really want to be actuary, need your advice (1 Viewer)

[lifesucks]

first of all, sorry for creating a new threat for my very specific question. your help is really, really appreciated.

From the open day at maq, i gathered that actury is a competitive field and most people do double degrees to increase their chances.

My dilema: I got myself a nice part time job at a bank for next year, which rules out any double degree. So would I stand a chance with just a simple, 3 year acturial degree? (I understand work experience counts in this industry)

Oh, and is it even possible to work 20 hours a week plus study full time? or should I settle for just BCom?

I'm mathematically inclined, and ranked top in my school, so I think I can do well in actuarial studies.

 

[jake2.0]

Yea you're right, it is highly competitive.

Note that in the first year that all the people who do double degree do the same subjects as the single degree people (excpet for the comp and law double). Even then first year is pretty loaded so it'd be hard to do a part time job, in first year you're going to uni everyday for 3-4 hours at the least.

Here is a link which shows the subjects the different degrees comprise of
http://www.efs.mq.edu.au/?a=15365

 

[dracover]

20 hrs a week i say for the first year maybe u can handle it if u have no social life.

second year plan to not get exemptions.

3rd year well u kno whow it goes.


as far as degrees are concerned a double degree gives people competitive advantage imo because most jobs out there are non actuarial jobs. if u look at the all the grad positions out there very few are for acturies in say insurance or super funds (i got a grad at amp in finance and from wat i gather amp, one of the largest insurance and super firms in australia if not the largest hasnt accepted an actuarial grad in the actuarial department in a good 5 years). yes there are say investment companies or consulting firms looking for acturies but mostly they onli need someone will the skills cause it helps and its not really an actuaial job so a double would help especially say its e.g. a financial consulting firm.

also if u are looking at getting one of those few truly actuarial positions then i would think of it this way. theres 150 grads from maq. probably another 100 from unsw. 150 from anu. 150 from melbourne uni. thats 550 to 600 grads every year. ok maybe 1/2 will say go over seas or do other stuff like they leave actuary cause they hate it (like me lol). then theres still 300 pplz left to compete for those 5-20 positions. so unless ur gpa remains from like 3.75 - 4 then u got no chance.

 

[lifesucks]

sigh, thanks for all the advice!!! great help, really.

bit sad i guess, cos its always been my dream.

so Bcom then, I'll probably aim for that finance sector as well, dracover.

again, appreciate you guys' time!

 

[Supra]

hmm you seem uncertain now. What I suggest is if you have that little bit of doubt, do BCom (actuarial) at NSW, work part time for the bank (working whilst at uni is awesome) and if you cant handle it just switch to BCom (Fin).

Double degree would be hard if you work as well...

 

[slix_88]

This reply may be a little late...

I just completed my first year @ maq uni doing the ACST/SCI(Math) double degree program (going to change B Sci to B App Fin). First semester should be ok, but it depends wholly on your ability to achieve many things at once.

I for one had 2 part time jobs (full time weekends and casual weekdays) for the first semester and got through with HD D D CR as my scores...which came to me as a surprise. I know many many others who had no jobs during the semester and failed one subject or just got passes.

Come second semester, i was forced to quit my full time weekend job to concentrate more on studies. 2nd sem under the usual program has 5 subjects with at least 2 of them requiring sheer effort to succeed. I even called holiday on my one job 4 weeks prior to end of year examinations due to workload.

Always attempt the highest...if in doubt, most of the first year subjects are "universal" which are mandatory with other related subjects E.G. Economics, Finance.

All the best in your studies

 

[hello2004]

I've completed 3 years and this last semester was completely fucked in terms of the sheer amount of work we had to do. The first 2.5 years were pretty good though but still required a lot of work.

 

[dracover]

well theres more then 100 people sitting in my classes and i mean acst 300 and 400 lvl classes. i dont know any exact figures but just from class no. i expect there to be more then 100 a yr honestly 400lvl acst is rather straight forward i doubt many people if any will need to repeat it. i know for a fact there were 160~180 in my first yr (it was 165 at the start but people transfered in 1/2 way through so exact no.s for first yr i donno).

also i did make the note of like say 1/2 the people dont pursue actuarial careers.

on ur point of jobs. i was looking for actuarial positions this yr and there were very few. i suppose it depends on ur definition of wat is an actuarial job. i'm not including jobs that just say that actuarial grads are one of the suitable candiates those jobs will accept finance students, math majors etc mostly not "actuarial" like i said before they prefer u did actuary and maybe even let u study for ur part 3s doesnt mean its an actual actuarial job a lot of it is consulting and stuff where u dont do the real stuff its more just a need for an understanding to get the rest. and as far as non grad jobs are concerned, i havent heard of anyone in my yr get one. from wat i've seen most require experience in the area of some sort and would be hard for a uni grad to get though i agree not impossible.

the gpa for actuarial positions all u have to do is look at jobs advertised through uni and stuff to the students. they all have at least a 3.5gpa min requirement to even apply (again i'm talking about the real actuarial jobs). so if ur sittin on 3.5 ur nothing special on the contrary ur at the bottom of the pile. as bad as that sounds u are, and the chances of getting an interview are quite slim i wont go through my own experiences this yr but its very obvious and clear to me that the gpa for actuarial jobs are important.

