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UN envoy hits Israel 'apartheid' (1 Viewer)

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JaredR

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In withdrawing from the Gaza Strip in a sincere effort of peace and co-existence, the State of Israel put at great risk it's own security, it led the door open for Islamic Extremist infactions to breed their messages of hatred more covertly than when Israeli nationals were present.

Israel could remove dozens of Jewish settlements from the West Bank, Vice Premier Shimon Peres told Channel Two television on Saturday, but warned that "not all the settlements, and I'm not even sure most of the settlements," would be evacuated.

The number of settlements evacuated could be in the dozens, he said. "I think that a serious effort will be made to do that which we undertook to do, which is removing settlements."

Israel quit the Gaza Strip unilaterally in 2005 but shelved plans for West Bank pullouts after last year's Lebanon war. Many Israelis oppose removals for fear of bolstering Hamas, the governing Palestinian faction.

Asked if the Palestinian government could hold talks with Israel on the settlement evacuations and thus affect their scale and pace, Peres said: "If Hamas is willing to negotiate, recognize Israel and achieve peace, then definitely, yes.

"We will implement [the pullout] according to actions" by the Palestinian government, said Peres, senior deputy to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

Olmert's ability to carry out a major West Bank withdrawal over the objections of pro-settler Israelis is in doubt, given his plummeting popularity since the July-August war with Lebanese Hezbollah guerrillas.

But Hamas leaders have offered a long-term truce with Israel in return for a viable Palestinian state alongside it.

The Islamist group last month signed a power-sharing deal with the more moderate Fatah faction in the hope of winning Western approval.

The Quartet of Middle East peace negotiators, the United Nations, the United States, Russia and the European Union, has said it awaits word on the diplomatic platform of the planned Hamas-Fatah coalition government, and for now is maintaining a Western aid embargo imposed on the Palestinians after Hamas took power
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/832729.html
 

HotShot

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"Whatever laws Jenzipoo is reffering too."" Where as with Israel the government continues to disregard UN Law" YOU keep referring to these laws, so while she brought them up, YOU use them as part of your argument. I want YOU to tell me what these laws are so that I know that YOU are talking about actual UN laws.
I gave you a few links that refers to UN LAWs that have been violated and the inhumane acts committed by Israel.
You are clearly sidestepping the issue. YOU are the one condeming Israel. YOU believe YOU have a justification for this. In following this justification where you are against "inhumane" institutions, surely if you are ready to criticise a country where a government will do nothing (considering there is something to do), how much more so should you criticise an institutionalised problem where despite government intervention, that you speak of, this problem is still evident.
I have already justified Israel's condemnation :rofl: You have yet to prove otherwise. You havent provided anything against my views or showing Israel hasnt comitted these war crimes or inhumane activities. Or that they have done anything in the past to work towards a solution.
I understand the title. The UN has made a link between inhumane activities in South Africa with Israel to further demonstrate the inhumane actions of Israel. You condemn Israel for these actions, that is why you are writing on this thread. Clearly you feel strongly about the country commiting these inhumane actions and you are against it. If you do not have any other bias against Israel then you are against it for these reasons alone - inhumanity. Therefore you would be against all kinds of inhumane treatment. But you have just identified that "People already accept the fact that those countries have organisations that are inhumane". Now that demonstrates a breakdown in your reasoning because these issues are still evident and yet you accept them in countries besides Israel?
LOL AS I said this thread is titled "UN envoy hits Israel 'apartheid'" So if I want to talk about Inhumane activity in general then I will create a thread on it, or if you want to then create one thread. In that thread I will condemn inhumane activities. But in this thread It is about specifically about ISrael and its inhumane activites


Clearly your sole reason of condemnation is not that Israel's actions are inhumane and mimic apartheid otherwise you would condemn actions similar to apartheid across the global spectrum. You have not done this. But you continue to refer to Israel as an "inhumane terrorist organistion". From the very use of "terrorist" this signifies something more in your condemnation of Israel. So I ask again: "what have you really got against Israel?

