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Forced to drop to Standard by School (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Bluee
- Start date
KingOfActing
lukewarm mess
Look I fully ceebs reading the whole thread but you've got to stop just blaming the school and take at least some responsibility.
You slacked off for a year and didn't do well - you can't just expect your school to accept "I promise I'll do better", they want something tangible and your results just weren't cutting it for them. You can argue with them and try to get back in the course, but you shouldn't expect them to. I'm assuming your school is ranked pretty well, and to the school you're a liability; an unnecessary risk. I'm not sure the legality for public schools, but if your school is a private/selective school I know that they for sure can dictate what courses you are and aren't allowed to take. You forfeited your right to remain in the course by not achieving the minimum requirements that the school has set - so if you want to go back into it you have to have a very strong argument.
You slacked off for a year and didn't do well - you can't just expect your school to accept "I promise I'll do better", they want something tangible and your results just weren't cutting it for them. You can argue with them and try to get back in the course, but you shouldn't expect them to. I'm assuming your school is ranked pretty well, and to the school you're a liability; an unnecessary risk. I'm not sure the legality for public schools, but if your school is a private/selective school I know that they for sure can dictate what courses you are and aren't allowed to take. You forfeited your right to remain in the course by not achieving the minimum requirements that the school has set - so if you want to go back into it you have to have a very strong argument.
I am not at all blaming the school
. If you had a look though my posts on this thread I am mostly blaming myself and I have went as far as advising future students to not end up in my situation. I am solely responsible. Nuff said.Thanks this is well said and I agree. I am working on something to say in my defence.
I don't go to either a private or selective but I go to a highly ranked Public school which is the top in the state. So yes I could be considered a liability to the school but it fits into neither of those categories so I should find some escape route
From the posts I have read so far on this forum is that you can't necessarily force a student to change their subjects which they have already been doing. I am not sure of the validity of this.
eyeseeyou
Well-Known Member
This was one of the reasons why I thought Bluee got forced out of advanced
Selective schools are technically public schools if you think about it.
I agree.
I am not at all blaming the school
Hey,
I'm going to be very honest in what I think.
While I understand you are upset at this sudden news, it is important that you do not blame the school, which is what the 3rd post I quoted sounds like. I would also avoid being confrontational with your teachers and escalating - even if you succeed you will sour the relationship with your existing teacher, and more likely the english faculty, and depending on how high you go, the school management. Consider if it is better to try your hardest in standard and do reasonably well, or to put up with a year of potential problems from your teacher.
As you admitted, this was your mistake, but look at it from their perspective as well. You said that the school does not seem to be concerned about your well being and interests. I would say it is unfair to say this. You were given the opportunity to enter the advanced class for Yr11 but as you said, you slacked off and bludged. Your rank is 114/170 - ~67% of your cohort is above you. The school is taking the interests of the majority here. Not to mention that it is very possible that you/any student could be struggling after all. The school might not just be dropping you because they wanted to protect themselves, but also because they genuinely thought standard would have less pressure and 'easier' content.
Like I said, you were given the opportunity in Yr10 to select advanced english. They gave this recommendation in Yr10, based on your Yr10 results. Of course if you had not bludged and worked like you did in Yr10, then you would not be in this situation. Obviously since they only had your most recent results to give you advice off of, they recommended you go into advanced, because you did well. How could they have known that you would slack off in Yr11? I don't see how you can blame them for giving you a chance in Yr10 when your marks were high and you were on course to do well.
You also mentioned there being no warning throughout the year. However if you got 60% in your final, then I am assuming your marks throughout the year were not too far from this mark. In order words, you were 11% from a fail mark throughout the year based on my assumption. While they should have given you explicit advice, you are if I recall correctly, at a selective school where the standard and responsibility is theoretically higher. I'm saying that your own marks (and rank) should have given you reasonable warning.
What happens if they let you stay and you still don't pick up your performance? Then you might find it necessary to drop to standard mid term, mid year where it would disrupt at least two classes. By dropping under performing students now, it makes it easier for them to set up a class as they know who is gone. But if you (and any other people that remained in advanced) drop later on, they might not have enough space in existing classes to accommodate. The most likely time you would drop is right after the first assessment where you can see how you are going in advanced. But if you drop at that point, you would be out of sync with what the standard class has already learnt. While the AOS will be the same, there is a chance that the standard teacher decided to teach a module first. You'll then have missed out on the teaching for the module and it would be unfair to expect a teacher to help you and possibly others catch up on a term's work. It is simply easier to organise the classes now (by dropping people) so that they can allocate which teacher will teach standard instead of advanced.
I know this can come off quite harsh, but please see it as an opportunity to pick yourself up and do your best even if you end up moving to standard. Of course I would still speak politely to your teacher and faculty about options, but it is wrong to see this as an attack from the school on you. Because for the reasons above, they are justified in most of what they did and you might not have considered the other practical reasons they are doing this. You are now coming into Yr12, the final year of school. You are almost an adult now, so I'd also advise that you consider objectively if you think the school was justified in their actions, and then genuinely take responsibility without blaming others.
Don't forget, standard (and the HSC) isn't the end of the world, and with hard work of course it is possible to do well. My school was ranked in the 300s and we had someone state rank standard.
