Should English be compulsory?? (3 Viewers)

[Aerath]

I thought Standard and Advanced scaled the same. Does that mean ESL scaled higher than Advanced?

I never did (still don't, and never will) understand the scaling system - regardless of what you do or don't understand, it makes sense that you want the highest mark possible - so worry about the stuff you can control, and not about the stuff you can't control.

 

[Gigacube]

I thought Standard and Advanced scaled the same. Does that mean ESL scaled higher than Advanced?

I never did (still don't, and never will) understand the scaling system - regardless of what you do or don't understand, it makes sense that you want the highest mark possible - so worry about the stuff you can control, and not about the stuff you can't control.

Standard and Advanced scale the same they just align differently due to the difficulty or something. I think ESL scales or aligns around the same level as English Advanced.

 

[Shadowdude]

Because if you make something compulsory you are favouring certain students that are better at those subjects over others and those subjects may not help the student in their studies after school so it's just wasting their time.

English is a fundamental need in society though. Everyone has to learn how to speak and use it. Let's not even take the international students into account, let's go to the other end of the spectrum - the Standard English students who really can't read or write to the level they should. That's unacceptable.

They live in a country where English is the main language, and yet - even though they aren't mentally impaired (as in like have dyslexia or something) - they can't read or write very well.

 

[Aerath]

Ancient and Modern History, and at least it's abit more interesting and relevant to our lives

Well, please tell me when I'm going to need to know that Mt Vesuvius buried Herculaneum and Pompeii. Tell me when I'm going to need to know when Hadrian's Wall was built.

Also, isn't English fundamentally about grammar, etc... ok well how come in exams they do not care about it? defeats the purpose.

If you honestly believe that, why don't you go into your next English exam and spll evyfing lyk dis n c how well ur gonna do. That are strange arguments.

Honestly.

 

[Absolutezero]

Tell me when I'm going to need to know when Hadrian's Wall was built.

Pub Trivia

I agree with your arguments though.

 

[Shadowdude]

I believe that English should not be compulsory, because the curriculum of current, is a waste of time. How is studying Shakespeare going to help you in any point in your life? and the essay stuff is nonsense, because you do that in Ancient and Modern History, and at least it's abit more interesting and relevant to our lives. Also, isn't English fundamentally about grammar, etc... ok well how come in exams they do not care about it? defeats the purpose.

My retort: I maintain that English is about essay writing skills - essentially learning how to take a big chunk of information, synthesising it and filtering out the crap, before writing a logical and coherent response on a question.

This goes into writing letters or whatever as well, it's still taking information, filtering out the un-needed bits and writing.

Well, please tell me when I'm going to need to know that Mt Vesuvius buried Herculaneum and Pompeii. Tell me when I'm going to need to know when Hadrian's Wall was built.

Duh, when you're watching Jeopardy! and it comes up.

No what i am trying to say is that; they don't care or look for punctuation mistakes, which i believe is important (an English teacher even said this). Why don't they change the syllabus of English to teach students how to correct this, and base the work around writing letters (argument letters to councils, etc) that surely teaches you more life skills.

If you read my previous post, i said "abit" followed by "relevant" not suggesting it was completely, although I believe it is with certain evidence still circulating. It's not some Skryznecki poem that has all these preconceived ideas, of which he even said were rubbish lol.

English is a grey area. It's not "Oh okay, he did this - so one mark". The mark you get is a 'general feel' - so the marker will read it and say, "Hmm, feels like a... 12." And then the marker will give you 12. Simple.

If you make tons of grammatical mistakes, that "feel" is going to go down. Like it or not, given the same arguments - everyone is going to give the better written response a higher mark than the one littered with mistakes. Yes, it may not be part of the syllabus but I believe part of the marking criteria is based on control, flair and all that other stuff.

And read my previous retort to you.

 

[slyhunter]

My retort: I maintain that English is about essay writing skills - essentially learning how to take a big chunk of information, synthesising it and filtering out the crap, before writing a logical and coherent response on a question.

This goes into writing letters or whatever as well, it's still taking information, filtering out the un-needed bits and writing.



Duh, when you're watching Jeopardy! and it comes up.



English is a grey area. It's not "Oh okay, he did this - so one mark". The mark you get is a 'general feel' - so the marker will read it and say, "Hmm, feels like a... 12." And then the marker will give you 12. Simple.

If you make tons of grammatical mistakes, that "feel" is going to go down. Like it or not, given the same arguments - everyone is going to give the better written response a higher mark than the one littered with mistakes. Yes, it may not be part of the syllabus but I believe part of the marking criteria is based on control, flair and all that other stuff.

And read my previous retort to you.

Jokes on the criteria

 

[-may-cat-]

No what i am trying to say is that; they don't care or look for punctuation mistakes, which i believe is important (an English teacher even said this).

Does anyone else find this a little bit funny?