As above, I will compared Israel to a terrorist organisation - and they are very similar.

In the above you have not said anything about why Israel has committed these acts, or even commented on them. Instead you question 'Why Am I talking about Israel? - dude thats what this thread is about. Its not about inhumane activities or about the middle - east or about global Issues. Its about Israel specifically.

the only responsibility israel has is to defend itself, and for a country that has to do it on a daily basis it does a damn good job.
No its not, its more than that. Israel isnt under threat from any country to be honest - it just makes these bullshit excuses to cover up its actions. It if really wants security then it would try and establish stability in the region, but it refuses to do so.

the only thing israel has else to offer is land for peace but when youre dealing with a terrorist organisation that refuses to recognise your right to exist and wont accept part of the land, only the land in whole, that tool becomes meaningless.
the war in Lebanon is a totally different aside issue - address the issue or be specific in your question before i prove you wrong there too.
Why should a terrorist organisation recognise Israel? after all they are a terrorist organisation. Otherwise they wouldnt be called one would they lol?
Israel doesnt recognise them either so why should they recognise Israel?
The war Lebanon was the most recent major conflict which drew a lot international condemnation and is completely relevent to Israel and its violation of UN LAWs.

How can you say Saudi Arabia isnt looked highly upon within the region?? what basis do you have. as for iran it clearly does not deter them from voicing their opinion or providing terrorist organisations with millions of dollars each year in the effort to spread islam and take over the land they call palestine, away from the jews.
Saudi Arabi isnt highly looked upon at all globally. Its relations with fellow middle easstern counterparts are poor and the Americans dont like them very much nor does anyone else. The only reason that they are able to survive is because of the oil.BUt oil wont last forever.

Voicing their opinion is very easy to do, you dont need to be highly 'looked upon'. The only reason its attract attention is because of the media and Americas continual portrayal Of Iran as a threat.
srael has firstly a responsibility to its people and then to the region. at the moment all its efforts are being channelled towards its people.
Sure, sure I mean yeah if bring stability to the region first - then people wont have to worry about anything. But now the people are worried about everything.
Excuses..
how can you question the mossad..each country has its own undercover intellgience agency, israel's just needs to be ahead of the game - and they are.
Just cause every country has Intelligence Agency doesnt mean that they are all good. Most undercover agencies are bad and Israel's is particularly bad in terms of what is has committed and kept hidden from Israelies and the world.
what extreme views?? the government currently in place can neither be considered left or right wing?? the likkud party was created by ariel sharon with more centralist views!! how is that extreme??
Extreme views doesnt necessarily mean left or right wing? It means the actions the government has taken. Isnt it extreme to wipe out Southern Lebanon for 2 kidnapped soldiers. How can you justify that?

even the most left wing person could tell you that!
You didnt answer the question. How is the UN biased? I think you need to understand the role of the UN before you answer the question
The United Nations (U.N.) is an international organization whose stated aims are to facilitate co-operation in international law, international security, economic development, social progress and human rights issues. It was founded in 1945 at the signing of the United Nations Charter by 50 countries, replacing the League of Nations, founded in 1919.
its an International organisation it has no room for BIAS bitch!.
 

JaredR

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No its not, its more than that. Israel isnt under threat from any country to be honest - it just makes these bullshit excuses to cover up its actions. It if really wants security then it would try and establish stability in the region, but it refuses to do so.
Okay you just lost all credibility. How can you say that Israel is not under threat from any country? The only peace treaties in the middle east that exist with Israel are from Jordan and Egypt. Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Saudi Arabia and Iran are all in effect at war with Israel. Israeli citizens are prohibited from visiting their countries; Israel s not recognised by these natins and there is a constant desire to destroy Israel.

Have you not read the comments made by Iran that the State of Israel be wiped from the map?

Israel makes consistent attempts to establish stability in the region. It attempts to create dialogue between itself and opposing countries however to no avail. It has succeeded in making peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan.

I don't know where you get your information from but what you have just said is absolutely undeniably rediculous!

Long live the State of Israel!
 

