Group of 8 Unis..what happens if one ranks below 8? (1 Viewer)

[izzy88]

The reason why I 'rate' research output, is because in correlates with good professors, (and in your 3rd and 4th years you can work closely with them, get them to be your 'supervisor' etc), when you realise why there are no nobel prize winners down at East Bundaberg TAFE (..i.e. non go8), you'll understand my point.
Of course other uni's offer a degree of of 'academic rigor', 'facilities', etc..my only point is the go8 uni's will likely offer the highest level.

non-go8 universities are not tafes!

When looking at universities don't look at whether they are the oldest, or part of some group, but at their reputation and teaching in the field you are interested in.

eg. Macquarie University has an extremely good and well respected Ancient History department with leading (ie. good) professors teaching (and researching) in their respective fields.
Why go to go8 university that doesn't offer as much in that field just because it is go8?!

 

[hotdimsim]

when looking at universities don't look at whether they are the oldest, or part of some group, but at their reputation and teaching in the field you are interested in.

+1

 

[Studentleader]

Why go to go8 university that doesn't offer as much in that field just because it is go8?!

How good a certain sector within a university is really only that useful for post-grad degrees, I think people should chose their unis mainly based on the units offered within the degree - if you can get into an interview and show you are excellent in your field you should have no problem trying to get a job.

 

[John McCain]

Imo, pick a university based on-

1. Convenience
2. Drinking facilities

Because really, how can you be sure one undergraduate course is better than the comparable course at any other uni?

Research funding has zilch significance for undergraduate courses, and student satisfaction surveys are unreliable.

 

[Funky Monk]

yet you go to 'murdoch' university..(not even group of eight) and study politics and criminology....repulsive stuff
basically 'low' thinkers such as yourself get told when/what/how to think by us highers

wot cunt Murdoch University goes alright it might be full of old farts and hippies but we do ok, ok.

 

[phrred]

I go to a Go8 school and to be honest, theyre nothing special compared to the top schools in other countries. Much of this is because lots of the courses arent really that selective. I went on exchange and did a UCali program. The average students i met from Berkeley, UCLA are a much higher calibre than ur ave UNSW USYD. Lots of the Go8 and unis in Australia in general have substituted student quality for money. How many commerce students out there have done group work where half your group cant construct a proper sentence in English? I know I have at least 3 times.

And for the dude saying Go8s have Nobel Laureates, which Aust unis have more than 2 Nobel Laureates within their entire faculty?

 

[Sultun]

I go to a Go8 school and to be honest, theyre nothing special compared to the top schools in other countries. Much of this is because lots of the courses arent really that selective. I went on exchange and did a UCali program. The average students i met from Berkeley, UCLA are a much higher calibre than ur ave UNSW USYD. Lots of the Go8 and unis in Australia in general have substituted student quality for money. How many commerce students out there have done group work where half your group cant construct a proper sentence in English? I know I have at least 3 times.

And for the dude saying Go8s have Nobel Laureates, which Aust unis have more than 2 Nobel Laureates within their entire faculty?

No one is stopping you from abandoning ur Go8 and going out to UWS. So why don't you stop your lie mongering and get on the train?

 

[Grissom]

GO8 is a lobby group founded by 8 oldest universities to campaign for higher priority research funding. If a university ranks as a tier 2 or 3 research university that has implications of the level of government funding they will receive and how that impacts their agenda.

It is almost comical how 99% of the people talking about uni selection on here are high school students wishing to do an undergraduate degrees like commerce, econ, law etc which has no impact on whether the school is tier 1 or not so research intensive. These rankings only carry any kind of meaningful distinction if you're planning on doing a phd or academic career, but most of you are too immature to realise that undergrad has nothing to do with research or research reputation.

So for example, just because your university has some kind of research reputation for law and is cited in many peer reviewed journals does not mean that your undergraduate law degree carries with it that kind of cachet by association (unless you're somehow doing llm or Phd

If only more people understood this.

And just because certain staff may be involved in research does not mean they are better educators, and you certainly will not be learning about said research. I think that you will find a lot of academics are in fact socially inept and lack a lot of real world experience. After spending 3 years at both UNSW and UWS, I can say that the quality of teaching I received at UWS was higher than that at UNSW.

