Subject Advice (2 Viewers)

[Stormey]

Pathetic? Yeah okay mate.

"oh hey look at this guy, he is dropping to general. don't worry I do extension 2 maths so I'll just look down my nose at him"

Define what a "pathetic" or "dodgey" subject is. The way I see it, if the subject was shithouse, the BOS wouldn't have them available, and every student in the state would me made to do exactly the same subject. Sort of like Year 7.

You may not enjoy the subject or be good at it, that doesn't make it a shit one that automatically scales down.

Also, just because it 'scales' well, doesn't mean you will get an automatic high mark. "ZOMG HURR DURRR EXTANSEN 2 MAFS 99.95 ATAR HERE I CUM". You still have to put in the effort;

a. If it's a generally lower scaling mark, it indicates an easier subject? Put in the effort and get a high mark.
b. If it's a generally high scaling mark, it indicates a harder subject? My teacher always used to say - "You can't scale a zero to a 90. You have to put in the effort and get a decent raw mark in order to achieve a high ATAR."

And I'm fairly sure that the BOS wouldn't purposely make it unfair for those who do less capable subjects, and give an advantage to those who do an extension subject or the more harder ones.

 

[Shadowdude]

Thanks for the details and stats.

I'm just failing to take that all in because that's nothing like my situation.

If I went through the course without studying AT ALL (only completing homework and classwork), I'd pull roughly 70 for each subject (excluding General Maths - this would be higher, and Standard English - this could be lower). I do understand what you're saying about dodgey subjects. Although, obviously If I apply myself the same as I would for normal subjects, I should be able to pull a good ATAR

I'm just saying that's like the baseline - obviously you're smarter than the state average (you being here is testament to that, and seriously asking questions instead of some others who go "OMG WAI DOES MAFFS SCALE BETTER THAN ARTS/DRAMAZ/PDHPE/DANCE? WHY DUS BOS THINK ARTS/DRAMAZ/PDHPE/DANCE S2DENTS ARE DUMMER?!"

However it is you who must make the call - I don't know what kind of student you are. I'd think you'd be pulling a P75 in most if not all of your subjects, now if you want me to do the math, I'd be happy to, just ask.

The things I quoted is just to show the relative scaling of things and how high you have to work toward to get to a dream ATAR. Like if I was to go state average on all the low-scalers you'd get around 50 ATAR, which means those who get 99 with those subjects did something extraordinary.

Still, this is a place to wish others well, so good luck!

In addendum, most of the quarrel with the sciences today is that they are watered down so that General maths people can do them, albeit with some difficulty.

 

[Stormey]

Haha yeah, don't get me wrong. I wasn't having a shot at you. I'm actually pretty thankful into what you posted up. It helped me out quite a bit and gave a bit of insight into the scaling.

I didn't get it at first, but after looking at it a few times I got what you mean. The difference in ATAR with the same marks for 1 different subject is pretty amazing. 5 whole points.

 

[Shadowdude]

Well, it is late - I might be a bit cranky, but naw, it's okay. Besides, more post count is always good =P

Yes, people say scaling shouldn't be a factor in subject selection - I beg to differ. I say, "If you want high ATAR's, you choose the path of least resistance." You may get 100 in let's say, CAFS, but there are many more people who have gotten 90 in Maths Extension and the BoS is going to say, "Well, if we were going to chuck everyone in a random class - would the 100 CAFS'er get higher than the 90 Maths Extension'er?" The answer would of course be no, hence the scaling.

Think of scaling as the BoS's way of trying to determine what the marks would look like if everyone was chucked into a random class and told to do it.

 

[duckcowhybrid]

Pathetic? Yeah okay mate.

"oh hey look at this guy, he is dropping to general. don't worry I do extension 2 maths so I'll just look down my nose at him"

Define what a "pathetic" or "dodgey" subject is. The way I see it, if the subject was shithouse, the BOS wouldn't have them available, and every student in the state would me made to do exactly the same subject. Sort of like Year 7.

