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Aganist abortion (2 Viewers)

mes ami

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People like him shit me. If he cares so much about "human life" why doesn't he spend more time and energy helping those that are already alive and are in need? A fetus isn't guaranteed life, it could be still born or miscarried. Care for life that already exists as it surely has greater "intrinsic value" than that of a fetus. We already have in Australia, let alone the world, a large number of orphans. Christianity teaches you to help others and to be moral. Surely you should help those in need first before unborn life that may survive pregnancy.

Also, why do you people argue that we are destroying potential of a fetus? Surely those in third world countries, those riddled by poverty and those riddled with abuse are having their potentials dampened more so.

We already have a large enough population to provide individuals whose work/s benefits humanity. Look at our multitude of scientific discovery and technological advancements. By aborting fetuses we are in no way impeding our progression as a species. Rather so, we are in some sense contributing to natural selection. Sure we have older people with undesirable genes procreating with the use of scientific advancements. Yes this entails an increase of bad genes in our gene pool. However, by allowing abortion we do counter this issue to a degree. Many people with undesirable genes abort fetuses. Many women with hereditary diseases do so. Those dependent on drugs do so and it is for the greater good. They could produce children with birth defects, poor genes, diseases etc.

Furthermore, by banning abortion you will only provide an increase in illegal methods to abort fetuses with very negative effects on the mother. Aside from emotional and psychological consequences there is the possibility for serious physical harm on the woman and the possibility of death. A woman's quality of life should not be lessened because she got impregnated. If you ban abortions not only will you have an increase in teen mothers but you will also have an increase in broken families that will have serious psychological effects on the nations youth. The man who impregnated the woman will not necessarily stand by her side. There is a plethora of evidence in the public domain that highlights an increase of criminal behaviour and drug dependency among single parent youths, struggling or not and youths with rocky relations between their parents. If you are unable to provide for the child or are not ready for the child you should have the choice to abort it. Lets not forget struggling single mothers/parents and economic strain it entails or the strain on orphanages and child protection services. You all forget how the quality of life for both child and mother can greatly be affected by your actions.

Procreation is survival of the species. The choice on whether one can abort of keep the child is not up to the species. It is an individual right.
 
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SylviaB

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UGH

that paper is so fucking stupid

humans have no intrinsic value

morality, religious or otherwise, is a complete load of shit, and there are obvious reasons to be against murder without believing in morality
 

supercalamari

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Is this serious?

I'm going to assume you are just trolling based on your other posts.
Not trolling, sarcasm.

I think you are missing the point. Even if there is the potential to contribute, or a past contribution, this won't affect their current level of intrinsic value under this definition.

Also, point 2 would seem to undermine your own position here. If even the mere potentiality of contribution to society were enough to grant intrinsic value to a human being (something I disagree with), why not extend this onto the embryo or fetus?
You're putting too much importance on something which is essentially less then a handful of cells until a long way through the pregnancy. Zygotes don't have feelings.

look our population is too high. we don't need bucket loads of babies. natural selection will eventually prevail over overpopulation, but in the meantime crush those fetuses.

fuck seriously if you care so much about human life go help those struggling who are already out of the womb. Go help africans, go help orphans, go help war widows, go help countries raped by imperialism and left for the dogs.
Exactly. George Carlin said:

Why, why, why, why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are people you wouldn't want to fuck in the first place, huh? Boy, these conservatives are really something, aren't they? They're all in favor of the unborn. They will do anything for the unborn. But once you're born, you're on your own. Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to nine months. After that, they don't want to know about you. They don't want to hear from you. No nothing. No neonatal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. If you're preborn, you're fine; if you're preschool, you're fucked.


So you know what I tell these anti-abortion people? I say 'Hey. Hey. If you think a fetus is more important that a woman, try getting a fetus to wash the shit stains out of your underwear. For no pay and no pension.'
 

mes ami

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if you are referring to the religious definition intrinsic value.

So jesus died to allow the childs birth, the continuation of humanity, and the child is in gods image which all equates to your "intrinsic value". Surely an adult or a teenager has "intrinsic value" too over its life span more so than a possible child.
 

arcticdbk

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Why do women 'fall' pregnant?

Is the baby dropped into the womb like what shu
 

cosmo kramer

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who gives a shit about a womans right to choose or the right of the fetus

i'm pro-abortion, not pro-choice or pro-life

abortion is the most eugenic method of birth control, it's infinitely superior to artifical contraception

the kind of people who tend to have abortions in great numbers are the sort of people who you don't want having children at all

obese, ugly, dumb as rocks octoroons

the kinds you see wearing track suit pants pushing their ugly kids around in a pram
 

arcticdbk

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who gives a shit about a womans right to choose or the right of the fetus

i'm pro-abortion, not pro-choice or pro-life

abortion is the most eugenic method of birth control, it's infinitely superior to artifical contraception

the kind of people who tend to have abortions in great numbers are the sort of people who you don't want having children at all

obese, ugly, dumb as rocks octoroons

the kinds you see wearing track suit pants pushing their ugly kids around in a pram
Actually chavs seem to want more children

exploit baby
exploit taxpayer money
???
profit

money spent on acrylic nails and new trackies
 

cosmo kramer

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yeah but most abortions are still carried out at the lowest socioeconomic levels

smart people tend not to get into positions where they need to terminate unwanted pregnancies in the first place

without abortions there'd probably be more bogan/abo/negro trash
 

Rothbard

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And your point being? We don't give anesthetics to those who we want to murder, and then justify the action of murdering saying theres no pain.
that's legit the dumbest thing I've ever read
 

katie tully

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On this point I would encourage you to read through the paper I attached in this post and then object to the arguments there.
If human beings do not have intrinsic value or worth, while of course we shouldn't have problem with abortion, we also shouldn't have a problem with terminating the existence of any human being for any reason!
1. By definition, an embryo/fetus is not a human
2. Why should we have a problem with terminating the existence of any human being? Not withstanding our own desire/drive to survive, do you think the idea of intrinsic value holds when it's my life/death versus someone else?

An embryo or fetus is an existent life form
An embryo is not. And a fetus is not until at such point as it is able to sustain life outside of the womb, whether this be assisted by technology or not.

An embryo or fetus is of the species homo sapiens
Only if it's the product of two homo sapiens.

An embryo or fetus is an existent life form that is of the species homo sapiens
I have issues with 'existent'. It's not an existent life form. It doesn't exist as a single entity. Am embryo is not existent.

It exists, yes.

Therefore an embryo or fetus is to be recognized as a human being
I don't think you fulfilled the burden of proof with those other points.
1. ???
2.???
3. ???
4. Therefore an embryo of fetus is human!

Secondly, the proponent of the belief that human beings are conscious will also have to make sense of what to call a person that loses consciousness. Is one no longer a human being when they go to sleep, faint, get knocked out or lapse into a coma?
I think you are placing too literal an emphasis on conscious.
 

Graney

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legalizing abortion is the single biggest factor in reducing crime rates ~freakonomics~
 

SylviaB

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Abortion is horrible and abhorrent and IMMORAL

and as such I want to force the people who would commit such despicable acts to raise children


!!
 

cosmo kramer

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should just force people to have abortions tbh

no right to choose societies right not to be burdened by degenerates and losers
 

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