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Practicing Law Overseas (1 Viewer)

frankyd

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I was wondering what opportunities are available (post-grad obviously) for someone to practice Law overseas after obtaining a degree in Australia.

I know that firms like Blake Dawson Waldon have London offices, and I was wondering how that would work out seen as though (as far as I know) Australian Law Degrees are not recognised for actual practice overseas.

Also, does anyone know anything about the International Law Degree offered by Oxford university for Post-graduates?
 

c_james

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Apparently New York has good opportunities for Australian graduates. I received an email recently which pegged starting salaries over there at USD$145,000 a year. That's not to say the work will be stimulating, though.

As for Oxford - I believe you're referring to the BCL (Bachelor in Civil Laws)? I don't think there's a specific postgrad degree in international law, although there is an MPhil in International Relations and Politics.
 

turtleface

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c_james said:
Apparently New York has good opportunities for Australian graduates. I received an email recently which pegged starting salaries over there at USD$145,000 a year. That's not to say the work will be stimulating, though.
yeah thats a crazy salary eh? One of my law lecturers this semester is an ex-partner from the U.S. and he's like his firm offers USD $150,000 +50,000 sign on bonus (golden handshake).

Excellent considering law grads here get a measley AUD $50-55K (maybe 35K USD?) or so at top firms...
 

c_james

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turtleface said:
yeah thats a crazy salary eh? One of my law lecturers this semester is an ex-partner from the U.S. and he's like his firm offers USD $150,000 +50,000 sign on bonus (golden handshake).

Excellent considering law grads here get a measley AUD $50-55K (maybe 35K USD?) or so at top firms...
Yeah, it'd seem the only real thing of value they ask for in return is a soul :p.
 

dissipate

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is that that NY has good opportunities for australian law graduates? or law graduates from all over the world as long as they're from reputable universities?

and if the former, why does NY like australian law graduates?
 

hfis

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I'd point out that whilst US salaries are much higher, they don't have HECS over there. That, and the cost of living is much higher, especially in New York.

I think I'll still call Australia home when I graduate. Aussies are so laid back, even in the corporate sector - you don't appreciate the Australian sense of humour and manner of 'doing things' until you've experienced just how stuck up a lot of foreigners are.
 

dissipate

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with respect to hfis (and aussies), what you might call laid back, fast-paced nations might think lazy and slow. what you might think sense of humour, others might misinterpret as rudeness. people from every culture have their own way of doing things, and to call foreigners stuck up just because they do things differently to australians, is very...
 
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frankyd said:
I know that firms like Blake Dawson Waldon have London offices, and I was wondering how that would work out seen as though (as far as I know) Australian Law Degrees are not recognised for actual practice overseas.
erm so, can a first-year graduate walk right into a law firm overseas? or do they need additional qualifications before they can begin to practise?
 

c_james

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aodmjgnwpekignw said:
erm so, can a first-year graduate walk right into a law firm overseas? or do they need additional qualifications before they can begin to practise?
The US and UK are both common law countries, and Australian law is littered with precedents originating from the House of Lords (and, to a much lesser extent, US courts) anyway. I'm sure there's some qualification test required, or maybe a six-week bridging course or something, but certainly nothing substantial. A common law lawyer is a fairly adaptable being.
 

katrea

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Hi I'm a long time lurker and wanted to put some questions since I recently finished my VCE exams and thinking a lot of my choices for universities for 2007. I'm not completely clued into the law concept since I used to think that I wanted nothing to do with it only to find out that it was probably the only thing that I wanted to do without whinging. However I'm still completely new to the Law concept overall compared to people who have already researched on it so I really need the help.

Nonetheless working overseas is a large dream of mine, I even asked a careers counsellor about studying overseas and she flat out told me that I'd never be able to and no one is able to. I didn't think much of it afterwards since I had my own problems to deal with but now I still continually think about my aim to study/work overseas.

With that said, what is the best way to approach this? I am only going to Victorian universities so the choices are the general Monash, Deakin, Melbourne.

I actually gravitated to Deakin a bit as it had a compulsory overseas fourth year study and it sounded kind of fun above all. And as well I wanted to combine Law/International Relations so I could try for their 6 month US Congress internship program. And as well I don't really expect to get a clearly in for the law in Melb/Monash so I felt that at least if I entered Deakin there was the stable guarantee that I was studying law. However I am very unsure about their Arts program and I have a really strong concern for the Arts program (I'm not just doing it for the sake of hur hur double degrees). And I really don't want to miss out on what some people got to do with their Arts programs in other places.

Melbourne is pretty much "the" place for all the people who think traditional courses. However I know there are changes on the new program which refuse internal transfers or something like that? I'm not too sure so I'd like to know more about that. Though I have had two older siblings who have been to Melbourne (one graduated, the other is in her third year) and they still feel that it's a bit disappointing since it doesn't really offer any more than any other uni overall. Additionally if there are no internal transfers, I'd rather not do Arts and *then* Law because of the whole lack of HECS in the graduate degrees (I think that's what they said. Please correct me if I'm wrong).

And Monash, I heard that it's easier to do an Arts and transfer into Law. I have a bit of familiarity with the Arts program as I have another sibling (we're a big family) who did Monash Arts. As well I've heard about the Monash humanitarian programs which has me extremely interested. Apart from that it has the run of the mill things and it's hard to deny that Monash Law isn't a terrible choice.

Lastly I did do Enhancement Literature at University of Melbourne which I have been told can count as credits to the completion of my degree in most universities.

Nonetheless I hope you guys can help me in my choices with advice and as well help direct me on how I should choose to study in my degree to help me move towards the international route.
 