You may not enjoy the subject or be good at it, that doesn't make it a shit one that automatically scales down.

Also, just because it 'scales' well, doesn't mean you will get an automatic high mark. "ZOMG HURR DURRR EXTANSEN 2 MAFS 99.95 ATAR HERE I CUM". You still have to put in the effort;

a. If it's a generally lower scaling mark, it indicates an easier subject? Put in the effort and get a high mark.
b. If it's a generally high scaling mark, it indicates a harder subject? My teacher always used to say - "You can't scale a zero to a 90. You have to put in the effort and get a decent raw mark in order to achieve a high ATAR."

And I'm fairly sure that the BOS wouldn't purposely make it unfair for those who do less capable subjects, and give an advantage to those who do an extension subject or the more harder ones.

Mate that is IFUCKINGSPLICER you are talking to. He is definitely going to get 99 ATAR minimum, and I can guarantee he will get 90+ in Ext 2 Maths. You can't scale a 0 to 90, but you can scale a 70/120 to a 90/100 for Ext Maths. If after a year of solid effort in Ext 2 Maths you can't get 70/120 then you're a disgrace. iSplicer may be a bit of a prick, but he's the wakeup call you need. Put in the effort into 2U, because it is going to pay off a lot better than General. Do not drop to General. There is no such thing as high marks in General. I'm sorry, that's just the way it is.

Pathetic and dodgy subjects are subjects that you can't score high in even if you get state ranks. General falls into this category. You are capped at 91. That means even if you come 1st in the state you will still get 91. And you aren't going to come 1st in the state. You'll probably get like 80 in General. It would be much nicer if you get a 70 in 2U, since that's equivalent to an 85 in General. And it goes on.

Don't drop to General and shoot yourself in the foot. BoS doesn't want you to know this, but there are subjects that are plain and simple, worse than others. General is one of them.

 

[Stormey]

Yeah, the extra effort may pay in 2U maths, but will affect every single other subject I do.

 

[duckcowhybrid]

Yeah, the extra effort may pay in 2U maths, but will affect every single other subject I do.

Are you really that bad at Maths? Are you really truly that bad at Maths that putting a bit more effort into 2U will drag your other subjects down? Well General will drag you down fiuther. Here's a tip, rather than doing 1 hour a night of study/homework (it's all the same to me), why not do 2. You're telling me that if you do 1 textbook exercise a night for 2U Maths (should not take you more than an hour) that you cannot get >80?. That's pretty bullshit. I highly doubt you're doing 3-4 hours so you would hardly be stressed for time.

 

[Stormey]

Thanks, but no thanks to your advice.

 

[kyokaku92]

1. Are my subjects dodgey?
2. Is an ATAR of 90 (+ or - 3) possible with my subjects?
3. What would you do in my situation?
4. Any advice?

1. Definitely not!!
2. Yep, you can beat the 4U people
3. Slog out the next 10 months with those subjects.
4. Repeat point 3

 

[Aquawhite]

If you're having trouble with the amount or difficulty of maths work, then I may suggest going down to General Maths... but if getting better at 2U means sacrificing time or marks in other subjects, is it really worth it? In my opinion, no.

 

[nutcracker]

I hate to say it, but duckcowhybrid is making a pretty valid point.
The thing is, the more effort you put into 2U maths, the more rewards you'll reap in the future. It's likely to count a lot more towards your ATAR than your other subjects will. And, like everyone else has said, General is capped. At a pretty low mark. But 2U isn't. You put in the effort and it'll boost your ATAR by a LOT. Like DCH said, if you put in a minimum of one hour a night into it, you can't go wrong. And one hour really isn't that much, in the grand scheme of things (I know people who dedicate 3+hrs to maths every night).