 

[CloudStrife]

I agree if you have doubts about becoming an actuary, go UNSW. they have more options if you decide to do something else. Double degree is good in that you can have broader options. But all depending on where you want to head.
Also look up on what an actuary does as part of their jobs. See if its something you'd want to do day in day out.

 

[hello2004]

As for GPA, I can tell you that students who have missed exemptions and who have GPAs below 3.5 (and I mean, really, below 3.5) have been offered actuarial vacation positions with large actuarial consultancies

I would like to support this point. I know of people who have made it to final round vacation interviews over their colleagues who have far far superior GPAs.

This year I realised how overrated the GPA really is. IMO it gets you a first round interview (although in some cases not!) but little else.

 

[dracover]

If people study Part II externally through IAAust, they do so via Macq. So a fair number in ACST400/401 are already working. In 2006, I remember noticing many unfamiliar faces in those subjects, compared to first year actuarial and 200/300 level repeaters. You also have students taking Masters having completed studies elsewhere. So my point is 550 to 600 actuarial graduates is over the top. An upper limit of 300 is more sensible, if not still high.

In 2006, the larger consultancies alone (eg. Deloitte, EY, Finity, KPMG, Mercer, PwC, TF, Tillinghast) took in well over 25 actuarial graduates in traditional actuarial positions (only thinking of general and life insurance and superannuation here). As for non-consultancies, there were plenty more actuarial positions. For example, I remember Zurich recruiting 6 actuarial graduates in my year. So I find it surprising that you could only identify 5 to 20 actuarial positions.

In short, to claim that there are 550 to 600 actuarial graduates and only 5 to 20 traditional actuarial positions is more than stretching it.

As for GPA, I can tell you that students who have missed exemptions and who have GPAs below 3.5 (and I mean, really, below 3.5) have been offered actuarial vacation positions with large actuarial consultancies. In my opinion, being offered actuarial vacation positions is tougher than graduate positions. I can also tell you that students who have missed one or more exemptions have been offered actuarial positions. I actually think exemptions are more important and relevant than GPAs, because GPAs can be manipulated (ie. take some easy electives). You may still be invited to interviews if you miss exemptions and have a GPA below 3.5 so long as your application stands out (in a position manner). After they let you through the door for an interview, it's up to applicant of course...

And just because a company doesn't advertise actuarial positions (eg. at Macq, on their website, etc.), it doesn't mean an actuarial position in their team doesn't exist. Finally there are people in my year who started out in a non-actuarial position but transfered after a short period of time (ie. less than a few months).

In short, an actuarial position isn't easy but it isn't as impossible as you make it out to be.

that might be true for your yeat but definetely not for mine. pwc was the onli one from my knowledge that took anything substantial and that was 5 off the top of my head. many of the others some who came to give presentations at careers events and such had even stricter requirement (what they call +s, i interpret them as if u dont have them ur chances are low) they include like studying comp, one i rem specifically was QED just to use an example and they only took 1 or 2 from memory. my point is even if we take ur figure of 300. we half it say we get left with 150 keen students. i would say there definetly isnt even 75 positions for any given year. i've heard this from numerous sources (recent past students) as well aspeople i work with now since i am in the insurance industry. there just isnt the demand there was even a yr or 2 ago and unfortunately even into the future. the onli reason i can think that in ur yr there was still ok demand especially from like kpmg and ey etc was the they were opening new offices and required a sudden increase in staff numbers (this is sourced from 2 people working within big 4 should be accurate) so it would be a one off (i had other friends graduating a yr or 2 before this yr i assume around ur year and they're telling me similar stories).


and with reference to the original post, if he intended to work substantial hrs, even holding gpa of 3 would be difficult and really i cant c anyone with gpa less then 3 having a big chance in real actuarial work. i've known plenty of people missing exemptions, their gpa is always around or above 3 either way. for most actuaries, the top or the bottom usually they all do very well for other courses pushing gpa up. a few missed exemptions mean nothing as far as gpa is concerned. just because 1 or 2 even a hand full with low gpas get jobs doesnt mean on the whole its useful. honestly those with the low gpas usually will have some extrodinary extra cirricula activities (though admitedly knowing most actuaries making ur extra cirricula stuff look good isnt that hard their all a pretty boring bunch. i thought i did little wen i was writting ym resume but compared so some others goshh lol).

also a final thing to consider or maybe u already have. i think u should consider outside ur group of friends. i mean if i considered just my circle theres 100% hit rate on jobs. that doesnt mean anything, peas in a pod as they say. wen i ask out into the wider student population its more common then not that they either dont have a job or work in a non traditional actuarial field.