Good luck for remaining in advanced!
pikachu975
Premium Member
lol well said. The school isn't dropping you to standard because they want you to fail your HSC, it's because they are predicting that you won't cope in advanced. If you drop to standard mid-way through year 12, you will be SO behind on texts and everything and it'll just end up as a lose-lose situation anyway and it'll cause you to do bad in standard in return.
eyeseeyou
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure everyone can cope in the HSC, as long as they put in the effort. Also advanced isn't that much different compared to standard so who the hell would want to drop lol
Nah they should do it in the first AOS assessment rather than mid-way yr 12 bc that's way too much damage
pikachu975
Premium Member
It's not enough to say "yeah dw I'll improve from rank 100 and become good at english" as a reason to not move down. They would've given warning throughout the year or at least given the chance for one more assessment, because in my school they said they had to improve by the next assessment or they'll go to standard. They should've put in the effort in year 11 but they didn't so they're taking the consequences now.
You did not come out in anyway harsh to me, you are in fact well reasoned and logical in what you are saying. I agree with all that you have said in principle, even though I may slightly disagree on some parts like on not taking this case further than the English faculty if all is not resolved.
I would do anything now to atone for my performance and lack of effort in English as whole in Yr 11. I had never expected to come to such a conclusion. If I had been aware of the consequences I would have definitely done something to change this. You are correct that I was given an equal opportunity to do well in Advanced and I have lost that right as far as the school is concerned.
I am serious about my all my subjects for the HSC whether I be doing Advanced or Standard English, I will be fully committed to all my subjects and work to do well in them. I never lacked the intelligence or capability as I am doing rather difficult Maths and Science subjects which I am performing well in. However I lacked the hardwork in terms of English which I again regret not putting enough time into.
If I were to be given the opportunity again to do Advanced English for Yr 12 I would work my life off to do well in and I will not waste such an opportunity ever again. There will be no way I will be in such a position to drop to Standard again.
Right now I am working on typing up an email to the Head Teacher of English and in no way do I want to come out as confrontational. I have made aware that much of what has occured is my fault and in no way do I plan to blame them in this regard.
If you have any other suggestions for me I would be happy to read them. I am by now well aware of the arguments that stand against me and what I need to overcome to get my case forward with the English faculty at my School.
I had like to make clear that no kind of warning was given, even in the form of a verbal warning, report letter, note or even in the Parent Teacher Interviews let alone there was no suggestion given to drop. I reemphasise they gave me no such warnings or chances to improve in Adv English.
eyeseeyou
Well-Known Member
I don't think improving like that will be sudden lol
Bluee wasn't given a warning (I don't think Bluee was)
Sometimes students don't do well bc in some assessments, the expectations and requirements are unclear (e.g. things like speeches) and sometimes, students don't add enough depth to their responses
eyeseeyou
Well-Known Member
Then you can complain to them about this
pikachu975
Premium Member
Well good luck if you do stay in advanced but don't regret your decisions if it doesn't end up working
Do not point out to them in your appeal that they did not give you any prior warning. In my view, they should have had. But, unfortunately, the school/faculty would not appreciate that fact being pointed out.
You may tell them you were shocked (implying you did not expect it) and devastated to be asked to do Standard. And that you are asking for a second chance to make good etc etc. You may express confidence you will do better given the chance and to humbly and politely point out that you have been doing well in your other (by implication, intellectually demanding) subjects (i.e. you are not too dumb to do Advanced). It is possible your English Department may not be aware you are doing quite well in your other subjects; would you expect them to?
You may tell them you were shocked (implying you did not expect it) and devastated to be asked to do Standard. And that you are asking for a second chance to make good etc etc. You may express confidence you will do better given the chance and to humbly and politely point out that you have been doing well in your other (by implication, intellectually demanding) subjects (i.e. you are not too dumb to do Advanced). It is possible your English Department may not be aware you are doing quite well in your other subjects; would you expect them to?
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If I don't point this out, then there won't be anything backing me in my case to stay in Advanced. Why should they be angry at me pointing this out?
It would at least put pressure on them to act and have a discussion about this.
The English faculty is quite oblibvious to know how well I am doing in other subjects, neither would it interest them especially when they are not Arts/Humanities type of subjects where you need to write essays.
I agree with all else that is being said.
pikachu975
Premium Member
Pointing it out to them might think you're trying to have a debate or roast them or something. And if someone said that to me I'd probably write:
"We did not have to warn you about dropping, you should've been wary that you weren't performing up to par and done something about it" or something along those lines. And doing well in maths and science won't reinforce your argument about english since they aren't related.
I can only give you ideas to help you. Which part you consider appropriate to incorporate is up to you. I have done more than my fair share to help you.
Unfortunately, diplomacy is one of life's most important survival skills.
Unfortunately, diplomacy is one of life's most important survival skills.
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I am grateful for your help.
The problem is that pointing out that you weren't given an explicit notice makes them think you only care because you're being moved to standard. They might think - if this person's low marks weren't enough motivation to do better during the year, why should we give them a chance?
As for point two, unfortunately you don't have much else to say...
I don't know what they considered low marks. They said in the letter they sent they don't think I would be able to pass the HSC requirements for Advanced English. In terms of failing I believe I would have gotten an E at least for Advanced in my ROSA but in fact I didn't I got a C. Like my high points were getting 14/15 for my Creative and 17/20 for my Speech on King Leah.
I infact never thought I was doing that bad to be put in such a position to drop to Standard. I thought the whole time I was doing just okay.