 

[Stormey]

kyokaku92 and Aquawhite, thanks for the advice guys

I was thinking the exact same thing as what you two have said but I wasn't too sure if I was correct. Boy, a bit of reassurance can go a long way.

Nutcracker, I understand what you and DCH are saying, but simply put it - I really don't have time for MORE maths. I'm already doing upwards of 1.5 - 2 hours a night on exercises. For 2U maths, we don't get 1 exercise, we get 2 or sometimes even 3. I've got 2 seperate majors which go for the length of the year that require quite a bit of time. And then there are the heavy theory subjects like SOR2 and PDHPE. I'm not saying these 2 are hard, but they require time. English is a lot of analysing, reading and essay length questions (mostly past paper HSC questions which take around 40 mins)

If you add all that up, plus lifestyle factors like dinner, taking the dog for a walk, travel time to school etc, I really don't have much extra time to spend on 2U maths.

 

[Aquawhite]

kyokaku92 and Aquawhite, thanks for the advice guys

I was thinking the exact same thing as what you two have said but I wasn't too sure if I was correct. Boy, a bit of reassurance can go a long way.

My only other line of advice, would be to improve your work/study methods for maths so that you are cutting down on the amount of time spent and maybe even the number of exercises needed to be done. This way you could enjoy the greatness of the Mathematics course ^_^

 

[nutcracker]

Okay, thinking about your situation in more depth, I realised that maybe I was saying what I did with my personal goals in mind rather than yours. Fiddling around with SAM (because I'm procrastinating on my belonging creative ><") I realised that if you get just 90 for the subjects that you do (disregarding maths altogether, whether it be General or Adv), you can get above 90 ATAR. 93.75 to be exact (though you probably already know this). So I guess dropping to General/dropping maths altogether will probably be a good thing for you. For your ATAR aim. Concentrate on your other subjects and you'll do fine (=
(Plus, I know what this whole 'I don't have time for more maths' thing is like. I'm thinking of dropping down from MX1 to 2U because it's taking a lot of time away from my other subjects and I'm not getting the marks in it ><).

 

[Stormey]

Glad you understand!

One thing I just realised from your post - I forgot I had 12 units to play with! There's no certainty that General Maths will be included in my ATAR if I go good in my other subjects. Going good in my other subjects depends on the amount of time I spend on them. The amount of time available depends on whether I drop down to general or not. Winnnnnnn!

 

[Sayangliss]

There's no certainty that general maths will be excluded in your ATAR (if you keep it) either - there have been cases where the subject with the lowest mark got countered in contrast to the subject with the highest mark.

 

[Stormey]

There's no certainty that general maths will be excluded in your ATAR (if you keep it) either - there have been cases where the subject with the lowest mark got countered in contrast to the subject with the highest mark.

I don't do General Maths at the moment. Currently, I do Mathematics and am contemplating (pretty much 100%) that I am going to drop down to General Maths

The ATAR is based on the 10 highest scoring units isn't it? So how can the lowest subject be factored in? Got any sources or links?

 

[Sayangliss]

I don't do General Maths at the moment. Currently, I do Mathematics and am contemplating (pretty much 100%) that I am going to drop down to General Maths

The ATAR is based on the 10 highest scoring units isn't it? So how can the lowest subject be factored in? Got any sources or links?

Ah sorry my bad - swap "general maths" for "mathematics" in my previous post

And yes but those 10 highest scoring units are affected by scaling, so after scaling, the subject you acquired the highest mark in may not be the subject with the highest scaled mark. Links I have none - I never bothered to search for them (others might have?)
It happens to a few people I know (for the total reversal of marks and what's counted towards ATAR) - and so their personal experience is my source.

Subjects with the lowest HSC mark are known to have counted over subjects with a higher HSC mark - this happened to me personally and it probably happens to plenty of others too.

 

[Stormey]

Can someone please clarify this. I was always under the impression that the 10 best units were picked after scaling, and not before.

 

[Shadowdude]

^ That was my impression too