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Strong and effective climate change policy, that doesn't involve a great, big new tax (1 Viewer)

David Spade

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Re: Strong and effective climate change policy, that doesn't involve a great, big new

i ithink the best policy would be to invent some spf67 sunscrean
 

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Re: Strong and effective climate change policy, that doesn't involve a great, big new

Nuclear power isn't a good long term solution. Firstly it relies on uranium (which is a finite resource) and secondly it produces hard to store waste. However it might be a good short/medium term solution. Even if 'global warming' is a hoax 9which I don't believe it is) switching our dependence away from coal and oil to renewable energy is a good thing. It's a win-win situation.

To John McCain...you obviously weren't joking.
 

David Spade

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Re: Strong and effective climate change policy, that doesn't involve a great, big new

it is the only medium term (100yrs) solution
 

S.H.O.D.A.N.

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Re: Strong and effective climate change policy, that doesn't involve a great, big new

it is the only medium term (100yrs) solution
A lot of medium-term solutions exist, many of which have the benefit of also being long-term solutions. So while I support nuclear power, it cannot be the sole source of power (max 25% of our energy production would be a good target).
 

Serius

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Re: Strong and effective climate change policy, that doesn't involve a great, big new

I believe it is about prevention rather than treatment and control. If we prevent the dire effects of global warming and climate change now we will not have to spend trillions of dollars in the future fixing up the mess.
How exactly are we [Australia] supposed to do that? did you not understand my post: nothing we do matters! there is NOTHING Australia can do that will even marginally SLOW DOWN global warming, let alone stop it. The absolute best we could do would be for everyone in Australia to take a suicide pill, and even then global emissions would only fall .01%! we need to find different solutions, not worry about what [insignificant] emissions we put out. This is a global problem, but 90% of the globe doesnt seem to give a shit, and are just pumping out more greenhouse gasses every year.

Tony seems like he is thinking of those type of solutions, technological advances, lovely clean nuclear power

Nuclear power isn't a good long term solution. Firstly it relies on uranium (which is a finite resource) and secondly it produces hard to store waste. However it might be a good short/medium term solution. Even if 'global warming' is a hoax 9which I don't believe it is) switching our dependence away from coal and oil to renewable energy is a good thing. It's a win-win situation.

To John McCain...you obviously weren't joking.
Oh please, what a juvenile opinion. Everything we can use for energy relies on some type of finite source, uranium is an almost untapped atm and has a huge energy potential [not to mention Australia sitting on one of the largest supplies atm] if we instantly today converted all our power needs into nuclear power plants we would cut down greenhouse gasses by a significant margin, have more and cleaner power, and the uranium would last centuries. It buys us time to sort something new out. Its tried and true technology that we could start getting off the ground today if we wanted, instead our government is farting around and handing out halogen lightbulbs as if that would make a difference.
 

aussie-boy

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Re: Strong and effective climate change policy, that doesn't involve a great, big new

Well you could start making rules for everything, e.g.
-Minimum population/ha for all new residential developments
-Public funding and subsidy of green power stations; switching off coal stations
-Spending up big on public transport, significantly reducing road space to create traffic jams and pushing people onto the new/improved public alternatives

But this would cost public $ and require income tax increases.
And it would achieve the same results as the ETS, but less efficiently.

---

The biggest problem is the ETS' perception - especially this $1100/yr figure.

This is the price you will pay if you elect to buy emission intensive G+S. The whole point of the ETS is that you won't pay this much as you will switch to cheaper green alternatives.

It's definitely not a "tax on everything"
 

Serius

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Re: Strong and effective climate change policy, that doesn't involve a great, big new

and yet globally, it will accomplish nothing....all this effort on the part of Australian citizens, sacrificing all that money, and it wont even be a detectable dip on global emmissions.
 

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Re: Strong and effective climate change policy, that doesn't involve a great, big new

and yet globally, it will accomplish nothing....all this effort on the part of Australian citizens, sacrificing all that money, and it wont even be a detectable dip on global emmissions.
Your a fool. Of course Australia by itself will accomplish nothing. Any country by itself will accomplish nothing. All countries obviously have to come to a global agreement, Australia obviously has to be part of the agreement.
 

