kind of evidence that would satisfy a scientist.
I accept that this is axiomatic - you don't seem to accept the same of your belief.

And even if that evidence comes, the likelihood that any particular religion is the correct one is miniscule. The individual religions are devised by MEN. And then I would have to decide - OK, so a god made the universe - do I really care?

Did I embarrass myself with that comment? Oh that's right - that is for ME to decide.

 

[Amleops]

"why would it demand our absolute subservience?"

This is actually a good question, I've been grappling with it myself recently. If God is a being that is supposed to be omniscient and perfect, you would think that he would be above all human vices, such as the need for validation and power. It's one thing if humans decide to worship him out of respect for all he has done, it's another if God mandates that himself. Which is why I question whether God actually did insist on that, or if it was just added by a few humans trying to impose what they think is right onto others.

I don't think that can be used to disprove the existence of God, but I do think it provides a valid reason for not taking attendance to any religions if one so desires. If God exists, I would think he would judge you on the person you are, not how devout you have been to a particular religious tradition. Of course, you can follow any tradition you want if it makes you happy to do so, but if you feel that the tradition you follow makes you inherently better than other people, then I believe that is a flawed view point.

Sorry I kind of went off on a tangent there haha.

 

[braintic]

This is actually a good question, I've been grappling with it myself recently. If God is a being that is supposed to be omniscient and perfect, you would think that he would be above all human vices, such as the need for validation and power. It's one thing if humans decide to worship him out of respect for all he has done, it's another if God mandates that himself. Which is why I question whether God actually did insist on that, or if it was just added by a few humans trying to impose what they think is right onto others.

I don't think that can be used to disprove the existence of God, but I do think it provides a valid reason for not taking attendance to any religions if one so desires. If God exists, I would think he would judge you on the person you are, not how devout you have been to a particular religious tradition. Of course, you can follow any tradition you want if it makes you happy to do so, but if you feel that the tradition you follow makes you inherently better than other people, then I believe that is a flawed view point.

Sorry I kind of went off on a tangent there haha.

Good point. All followers of the Abrahamic religions fail to see that their god is ridden with human vices.
Combining this point with a justification for my previous use of the word 'petty', this god is credited with murdering people for:

* daring to glance back at god wreaking his human-like vengeance on an entire city
* failing to have sex with his dead brother's wife
* being a first-born son
* complaining about the quality of bread
* touching the Ark of the Covenant (even though it was just to stop it from tipping over)
* being the baby of an adulterer
* mocking someone's bald head

and COUNTLESS others.

Is this the god without an iota of pettiness, who we are supposed to look up to as the model of good and perfection?

This god is much more than a petty control freak ... it is a psychopath. At least that's the way it is portrayed in the story. They should base an episode of Criminal Minds on this character.

 

[tofusenpai]

Plot twist

What if WE are god?

Yes
Ye
Y
N
No

Just no

 

[tofusenpai]

Instead of writing a large paragraph I want to share with you guys this video http://incmedia.org/content/god-science/. It won't take a lot of your time but I hope it will enlighten you in a way. Also this site has great videos on religion so you should check it out especially if you have any questions.

 

[braintic]

Instead of writing a large paragraph I want to share with you guys this video http://incmedia.org/content/god-science/. It won't take a lot of your time but I hope it will enlighten you in a way. Also this site has great videos on religion so you should check it out especially if you have any questions.

Yes
Ye
Y
N
No

Just no

 

[tofusenpai]

Yes
Ye
Y
N
No

Just no

Get your own comment so unoriginal m8

 

[Futureunswmedstudent]

Yes
Ye
Y
N
No

Just no

Get your own comment so unoriginal m8

buuuurrrrrnnn

 

[braintic]

Get your own comment so unoriginal m8

I just wanted to see how you reacted when your comment was thrown back at you.

I got the expected reaction.

Re the video: As if an atheist would watch a video from the Philippines, one of the most unbendingly christian countries (and ??coincidently?? one of the least educated).

 

[Futureunswmedstudent]

I just wanted to see how you reacted when your comment was thrown back at you.

I got the expected reaction.

Re the video: As if an atheist would watch a video from the Philippines, one of the most unbendingly christian countries (and ??coincidently?? one of the least educated).

are you actually a teacher?

 

[braintic]

are you actually a teacher?

I don't see the connection between your question and the topic at hand.

 

[tofusenpai]

I just wanted to see how you reacted when your comment was thrown back at you.

I got the expected reaction.

Re the video: As if an atheist would watch a video from the Philippines, one of the most unbendingly christian countries (and ??coincidently?? one of the least educated).

just cause they may not be one of the most educated countries and the fact that they're a third world country doesn't affect their religion and if they believe in God. It's ignorant of you to say that. Religion is more than education it's wisdom. Also religion doesn't discriminate race, colour or education.

 

[braintic]

just cause they may not be one of the most educated countries and the fact that they're a third world country doesn't affect their religion and if they believe in God. It's ignorant of you to say that. Religion is more than education it's wisdom. Also religion doesn't discriminate race, colour or education.

For starters, I didn't bring race or colour into the discussion, so please don't misrepresent me.

But there most definitely IS a correlation between levels of religiosity and the level of education attained by a country's population.
The only question is - which is the cause and which is the effect.

And being from a third world country makes it MUCH more likely that you will be religious.
I'm afraid it is ignorant of YOU to say there is no correlation.

Regarding your claim that "religion is wisdom", that is pretty difficult to interpret. It depends on which definition of wisdom you use.

If you take the definition "a body of knowledge", then I suppose it is wisdom. But pretty useless wisdom in comparison to the wisdom of science.

If you take the definition "the quality of having good judgement, sensibility and prudence", then I have to raise:
* the unwillingness to exercise birth control
* the refusal of contemporary medicine
(just for starters)

And if you want to state that your particular religion doesn't have those issues, then I would have to question the wisdom of you lumping ALL religion together as 'wisdom'.

 

[Futureunswmedstudent]

this thread is too deep for me o_o

 

[braintic]

this thread is too deep for me o_o

That's probably simply because, being only in year 10, you haven't begun to question the belief / lack of belief that you have grown up with, and neither have the people around you.

Three more years of high school should fix that. If not, uni definitely will.