Tamazoid

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Another issue related to practising overseas is, do Australian firms recognise and reward overseas experience should one return?
 

Skittled

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c_james said:
Apparently New York has good opportunities for Australian graduates. I received an email recently which pegged starting salaries over there at USD$145,000 a year. That's not to say the work will be stimulating, though.
hfis said:
I'd point out that whilst US salaries are much higher, they don't have HECS over there. That, and the cost of living is much higher, especially in New York.
Exactly. I have a friend who went to an information night for practising at the Bar in NY, and the salary was in the $100K - $150K (USD) area. But, then, on further investigation, as hfis said, the cost of living is very very high (read: extortionate) in NY, to the point where being a graduate in Australia on your 'measly' $30 - $60K is much more attractive. You actually earn more (as a proportion of living) in Australia, than in the US.
 

KFunk

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turtleface said:
Excellent considering law grads here get a measley AUD $50-55K (maybe 35K USD?) or so at top firms...
Measley?
 

velox

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Everyone is comparing salaries to countries where the living cost is higher, or where its near impossible to get those jobs. How are you going to compete with HYPS grads in america for law? Australia is a 2nd rate country in education compared with the US and the UK.

Secondly why does everyone compare grad salaries with IBanks? Not everyone wants to work 100+ hours a week doing a job a good salesperson could do just as well.

Btw top tier firms for law in australia offer 80k for grads. Expect long hours though. (I think it was Mallesons (sp?) that were offering that kind of remuneration).
 

velox

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katrea said:
Hi I'm a long time lurker and wanted to put some questions since I recently finished my VCE exams and thinking a lot of my choices for universities for 2007. I'm not completely clued into the law concept since I used to think that I wanted nothing to do with it only to find out that it was probably the only thing that I wanted to do without whinging. However I'm still completely new to the Law concept overall compared to people who have already researched on it so I really need the help.

Nonetheless working overseas is a large dream of mine, I even asked a careers counsellor about studying overseas and she flat out told me that I'd never be able to and no one is able to. I didn't think much of it afterwards since I had my own problems to deal with but now I still continually think about my aim to study/work overseas.

With that said, what is the best way to approach this? I am only going to Victorian universities so the choices are the general Monash, Deakin, Melbourne.

I actually gravitated to Deakin a bit as it had a compulsory overseas fourth year study and it sounded kind of fun above all. And as well I wanted to combine Law/International Relations so I could try for their 6 month US Congress internship program. And as well I don't really expect to get a clearly in for the law in Melb/Monash so I felt that at least if I entered Deakin there was the stable guarantee that I was studying law. However I am very unsure about their Arts program and I have a really strong concern for the Arts program (I'm not just doing it for the sake of hur hur double degrees). And I really don't want to miss out on what some people got to do with their Arts programs in other places.

Melbourne is pretty much "the" place for all the people who think traditional courses. However I know there are changes on the new program which refuse internal transfers or something like that? I'm not too sure so I'd like to know more about that. Though I have had two older siblings who have been to Melbourne (one graduated, the other is in her third year) and they still feel that it's a bit disappointing since it doesn't really offer any more than any other uni overall. Additionally if there are no internal transfers, I'd rather not do Arts and *then* Law because of the whole lack of HECS in the graduate degrees (I think that's what they said. Please correct me if I'm wrong).

And Monash, I heard that it's easier to do an Arts and transfer into Law. I have a bit of familiarity with the Arts program as I have another sibling (we're a big family) who did Monash Arts. As well I've heard about the Monash humanitarian programs which has me extremely interested. Apart from that it has the run of the mill things and it's hard to deny that Monash Law isn't a terrible choice.

Lastly I did do Enhancement Literature at University of Melbourne which I have been told can count as credits to the completion of my degree in most universities.

Nonetheless I hope you guys can help me in my choices with advice and as well help direct me on how I should choose to study in my degree to help me move towards the international route.

You get 7 years of HECS. (or SLE as you call it officially). For grad medicine, the amount of SLE you have left doesnt matter. You still pay normal hecs fees (~9k). Not sure what it is like for law.
 

katrea

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velox said:
You get 7 years of HECS. (or SLE as you call it officially). For grad medicine, the amount of SLE you have left doesnt matter. You still pay normal hecs fees (~9k). Not sure what it is like for law.
Really? I thought it was limited to what they offer. Nonetheless I'll try to ring them up one day (one day might not be anytime soon) about it.
 

Tamazoid

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Tamazoid said:
Another issue related to practising overseas is, do Australian firms recognise and reward overseas experience should one return?
Anyone?
 

BillytheFIsh

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It's like anything - if it's good experience then they will recognise and reward it. If it's questionable experience, then probably notso.

Although as a general rule, it would be looked upon favourably as it hass given you a chance to expand your experience base and broaden your horizons. Overseas firms (as a massive generalisation) would also work you harder so it's likely aussie firms would see it as a testament to your work ethic, particularly if it's with a recognised firm.
 

Frigid

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velox said:
Getting top tier in another country is very hard. Australian degrees aren't as recognised as others.
except in Hong Kong. if you've got an Australian LLB and you have some grasp of Chinese, you're in demand (links here, herehttp://www.lawyersweekly.com.au/articles/8C/0C02F48C.asp?Type=53&Category=853 and herehttp://www.lawyersweekly.com.au/articles/fc/0c01a3fc.asp).

Although our degrees aren't as highly-regarded as UK institutions, we've got more Chinese-speaking law students here. MC and City firms have been recruiting from UNSW/USyd/UMelb/Monash for quite some time.

btw, apparently Mallesons has a decent HK office (esp in construction). Minters/AAR not so.
 
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