Lentern

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Re: Strong and effective climate change policy, that doesn't involve a great, big new

He doesn't care all that much about it. He'd be happy not to pass any legislation at all.
I saw Kim Beazley on one of the breakfast shows a few months back talking about "climate acceptors" or something. Basically people who don't deny the climate science but more or less think "oh well when it comes we'll deal with the consequences as best we can." Abbott strikes me as one of those.
 

loquasagacious

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Re: Strong and effective climate change policy, that doesn't involve a great, big new

Your a fool. Of course Australia by itself will accomplish nothing. Any country by itself will accomplish nothing. All countries obviously have to come to a global agreement, Australia obviously has to be part of the agreement.
Actually I think that the US, China, India or the EU* could act alone and have a meaningful impact... but more importantly why should Australia do anything before a global agreement is reached???


*albeit not technically a country
 

loquasagacious

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Re: Strong and effective climate change policy, that doesn't involve a great, big new

I saw Kim Beazley on one of the breakfast shows a few months back talking about "climate acceptors" or something. Basically people who don't deny the climate science but more or less think "oh well when it comes we'll deal with the consequences as best we can." Abbott strikes me as one of those.
Probably the best strategy if we are being honest.... after all even if there was global action then stopping climate change would be very very hard.... and a certain level of change is now inevitable....
 

DJP92

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Re: Strong and effective climate change policy, that doesn't involve a great, big new

ANYTHING Australia does will do absolutely nothing in terms of saving the planet. Yeah, I'm a skeptic. I'm a skeptic in believing that we should put a big nice dent in our economy for the sake of implementing a green policy which will have absolutely no effect on "climate change".
All the Greens and climate change believers can throw all the evidence and scientific studies at everyone as much as they please, but it doesn't change the fact that Australia contributes to less then 1% of carbon emissions produced in total by the world.
Therefore, by logic, it is absolutely pointless to even think about taxing the whole country in the name of a policy which will do nothing for the reason it was implemented.
It is simply another big fat tax that do-gooder Rudd can say to the world stage is helping the environment.
 

runoutofsleep

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Re: Strong and effective climate change policy, that doesn't involve a great, big new

fyi guys abbott really is a full on sceptic

he's generally evasive about it but if you listen to some of his more frank interviews he's literally like LALALA i'm not listening i read half of plimer's book go away science
 

Vce121

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Re: Strong and effective climate change policy, that doesn't involve a great, big new

You don't have to be a sceptic to realise that an ETS is ineffective.

Do some research and you would realise that even if we are to accept the dubious science, even if the entire world were to adopt a similar scheme to that which is proposed in Australia, even with a higher target say 80% reductions in emissions, this would only effect a potential 0.0001- 0.001°c reduction in temperature. (Professor R. Carter, Professor J. Christy).

A simple cost benefit analysis would tell you that it is imprudent to shut down our economy and kill third world developing countries, for negligible environmental impact.

Unfortunately, that is the inconvenient truth.
 
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Re: Strong and effective climate change policy, that doesn't involve a great, big new

You don't have to be a sceptic to realise that an ETS is ineffective.

Do some research and you would realise that even if we are to accept the dubious science, even if the entire world were to adopt a similar scheme to that which is proposed in Australia, even with a higher target say 80% reductions in emissions, this would only effect a potential 0.0001- 0.001°c reduction in temperature. (Professor R. Carter, Professor J. Christy).

A simple cost benefit analysis would tell you that it is imprudent to shut down our economy and kill third world developing countries, for negligible environmental impact.

