Petitions - can they change the world? (1 Viewer)

[Generator]

Petitions – can they change the world?

We all know that a local issue can be resolved or brought to a head with a petition, but is that the case with issues played out on the national and/or international stage? Do such petitions carry any weight or are they more about giving people the impression that they are actually making a difference? Can a petition change the world?

Basically, last night I friend and I were asked to sign a ‘Make Poverty History’ petition as we were waiting in the line to get into the stadium to see U2. Whereas others just signed the thing, we both said no and were fortunate enough to be subjected to a bit of a guilt trip after making our positions known (my friend just wouldn’t sign it and I refused on the grounds that I had other social justice priorities and that the petition, though a practical option, would just be ignored given that it doesn’t involve much effort on the part of those providing a signature). As always, I couldn’t help but come up with better arguments after the fact, but such is life.

In a way I guess that it’s an unfortunate fact of life that the humble petition is one of the more practical ‘protest’ tools given that few feel the need to attend rallies and that the idea of writing a letter is no longer in vogue (actually, it is, but in my mind you can hardly call ‘add your name here’ forms letters, can you?). Though many people sign petitions and a number of people take the time to collect signatures or names, I'm of the opinion that the petition itself doesn’t exactly express just how important a particular issue is – did a person sign it because they actually care, or did they sign it because they didn’t want to appear heartless or because they didn’t want to listen to a mini lecture? Also, why didn’t other people sign it? Is it because they truly don’t care, or is it because they do not agree with the idea of a petition in principle, be it on privacy (i.e., email) or utility grounds? There are other reasons, but those are the few that spring to mind at this particular point in time. Though I'm not a fan of the petition, I do think that it’s unfortunate that such scepticism surrounds the petition, especially when it’s a practical way of, at the very least, giving the impression that a large number of people care.

Anyway, that’s enough from me. Anyone else?

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Edit: There's also the online petition, something that I consider to be innovative yet for the most part meaningless.

 

[wuddie]

yea i agree with what you said there, especially the bit about the intention of the people signing the petition.

i suppose a petition will only work if it is well structured and made official to the intended audience (eg politicians), such as the live8 concert where they asked everyone to go on the net and put their names down, that itself is a form of petition. i am not exactly sure if it successfully convinced the 8 men it supposed to (if someone can update me on that), but you can be sure as hell that it raise public awareness to 1 billion people around the world.

besides that, i generally dont think petitions have much of a say in terms of getting the organisers what they wanted. how often do you see a petition turns into reality in your school or local community? like generator said, it only shows that a large number of people have signed a paper - doesnt really show the extend of their approval.

 

[cerpin taxt]

hostages > petitions

terrorists know where it's at when it comes to publicity

 

[_dhj_]

Indeed.

Revolutions are also an effective way of changing the world.

 

[Serius]

petitions except in your local community dont do jack. These international issues petitions are the biggest joke. "no war" petitions are the worst. Do these people honnestly think that the people in power are going to war for no reason? or perhaps that the reason is so weak that a peice of paper is going to change their minds?

Shit is done for a reason, usually a pretty good one. The only way a petition is going to make a difference is when a significant voting percentage of your community signs it over an issue where community approval matters e.g building a new church instead of fixing the black spots in the princes highway.

 

[P_Dilemma]

The world is doomed. Petitions will not change that.

-P_D

 

[spell check]

if enough people legitimately signed on then of course they would work

that is the basis of democracy after all

 

[Serius]

we dont have democracy... we have representative democracy. People are not going to vote someone out based on something small like eco concerns or poverty in africa, because theres a whole miasma of issues that each representative stands for.

 

[dagwoman]

No. All the petitions and the protesting in the world will barely change a thing.

This may be the case for petitions, but certainly not for protesting. For example, the Women's Liberation Movement.

 

[Raginsheep]

Protesting only works if you have the implicit support of the voting public at large.

The only protesting I see now days is by idiots who seem to do a better job shooting themselves in the foot than their opposition could ever hope for.

As far as I can see, at the present, the use of petitions and protesting to challenge political issues is largely useless and self-harming.

 

[_dhj_]

Protesting only works if you have the implicit support of the voting public at large.

The only protesting I see now days is by idiots who seem to do a better job shooting themselves in the foot than their opposition could ever hope for.

I think you only see it this way because:

a: you don't agree with the political objectives of the protesters who are "idiots".

b: you assume that your views are shared by that of the voting public.