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JaredR said:
Okay you just lost all credibility. How can you say that Israel is not under threat from any country? The only peace treaties in the middle east that exist with Israel are from Jordan and Egypt. Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Saudi Arabia and Iran are all in effect at war with Israel. Israeli citizens are prohibited from visiting their countries; Israel s not recognised by these natins and there is a constant desire to destroy Israel.
Just because a country doesnt have peace treat with another doesnt mean it is immedialtely at war with it.
When was the last time Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Saudi Arabia and Iran attacked Israel?
Desire to destroy Israel is a simple political tool to keep support within the country.
Have you not read the comments made by Iran that the State of Israel be wiped from the map?
Iran has not taken steps towards Israel being wiped of the map. Israel still exists.
Again political tools to maintain support among Iranians.
Israel makes consistent attempts to establish stability in the region. It attempts to create dialogue between itself and opposing countries however to no avail. It has succeeded in making peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan.
It was actually Jordan that took first steps to recognise Israel. As for Egypt that was result of a war. Israel has never taken first steps towards stability and it has always been the aggressor in recent times.

I don't know where you get your information from but what you have just said is absolutely undeniably rediculous!
I dont know where you got the information from but what you have said is absolutely contributes nothing in this DISCUSSION.
Dude seriously there is no point in wasting time in coming with sentence that says the above, either make some sense and contribute with some valid points unlike
"Long Live Israel" or "You make no sense" either show that ISrael has done something towards peace out of their own will - rather AMerican or Norwegians diplomats arranging meetings.

State of Israel is FUCKED

Contribute or FUCK off jewish cunt.
 

JayB

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actually no, i'm not attempting in any way to discredit the un. just mentioning that there does exist bias within it, for whatever reason.

and jordan, if a majority votes for a terrorist organisation to lead them, doesn't that indicate that the majority support terrorism?
 

JayB

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israel's contribution to peace...

In 1937, the Peel Commission was set up to deal with the land dispute between the Jews and Arabs, coming up with a compromise, which would divide the remaining land on the western side of the Jordan into two independent states. The Jews accepted the plan and the Arabs rejected it.

they gave the sinai to egypt in return for peace.

Treaty of Peace Between the State of Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

repeated offers of land throughout the years, including 91% of the requested land.

what have the palestinians done for peace?
 

JaredR

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Dude seriously there is no point in wasting time in coming with sentence that says the above, either make some sense and contribute with some valid points unlike "Long Live Israel" or "You make no sense"
Ironically in the next breath you say

Contribute or FUCK off jewish cunt.
Do you feel tough being Anti-Semitic in a forum? Why don't you take some of your own advice and contribute with valid points. :)

Whats the point in discussing the State of Israel with an ignorant person like yourself whose mind is made up and who has no intention accepting or even considering healthy debate about Israel.

Atsor ke zehirut!
 

HotShot

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JayB said:
actually no, i'm not attempting in any way to discredit the un. just mentioning that there does exist bias within it, for whatever reason.
What reason exactly is the UN biased? Considering it is committee that is focused on trying to resolve World Issues in variety of manners.

and jordan, if a majority votes for a terrorist organisation to lead them, doesn't that indicate that the majority support terrorism?
This is very important,
Its only from our perspective that whoever the majority voted for (not sure what terrorist group your are talking about but on the general comment) is a terrorist organisation. the people who voted see this organisation in a very different manner. They want results and often these types of groups provide it.

The people could have voted for this organisation for many reasons;
1. They felt this organisations had the power and leadership to achieve the people's goals.
2. Other organisations were not worthy of the vote. Like for eg, Fatah a corrupt faction that basically has achived nothing especially after Gay Arafat died.

israel's contribution to peace...