Unfortunately, that is the inconvenient truth.
Yeah, agreed. But I think runoutofsleep's point was that he's hardly going to waste time on a 'strong and effective climate policy' for something he doesn't believe in, is he? And it's not just him who feels that, many of the other Libs also do, evidently.
 

zstar

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Re: Strong and effective climate change policy, that doesn't involve a great, big new

I have a policy that would cut greenhouse gases by 69%

a) Build a massive dome on parliment house

b) Make people fart in paper bags (Also will cut plastic bag usage too)

c) Make all cars run on girl power

d) Ask Al gore to invent a machine that will turn carbon into $$$
 

Vce121

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Re: Strong and effective climate change policy, that doesn't involve a great, big new

Yeah, agreed. But I think runoutofsleep's point was that he's hardly going to waste time on a 'strong and effective climate policy' for something he doesn't believe in, is he? And it's not just him who feels that, many of the other Libs also do, evidently.
There is no reason why incentive based action should not be encouraged as good environmental practice. How about we endeavour to make our households, businesses and industries more EFFICIENT, prevent deforestation and encourage recycling. One does not have to believe in the climate science to recognise that these things make good sense and are matters of real gravity to the environment.

None of these things include a useless money go round tax on everything, which only acts to line the pockets of financial advisors and consultants.
 

runoutofsleep

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Re: Strong and effective climate change policy, that doesn't involve a great, big new

how
 

Serius

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Re: Strong and effective climate change policy, that doesn't involve a great, big new

There is no reason why incentive based action should not be encouraged as good environmental practice. How about we endeavour to make our households, businesses and industries more EFFICIENT, prevent deforestation and encourage recycling. One does not have to believe in the climate science to recognise that these things make good sense and are matters of real gravity to the environment.

None of these things include a useless money go round tax on everything, which only acts to line the pockets of financial advisors and consultants.
This i can 100% get behind, recycling and acting responsibly is alway a good idea. I just cant agree with labours idea that somehow a population of 20million is at fault for global warming and that we need to shoulder the economic burden, whilst china is INCREASING their greenhouse gas output every year by more than our entire country makes annually.

Its total insanity to think our measly country can somehow make a global difference. Its like pissing into an ocean of piss, and then saying we are going to severely gimp our ecconomy to half how much we piss, whilst right next door there is a sewer pipe flowing full speed ahead.

Wow damn thats a good analogy... the amounts are about right too.

If we were serious about greenhouse gas emissions [which i admit are still a problem, even though our output is negligible] then we would be switching to nuclear power. That is the single most effective thing we can do to reduce our emissions. Uranium is not a problem, Australia has enough uranium to power our country for centuries, and lets not forget our stores of thorium which are even larger. Thats at least another couple of centuries right there.Hopefully by then we will have cold fusion or zero point energy or something cool like that. The main point is to get off coal as fast as possible and on to something that doesnt put out greenhouse gasses and ruin our air quality.
 

Vce121

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Re: Strong and effective climate change policy, that doesn't involve a great, big new

This i can 100% get behind, recycling and acting responsibly is alway a good idea. I just cant agree with labours idea that somehow a population of 20million is at fault for global warming and that we need to shoulder the economic burden, whilst china is INCREASING their greenhouse gas output every year by more than our entire country makes annually.

Its total insanity to think our measly country can somehow make a global difference. Its like pissing into an ocean of piss, and then saying we are going to severely gimp our ecconomy to half how much we piss, whilst right next door there is a sewer pipe flowing full speed ahead.

Wow damn thats a good analogy... the amounts are about right too.

If we were serious about greenhouse gas emissions [which i admit are still a problem, even though our output is negligible] then we would be switching to nuclear power. That is the single most effective thing we can do to reduce our emissions. Uranium is not a problem, Australia has enough uranium to power our country for centuries, and lets not forget our stores of thorium which are even larger. Thats at least another couple of centuries right there.Hopefully by then we will have cold fusion or zero point energy or something cool like that. The main point is to get off coal as fast as possible and on to something that doesnt put out greenhouse gasses and ruin our air quality.
As I said before, please spread the news that even with a higher target say 80% reductions in emissions, this would only effect a maybe, if the science is accurate, a potential 0.0001- 0.001°c reduction in temperature. (Professor R. Carter, Professor J. Christy).

The media has been quite effective in censoring this aspect of the debate.

PS carbon dioxide is NOT POLLUTION!! sorry but that really frustrates me.
 

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