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Kwayera
Passive-aggressive Mod
Not necessarily.
Plz explain.
well, from a logical point of view at least:
either you have belief in a diety, or you do not have belief in a deity (I think an atheist is defined as being a person who is not a theist? note: this is a very broad definition. more narrow ones tend to be used)
either you have belief in a diety, or you do not have belief in a deity (I think an atheist is defined as being a person who is not a theist? note: this is a very broad definition. more narrow ones tend to be used)
The middleground would be believing neither.
the defintion used there of atheist, implies that having no belief makes you an atheist
"strong atheist" tends to be used as a description for someone who denies the exist of a deity
One could still be unsure of what they believe?
well yeah, that's when the lines get blurry
a theist vs. atheist/non-theist division isn't necessarily useful
MissGiggles
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do we really need to consider our ethical beliefs that much? i mean, think about it this way. we were given this real situation in religion last year. a driver in america crashed. i don't remember why and i am not going to dig out my notes.
his legs were trapped by the front of the car. the fuel in the engine had leaked and was now on fire. rescue people were on the way but they can't reach him in time and the witness who saw him couldn't get him out. the flames are getting closer. the driver pulled a gun out of the glovebox (typical American) and handed it to the witness, asking to be shot so he would die quickly.
i already knew on the spot that i would want the person to die quickly, but i could never fire a gun on a living thing. i would run around in circles like a headless chook screaming and hope someone else could fire it.
this comes not from any moral framework, just my personal opinions about life that i learn from my family and teachers. no philosophy necessary for it.
his legs were trapped by the front of the car. the fuel in the engine had leaked and was now on fire. rescue people were on the way but they can't reach him in time and the witness who saw him couldn't get him out. the flames are getting closer. the driver pulled a gun out of the glovebox (typical American) and handed it to the witness, asking to be shot so he would die quickly.
i already knew on the spot that i would want the person to die quickly, but i could never fire a gun on a living thing. i would run around in circles like a headless chook screaming and hope someone else could fire it.
this comes not from any moral framework, just my personal opinions about life that i learn from my family and teachers. no philosophy necessary for it.
what does that have to do with atheism vs. theism, exactly?
MissGiggles
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well someone was complaining they wanted this diverted back to ethical frameworks we atheists use. i'm just saying we all have instincts for what will hurt people and that it doesn't really matter if we don't think deeply about those instincts.
theism
Resident Apologetic
Just thought i'd throw my 2 cents in.
My view point on this discussion is that I am essentially an atheist that sees the universe/everything as his 'religion'. In this I feel I am part of the universe, no different from anything else in any respect, we are one and the same, all coming from the same place/source and made of the same stuff.
Having had this realisation, and the accompanying ones of moral standards irrespective of religion and no longer needing an 'afterlife' due to being a part of the whole picture I am much more at ease in this world.
some of my thoughts on an afterlife:
-there is no 'magical heaven in the sky'
-your ego ends with death, this is what you fear, not the physical process itself: the physical side is natural and the way things are (do you fear wanting to breathe air? no, its a natural process that simply occurs)
-the cells that make up your body are made up of everything else in the universe, including cells that would have been other people at one stage or another (this makes you realise that YOU are NOT your body, don't identify with being your body)
thoughts on moral standards:
-think of myself as a global citizen, see others in the same light
-base morals on being human, not on a structured framework placed in a specific context. morals should be fluid, changing for circumstance but should arise from your being a human and part of the whole.
hope that provokes some thought in some of you out there
My view point on this discussion is that I am essentially an atheist that sees the universe/everything as his 'religion'. In this I feel I am part of the universe, no different from anything else in any respect, we are one and the same, all coming from the same place/source and made of the same stuff.
Having had this realisation, and the accompanying ones of moral standards irrespective of religion and no longer needing an 'afterlife' due to being a part of the whole picture I am much more at ease in this world.
some of my thoughts on an afterlife:
-there is no 'magical heaven in the sky'
-your ego ends with death, this is what you fear, not the physical process itself: the physical side is natural and the way things are (do you fear wanting to breathe air? no, its a natural process that simply occurs)
-the cells that make up your body are made up of everything else in the universe, including cells that would have been other people at one stage or another (this makes you realise that YOU are NOT your body, don't identify with being your body)
thoughts on moral standards:
-think of myself as a global citizen, see others in the same light
-base morals on being human, not on a structured framework placed in a specific context. morals should be fluid, changing for circumstance but should arise from your being a human and part of the whole.
hope that provokes some thought in some of you out there
likingtherain
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I'd go with Apathetic agnosticism. works for me.
access_denied
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I think that's true with many religions. I'm not a Christian, but I am a theist. I consider my religion/its teachings to be perfect (that's me, not everyone, of course) but I see the same things that you have seen (with the people who claim to follow my religion) within the religion you used to belong to (I'm just assuming you did from what you've said).
What I'm trying to say is, humans are flawed and I don't think you can judge a religion by the people who follow it.
I'm not trying to convert you or convince you that God exists, but just giving you a different perspective. Of course, I realise you may have other reasons why you're an atheist that you haven't put down, but that's your business.
theism
Resident Apologetic
sounds to me you were just going through the spiritual motions of christianity. you were either bored in your christian walk, or never even started walking.
Yes.
Chrstian Hypocrisy stinks.
Jesus Christ even acknowledged and rebuked hypocrisy:
Matthew 7:3-5 (New International Version)
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
Yes it stinks.
but don't let them be an example of what God is.
God is the same yesterday, today and forever.
Let the character of Jesus Christ be your wittness, not your hypocritical sunday christian friends.
if you have to choose someone, or a group to be your wittness,
take a look at the african americans.
they were bought from africa to america, to be slaves.
yet they did not let the christian hypocrisy.. their 'white masters', who proclaimed to be christians, to distract them from the character of Jesus Christ.
mcflystargirl
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the sad fact is many people who claim to be christians are complete hypocrites, the thing is this ruins the perception that of the christians who are not.