 

[s2 SEductive]

Even if it weren't compulsory many jobs and uni degrees prefer a unit of English!

 

[strawberries122]

No. I'm in Year 10 right know and I absolutely hate it. People who have a analytical mind and the patience to read through texts and contemplate what they mean, techniques, meaning behind it, etc are suited to it but that's not me. For sure I can write essays, but about the things that interests me, thing that I can understand, things that I can research, that's easy. My grammar and structural skills are good, so that's not a problem. I don't see how studying poems or novels or any other texts is going to help me in the future. I think of English as a waste of time, but that is just me. Some people enjoy reading through a lengthly text and analyzing it, but I just don't. And as for the skills we can apply from English, there are plenty of skills we get from other subjects as well that we can apply to real life. And I'm not part of the group who is saying "I suck at English, so it shouldn't be cumpulsory, but it is just not my thing and I don't think I should be forced to do something that I don't like.

 

[Shadowdude]

No. I'm in Year 10 right know and I absolutely hate it. People who have a analytical mind and the patience to read through texts and contemplate what they mean, techniques, meaning behind it, etc are suited to it but that's not me. For sure I can write essays, but about the things that interests me, thing that I can understand, things that I can research, that's easy. My grammar and structural skills are good, so that's not a problem. I don't see how studying poems or novels or any other texts is going to help me in the future. I think of English as a waste of time, but that is just me. Some people enjoy reading through a lengthly text and analyzing it, but I just don't. And as for the skills we can apply from English, there are plenty of skills we get from other subjects as well that we can apply to real life. And I'm not part of the group who is saying "I suck at English, so it shouldn't be cumpulsory, but it is just not my thing and I don't think I should be forced to do something that I don't like.

I think you're missing the point of what HSC English is then. It's about essay writing skills, to me. And because it's "English", they get you to read books and stuff - and because textual analysis has become very big in the past few decades - they get us to do that to perhaps gain an appreciation of texts.

Now, I didn't think highly of speeches before I studied Module B - and I tell you know that analysing those speeches made me appreciate the medium of a speech a helluva lot more. I actually look back with strong regret in primary school where I just basically mocked the "public speaking competition" to the point of reading a McDonald's menu for Year 9 - because I didn't see the point of speeches.

Even if you hate the analysis, you may like the texts within. I didn't know about As You Like It before HSC English, and heck - I watched a stage performance on STVDIO for a few hours a few weeks back when it was on. Blade Runner is a pretty cool movie, as I've found - and Frankenstein failed to live up to high expectations.

Sure, they can get you to write essays on things that interest you - but that's not feasible at a state-wide level and that's why they have Extension 2 English for 'free creatives' such as those.

 

[Aerath]

Does anyone else find this a little bit funny?

I was going to point that out, but I didn't wanna sound mean.

 

[Phoenix Fury]

Stupid subject, results are pure cointoss.

 

[RawrJohnT]

It should be compulsory, but it shouldn't HAVE to count toward your ATAR.
Heck, they should even cut it down a bit so I don't have to remember 7 goddamn texts just for 2 tests.

 

[Hello2U2]

Short answer: yes.

But I am severely biased because I'm studying to become an English teacher.

It should definitely be compulsory, but I am not too fussed as to whether it should be compulsory up to year 10 or year 12.

 

[Omnipotence]

Does anyone else find this a little bit funny?

Antithesis can be trivial at times.

 

[Amogh]

Compulsory - yes
Forced in the calculation of the ATAR - I'm leaning towards no

See that's what I don't understand. You're suggesting that the Board strip of the ONE incentive (unless you actually like it) there is to study English - Your ATAR.

 

[LoveHateSchool]

I disagree with the statement that it is a cointoss result subject! Yes, it's a bit subjective, like most non math/science subjects.

Sure, there may be a little difference like one teacher will give you 80%, one will give you 84% but it's not like you'd get two varying marks like 60% and 100%.

Oh and for internals at many schools, this subjectivity is cut down on by having two teachers mark and average it or a different teacher marking each task to ensure consistency.

 

[Riproot]

Short answer: yes.

But I am severly biased because I'm studying to become an English teacher.

It should definately be compulsory, but I am not too fussed as to whether it should be compulsory up to year 10 or year 12.

Definitely*
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[Riproot]

I disagree with the statement that it is a cointoss result subject! Yes, it's a bit subjective, like most non math/science subjects.

Sure, there may be a little difference like one teacher will give you 80%, one will give you 84% but it's not like you'd get two varying marks like 60% and 100%.

Oh and for internals at many schools, this subjectivity is cut down on by having two teachers mark and average it or a different teacher marking each task to ensure consistency.

No.
HSIE subjects aren't subjective. You say the points you learned about and you get the marks. In English the marker could have a differing perspective of the meaning of the text and hence mark you down.

English is the only subject in the HSC that is like this and it's compulsory!!!
Except maybe art critiques, but then you have the major work to back you up, what do we have in English?!