 

[hotdimsim]

a lot of the professors who are there to facilitate research can't run a lecture to saves their lives. Very smart people, can't relate to students at all.

 

[Andi0390]

The Group of 8 isn't based on rankings, as many people have already replied and told you.

The universities are also not the "oldest" in Australia, although many of them are older.

They are a group of research intensive universities. I'm not saying any of them are bad universities, but research intensive does not automatically equal good teaching, the subjects you want etc. All that can really be said of research intensive universities is they tend to attract more accomplished lecturers.

I'm doing a "lowly arts degree", and I enjoy it. I didn't do great at year 12, but I got into ANU. And if I would have achieved a 90 or above UAI I would still do an Arts degree. Its what I want to do, I would rather not go to university, than go and do an economics or maths degree. Sure, there are probably more options to get higher paid jobs after graduation but I wouldn't want those jobs. Some people's priority is money, and while I'm not saying that I don't want money, I just would rather do something I enjoyed than earn lots of money. When people start bashing other people's career choices they are just showing how they don't understand that some people think differently to them. It's okay, they will learn eventually.

Anyway, back to universities. I believe (going of memory here) that in this year's good university guide the uni's that ranked highest for teaching (from perspective of graduates I think) were not Go8 universities. In fact, they often don't really rank that high in a lot of things. I have heard countless times people complaining about crowding and lack of english skills at universities like Sydney, and people over all not being so happy.

Just because a lecturer is accomplished does not mean that they are a good teacher. There are a lot of lecturers that just don't do it for me, just can't lock on, concentrate, relate. I'd much rather a lecturer that isn't so accomplished but can explain things so I understand, and provide thought provoking problems.

I'm applying for a transfer to a non Go8 university. I don't think any of the Go8's offer the lifestyle that I want, and for an Arts degree it doesn't really matter.

If I were to do post grad I would probably limit my applications to Go8. Yes, some American Universities are better. They have more people. Their top 10% will be equal to our top 0.5%. If you can afford it, by all means, go to America. Honestly though, most people won't really need that kind of education to live the life they are going to live.

Anyway, just my opinion on things.

 

[ComingUpForAir]

The Group of 8 isn't based on rankings, as many people have already replied and told you.

The universities are also not the "oldest" in Australia, although many of them are older.

They are a group of research intensive universities. I'm not saying any of them are bad universities, but research intensive does not automatically equal good teaching, the subjects you want etc. All that can really be said of research intensive universities is they tend to attract more accomplished lecturers.

I'm doing a "lowly arts degree", and I enjoy it. I didn't do great at year 12, but I got into ANU. And if I would have achieved a 90 or above UAI I would still do an Arts degree. Its what I want to do, I would rather not go to university, than go and do an economics or maths degree. Sure, there are probably more options to get higher paid jobs after graduation but I wouldn't want those jobs. Some people's priority is money, and while I'm not saying that I don't want money, I just would rather do something I enjoyed than earn lots of money. When people start bashing other people's career choices they are just showing how they don't understand that some people think differently to them. It's okay, they will learn eventually.

Anyway, back to universities. I believe (going of memory here) that in this year's good university guide the uni's that ranked highest for teaching (from perspective of graduates I think) were not Go8 universities. In fact, they often don't really rank that high in a lot of things. I have heard countless times people complaining about crowding and lack of english skills at universities like Sydney, and people over all not being so happy.

Just because a lecturer is accomplished does not mean that they are a good teacher. There are a lot of lecturers that just don't do it for me, just can't lock on, concentrate, relate. I'd much rather a lecturer that isn't so accomplished but can explain things so I understand, and provide thought provoking problems.

I'm applying for a transfer to a non Go8 university. I don't think any of the Go8's offer the lifestyle that I want, and for an Arts degree it doesn't really matter.

If I were to do post grad I would probably limit my applications to Go8. Yes, some American Universities are better. They have more people. Their top 10% will be equal to our top 0.5%. If you can afford it, by all means, go to America. Honestly though, most people won't really need that kind of education to live the life they are going to live.

Anyway, just my opinion on things.

you miss the point..your stressing subjective measures
Objectively the group of eight are the biggest/best/richest universities in Australia (take a look at the most recent THES).
The name of your degree 'Arts' or whatever, means very little, whats important is what you study within that degree and your motives behind doing so.
Again, the 'accomplished' professors has nothing to do with better lectures or teaching, it has more to do with the fact when you reach your 3rd or 4th year you will have access to better 'human' resources, i.e. when you begin conducting your own research, you have advisors on the cutting edge of whatever field your interested in.