In 1937, the Peel Commission was set up to deal with the land dispute between the Jews and Arabs, coming up with a compromise, which would divide the remaining land on the western side of the Jordan into two independent states. The Jews accepted the plan and the Arabs rejected it.
they gave the sinai to egypt in return for peace.
Treaty of Peace Between the State of Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.
repeated offers of land throughout the years, including 91% of the requested land.
what have the palestinians done for peace?
The Peel Commission of 1936, formally known as the Palestine Royal Commission, was a British Royal Commission of Inquiry set out to propose changes to the Mandate for Palestine following the outbreak of the 1936-1939 Arab revolt in Palestine. It was headed by Earl Peel.
It was British inquiry, the Israelis had nothing to do with it. And because it was a British Report naturally the Arabs were against it, considering it was British who led to this intial mess in the first place. Also the Jews had mixed reactions to this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peel_Commission
"they gave the sinai to egypt in return for peace." That was after a war, which Israel attacked first.

"The peace treaty was signed sixteen months after Egyptian President Anwar Sadat's visit to Israel in 1978 after intense negotiation. Even after the landmark Camp David agreements, there was no certainty that a treaty would be signed. Egypt was under intense pressure from Arab countries not to sign a separate peace treaty. Prime Minister of Israel Menahem Begin was refusing to allow any framework for realistic negotiations about Palestinian independence for autonomy"
Actually this had nothing to do with Palestinians, and was more Israel and its neighbours. Anyway Israel did not just give the land away - it was an agreement by both sides. It was Anwar Sadat who went to Israel he initiated it and not the Israelis.

Again peace treaty with JOrdan had nothing to do with the Palestinians. And it was brought about Jordan or though mediation from America or Europeans. Not from Israel itself.

Palestinian have done numerous things to achieve peace:
1. They went to the UN through Yasser Arafat.
2. The Intifada - trying to grab the attention of the world on its problems and issues.
3. Remember its a lot harder for Palestinians to actually work towards peace than it is for Israel.

Anyway I agree both parties need to lighten up. It could start with Israel recognising Palestine and continue aid and support for the nation. If Israel is seen helping Palestine that itself would bring support for Israel from Palestinians. Of course hardliners from both sides would oppose it, but its step forward.
 

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"What reason exactly is the UN biased? Considering it is committee that is focused on trying to resolve World Issues in variety of manners."

well considering that im sure blowing yourself up on a bus filled with innocent civilians contravenes the geneva convention, and almost every human right, but i hardly hear any condemnation against it, id say that is an example of UN bias. in fact, not a single UN resolution has gone against palestine. ever!

"Its only from our perspective that whoever the majority voted for (not sure what terrorist group your are talking about but on the general comment) is a terrorist organisation. the people who voted see this organisation in a very different manner. They want results and often these types of groups provide it."

HAMAS is a recognised terrorist group by both the US and Australia, and im gonna assume western countries in general. if you wanna go down the po-mo road of non absolute truths and moral relatavism, then good luck to you, but to me, caling for the genocide of a people means evil. and that is what hamas do. if the majority of palestinians voted for them, then in my eyes, that means that the majority support them, and their views, or dont care about their genocidal tendencies, meaning a disregard for human life.

and you missed my point i think, about my references to the plans i showed you. it wasnt about who brought whom to the table, but that the israelis have put something forward every single time, be it land or whatever, and the palestinians have refused, every time. so what have the palestinians done, but slit their own throats regarding land.

"Palestinian have done numerous things to achieve peace:
1. They went to the UN through Yasser Arafat.
2. The Intifada - trying to grab the attention of the world on its problems and issues.
3. Remember its a lot harder for Palestinians to actually work towards peace than it is for Israel."

like you said, arafat was a pathetic excuse for a leader, and he did fuck all for peace. doesnt count.

the intifada was a terrorist movement. that like saying germany invaded the rhineland for peace. a waste of space on this forum, and an insult to the intelligence of the forum readers.

and i didnt ask the palestinians to achieve anytihng for peace, or to even commit the same as the israelis, i merely asked for one example of the palestinians working towards peace. you have shown none.

Israel does recognize palestine, it just doesnt negotiate with terrorists. to be more specific, HAMAS is a terrorist organisation, or at the very least a blatantly anti-semetic, anti-zionist, anti-israel existance one. would you like me to show you examples of this ideology, or do you accept that?
 