 

[Raginsheep]

Lets take the example of the Critical Mass protests: Sure have the driving public support your cause by pissing them off as much as possible.

The aim of alot of protesting is to:
a) tap into the underlying sympathies in the general public or
b) piss them off so they decide to do something about it themselves.

The problem is that most people today find it much easier to complain about the protesters especially if it would otherwise have minimal impact on their own lives. By protesting, the protesters seem to harm only their own positions.

I think you only see it this way because:

a: you don't agree with the political objectives of the protesters who are "idiots".

b: you assume that your views are shared by that of the voting public.

I was against the Iraq war as were others such as the Social Alliance. Personally I think the way they protested only damaged the anti-war argument. My own political opinions have no/very little baring on this. I try to keep them to myself when not required nor relevant.

 

[breaking]

jorje bush: LOL LETS WAGE WAR ON TEH INFIDELS!
angry lefties: *hands over petition* NO WAR! NO WAR!
jorje bush: OH OKAY LOL NO WAR. PEACEOEARTH4LYF!

 

[_dhj_]

Lets take the example of the Critical Mass protests: Sure have the driving public support your cause by pissing them off as much as possible.

The aim of alot of protesting is to:
a) tap into the underlying sympathies in the general public or
b) piss them off so they decide to do something about it themselves.

The problem is that most people today find it much easier to complain about the protesters especially if it would otherwise have minimal impact on their own lives. By protesting, the protesters seem to harm only their own positions.

I was against the Iraq war as were others such as the Social Alliance. Personally I think the way they protested only damaged the anti-war argument. My own political opinions have no/very little baring on this. I try to keep them to myself when not required nor relevant.

The adverse effects of protests arise solely due to the insult they inflict on the apathetic masses. That insult is the notion that people who care beyond the issues of interest rates and oil prices exist in the world, that there are people who believe in causes however futile and are willing to fight for them in some way.

 

[Iron]

The adverse effects of protests arise solely due to the insult they inflict on the apathetic masses. That insult is the notion that people who care beyond the issues of interest rates and oil prices exist in the world, that there are people who believe in causes however futile and are willing to fight for them in some way.

Haha, I like that.

Petitions can be very useful. In some countries, like Switzerland, a petition of50,000 sigs is enough to trigger a constitutional referendum I think.
But the assumption of the petition is that people know shit, and I disagree. I think the majority are apathetic and sheep like, and will sign such things at a Bono concert if it will avoid them minor scrutiny.

An intellectual elite, like judges or attractive politicians, know what's in the public interest more than a handful of dullards dubiously coerced into normative/subjective schemes through guilt and propaganda.

 

[loquasagacious]

Haha, I like that.

Petitions can be very useful. In some countries, like Switzerland, a petition of50,000 sigs is enough to trigger a constitutional referendum I think.
But the assumption of the petition is that people know shit, and I disagree. I think the majority are apathetic and sheep like, and will sign such things at a Bono concert if it will avoid them minor scrutiny.

An intellectual elite, like judges or attractive politicians, know what's in the public interest more than a handful of dullards dubiously coerced into normative/subjective schemes through guilt and propaganda.

Hoorah, finally someone has recognised the basic facts....

More seriously though I think petitions are useless for two interwoven reasons:

-They are ignored by politicians
-The people who sign them in large masses do not have a real commitment to the cause, at best they are signing as a limited expression of their feelings at worst to avoid being called a niger hating fascist. Petitions do not reflect how people vote.

So what of the protest groups? They must be either:
-Ignorant of the futility of petitions and some kind of grassroots politics idealist, or;
-They no that petitions are useless for their stated purpose however they serve a second more useful purpose.

For some examples of the second case:
-By monitoring the number of petition signatures a group can evaluate how well they are getting their message across eg numbers up good job, numbers down bad job.
-They frequently require an address this can be used to determine in which areas the message is best recieved and thus which areas to ignore and which to focus on.
-Also having address' (physical of email) means the group can email you and try and get you involved.
-With some guesswork they could derive the appeal to men v women and to varying ethnic groups.

Afterall petitions are data, apply some statistics to data and you can find out all kinds of interesting things. On the other hand the mental abilities of most left-wing fleabags has been questioned many times, and their lack of mathematical know-how is clearly expressed by their communist leanings so its entirely possible that they just dont know how to do any of the above....