 

[runnable]

THES is in no way objective. How can anyone justify Stanford being 1 rank better than ANU and UC Berkeley in the 30s?

 

[hotdimsim]

you miss the point..your stressing subjective measures
Objectively the group of eight are the biggest/best/richest universities in Australia (take a look at the most recent THES).
The name of your degree 'Arts' or whatever, means very little, whats important is what you study within that degree and your motives behind doing so.
Again, the 'accomplished' professors has nothing to do with better lectures or teaching, it has more to do with the fact when you reach your 3rd or 4th year you will have access to better 'human' resources, i.e. when you begin conducting your own research, you have advisors on the cutting edge of whatever field your interested in.

i can see where your coming from, but the thes rankings are very far from objective. the majority of their weighting (40%) comes from 'peer review' and only 20% to citation/research.

i certainly concede that if you wish to do your masters, and especially your phd, your top choices in aus would be the go8 (as a general rule) However, in undergrad studies, this research component has nothing to do with quality of teaching. Even in your final years of study, many degrees that have the final year project/thesis etc only have a senior lecturer to run the cohort of students doing this final project, rather than them actively working with the students. However, this does change in postgrad.

 

[ComingUpForAir]

THES is in no way objective. How can anyone justify Stanford being 1 rank better than ANU and UC Berkeley in the 30s?

you dont look at the year-to-year rankings, you aggregate the rankings over time to get a general picture of where the university 'on-a-whole' (i.e undergraduate/gradute/research/satisfaction) sits.

 

[spence]

you miss the point..your stressing subjective measures
Objectively the group of eight are the biggest/best/richest universities in Australia (take a look at the most recent THES).
The name of your degree 'Arts' or whatever, means very little, whats important is what you study within that degree and your motives behind doing so.
Again, the 'accomplished' professors has nothing to do with better lectures or teaching, it has more to do with the fact when you reach your 3rd or 4th year you will have access to better 'human' resources, i.e. when you begin conducting your own research, you have advisors on the cutting edge of whatever field your interested in.

Fuck off, you can't objectively state that a certain uni is better than another

 

[Sultun]

why is it so hard to get into your constipated mind that the best unis in Australia are the Go8's?

 

[ComingUpForAir]

Fuck off, you can't objectively state that a certain uni is better than another

Yes, a single persons opinion is not an objective assertion you clammy slow-ped, the whole point is that I'm pointing to various empirical measures that correlate with 'goodness', rather than mummbling something along the lines of "me goez to a shit uni but cause I like it it makez dis uni gooz n stuff".

 

[runnable]

you dont look at the year-to-year rankings, you aggregate the rankings over time to get a general picture of where the university 'on-a-whole' (i.e undergraduate/gradute/research/satisfaction) sits.

If one can't even point to a year and use that figure with some confidence, what's the point of looking at the same rankings over time? If the ranking in one year is unreliable, why should we trust its other years' and the 'general picture'?

I have no issues that Go8 are the best unis in Australia, just that THES, or some other international ranking proves it, or is objective.

 

[ComingUpForAir]

If one can't even point to a year and use that figure with some confidence, what's the point of looking at the same rankings over time? If the ranking in one year is unreliable, why should we trust its other years' and the 'general picture'?

I have no issues that Go8 are the best unis in Australia, just that THES, or some other international ranking proves it, or is objective.

okay well Harvard has been ranked top ten every single year, I'd infer from that that Harvard is a very 'good' uni.
The point of taking a large sample to base your judgement is to help eliminate 'randomness' or 'noise', I take it you have never taken a course in statistics or probability.

 

[runnable]

okay well Harvard has been ranked top ten every single year, I'd infer from that that Harvard is a very 'good' uni.
The point of taking a large sample to base your judgement is to help eliminate 'randomness' or 'noise', I take it you have never taken a course in statistics or probability.

You don't need a course in statistics to understand that THES is in no way objective. A good uni may be ranked well because it is good, but a uni is not 'good' BECAUSE it ranks well. Get the relationship right.

If you did read my previous post, you should see that I know Go8 are good but I don't agree that you should base it on some international ranking.