 

[jake2.0]

If you were an employer (not necessarily an actuarial one), would you consider someone with no or limited work experience, no or limited extra-curricular activities and relatively weak communication skills? Probably not. And yet, plenty of prospective actuarial graduates fit this description. So why should an actuarial employer demand any less?

By work experience do you mean relevant to the field or just any sort of work (e.g retail...)?

 

[BoganBoy]

i agree with flying on the issue. There are many ACST students who are extremely smart but lack adequate communication skills and character. I think provided you get good grade (3.5 at least) and have some character, your chance of finding an actuarial job is not too slim. even if you dont, there are plenty of non traditional jobs out there. i for one, would like to be on the trading floor if IBs.

 

[dracover]

I can't remember either "KPMG and EY etc." opening new offices. In fact, the only company which has grown significantly is Quantium and I wouldn't classify them as "traditional actuarial" (although they do do GI pricing). So I doubt my year was a one-off.

While I can see the merits of combining actuarial with computing, I doubt it matters that much. Unless your company is developing actuarial software (there are few but not most), to restrict yourself to actuarial/computing graduates is stupid especially since most students do actuarial/applied finance.

Also speakers at career events typically describe their ideal graduate (ie. top grades, relevant work experience, extra-curricular activities, communication skills etc). Not every company is going to be able to recruit their ideal graduate. You would not want to work for a company which recruited anyone they could find off the streets.

My estimate of 300 is an upper limit (as noted above). Furthermore, my estimates for Macq and UNSW were 100 and 50 ie. NSW total 150 (as noted above). This implies that ANU, Melbourne and Curtin make up 150, which seems high. I still believe there are more than 20 (your max) graduate/entry level traditional actuarial positions per year. I would say at least 40 in NSW; even more if you include less traditional actuarial positions eg. health insurance and Quantium. I was told about 50 by an actuarial recruiter during my year.

Of the 150, many will graduate with poor grades eg. missing multiple exemptions. Also many of the top (by choice) and bottom students (not by choice) will pursue non-actuarial careers. Others will struggle finding jobs in general eg. due to poor communication skills which is not uncommon for actuarial students. If we take out these students, you don't necessarily have such a large pool to choose from.

If I think about the top students in my year (both by grade, work experience, extra curricular activities, communication skills etc.), they all found work very easily (multiple offers were not uncommon). But if I think about the bottom students (by similar criteria as above), I really don't know what happened to them. But I would argue that they would struggle to find jobs in general. So thinking of the wider student population is helpful, but not that insightful.

If you were an employer (not necessarily an actuarial one), would you consider someone with no or limited work experience, no or limited extra-curricular activities and relatively weak communication skills? Probably not. And yet, plenty of prospective actuarial graduates fit this description. So why should an actuarial employer demand any less?

i'm just gonna stop the debate on job no.s cause obviously our ideas is different. i have my sources u have urs and we'll both think we're rite no point debating that.

as far as the rest of that. ur assuming the person in the original post is a top notch student. his goona get top grades, have excellent communication skills and the like. i hope u got out of acst the idea of expected value cause without knowing anything about him anyone should onli be able to make comments on the average. like u say in ur own post people with good grades good communication skills will get jobs anyways wats the point of debating them?

if we look at an average its not easy. sure he could be top notch have everything an employer wants and get a job. by the same token he could be bad so telling them its easy for a top notch student with all the skills isnt useful in anyway.


also multiple offers are common in my yr also. but not in actuarial field. ur general comments of plenty of jobs isnt wrong i agree. but the orgianl poster is interested in being an actuary. we're talking about actuarial jobs. a job that lets u study ur part 3 doesnt make it an actuarial job i mean i can study part 3 i dont think mine is actuarial.


boganby: if u read my post i did say u need around a 3.5 so ur actually agreeing with me.



in general also good character, verbal skills etc wateva u want to call it, i'll say this. i work with actuaries who work in the traditional areas. they are the most boring bunch of *&#@ that u could imagine. so honestly i donno how much they realli care about that sort of thing that much. maybe my idea of fun carefree collegues like those in my team are different to urs.

 

[avatar_karma]

actuarial studies is hard. im in my first year. work 20 hours a week. have a high maintence gf (not joking at all) but i still manage to do ok, but definatly not top notch. always been my dream to be an actuary. so im going to do it no matter how long it takes. stick at it.

im doing double degree accounting & actuarial. it is very very convient to know that if i don't become an actuary ill always be an accountant.

as for the numbers. there were just over 160 people in math133 and there not all actuarial students. and thats only a first year subject, people have another 2 year of part 1 to go at least.
so in my opinion there would be around 70 graduating from mac every year ABSOLUTE MAX.

 

[aja152]

I agree if you have doubts about becoming an actuary, go UNSW. they have more options if you decide to do something else. Double degree is good in that you can have broader options. But all depending on where you want to head.
Also look up on what an actuary does as part of their jobs. See if its something you'd want to do day in day out.

so what double degree would you guys recommend?????
does science (computer science) sound okay?