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JayB said:
actually no, i'm not attempting in any way to discredit the un. just mentioning that there does exist bias within it, for whatever reason.

Instead of whinging, why not look at the reasons for the so called "bias".

Maybe its warranted, ever thought of that?


and jordan, if a majority votes for a terrorist organisation to lead them, doesn't that indicate that the majority support terrorism?

They dont see them as a terrorist organisation, thats the point.

They want results, and Fatah wernt delivering
 

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fine, they dont see it as a terrorist organisation. but they do see it as an organisation that promises the eventual death of every jew, everywhere. so then the majority of them support that. do you agree with that definition rather?
 

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JayB said:
fine, they dont see it as a terrorist organisation. but they do see it as an organisation that promises the eventual death of every jew, everywhere. so then the majority of them support that. do you agree with that definition rather?

Well thats not they were campaigning for during the election build up, so no.

They were fed up with Fatah, they wanted change.
 

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the constitution of HAMAS calls for the death of jews and the destruction of israel a ridiculous ammount of times. some quotes...

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory)."

""The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem)."

" In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised."

those are just three. they are not taken out of context, nor are they changed. exact quotes. if thats what's in the constitution thats what they stand for.

if the labour party campaigned on economic reform, but had the death of all aboriginals in its constitution, it would never be allowed to run. why then, should HAMAS be granted any kind of legitimacy. the majority voted for the party that calls for genocide.
 

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Do you really believe that Hamas is capable of wiping out ISrael? and that they will actually go and do it?

If they managed to wipe out jews - dude Palestine will cease to exist lol. Just like Iraq and Afghnistan I guess.

What can UN put against PAlestine? They dont have anything. Everything they have ISrael has control over.
 

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ok, man, missing the point again.

didnt say what HAMAS was capable of, just what they believed in. thei capabilities are not somehting i can judge. but they believe in its destruction, and are doing everything they can to bring it about.

the un can mention the heinous crimes comitted against israelis by palestinians, and condemn them. they can condemn the justification by the arab world that jewish lives are takable for the hell of it. god, they can condemn the suicide bombers at least.
 

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JayB said:
ok, man, missing the point again.

didnt say what HAMAS was capable of, just what they believed in. thei capabilities are not somehting i can judge. but they believe in its destruction, and are doing everything they can to bring it about.

the un can mention the heinous crimes comitted against israelis by palestinians, and condemn them. they can condemn the justification by the arab world that jewish lives are takable for the hell of it. god, they can condemn the suicide bombers at least.
they have condemned the suicide bombers and terrorists - but they cant put a resolution on them because lol they are terrorist groups.

Where as Israel is so-called legitimate government that has these resolutions, but they fail to comply with - thus they are similar to a terrorist organisation.
 

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similar in what way? you've made that claim before, but never substantiated it. its an easy thing to say, much harder to justify.

plus, it may be that i'm not looking hard enough, but i've yet to come across any serious condemation of any palestinian terrorist action. at all.

and they can put sanctions against the arabic nations that call for israel's destruction. which they don't.
 

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and i still want a serious display of palestinian peace-mongering. i have yet to find any.
 

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lol Hotshot is pissed off cause israel kicked arab ass for 50 years, and he is pondering how arabs can defeat israel with no answer in sight. Plus he ran away from the other threat where he claimed USSR gave de facto recognition to Israel on november 1947 , BEFORE there was an israeli government was formed and before they got independence. LOL typical .... :D
 

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JayB said:
ok, man, missing the point again.

didnt say what HAMAS was capable of, just what they believed in. thei capabilities are not somehting i can judge. but they believe in its destruction, and are doing everything they can to bring it about.

the un can mention the heinous crimes comitted against israelis by palestinians, and condemn them. they can condemn the justification by the arab world that jewish lives are takable for the hell of it. god, they can condemn the suicide bombers at least.

People voted for them for what they were campaigning for and they wanted change from Fatah. Its that simple. You're just complicating the issue
 
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