Are all the good scholarships becoming "indigenous only"? Discuss. (3 Viewers)

[Existential]

I personally am disgusted at the massive predominance of indigenous only scholarships, and they are on the rise. I think they are counterproductive.

Discuss.

 

[enoilgam]

Absolutely, I believe that its very racist. At my university, the vast majority of the scholarships are indigenous only. So much for the rest of us who put in the effort as well.

 

[Phoenix Fury]

affirmative action, fuck yeh!!!

 

[tambam]

I don't see how this is racist, aboriginals are socioeconomically disadvantaged and most legitimately can't afford to go to university.

If you're actually very smart, and get 99.9+ atar, you will get an excellent scholarship.

But for everyone else, uni fees and hecs payments are pretty affordable, and what makes you so excellent that unis should throw thousands of dollars at you..

 

[michaeljennings]

But for everyone else, uni fees and hecs payments are pretty affordable, and what makes you so excellent that unis should throw thousands of dollars at you..

Not all non-Aboriginal families find uni fees 'pretty affordable'

 

[d3st1nyLiang]

I think OP just wants more need-based scholarships?

 

[tambam]

Not all non-Aboriginal families find uni fees 'pretty affordable'

There are quite a few scholarships for financially disadvantaged students, and something like $1000 hecs payment a year is not an enormous financial burden for most people, the government is already pretty generous compared to how much it costs to go to uni overseas.

And okay, just to clarify OP, are you saying there aren't enough scholarships for people with financial needs, or all the ones for academic excellence, leadership etc.

 

[mitchy_boy]

Day toookt ooour jeeerbs

 

[Ivorytw]

There are quite a few scholarships for financially disadvantaged students, and something like $1000 hecs payment a year is not an enormous financial burden for most people, the government is already pretty generous compared to how much it costs to go to uni overseas.

And okay, just to clarify OP, are you saying there aren't enough scholarships for people with financial needs, or all the ones for academic excellence, leadership etc.

Yes, but this is racist. Any Aboriginal, not considering their financial situation is allowed to get a full scholarship based on the colour of their skin.

However, any other person trying to get a scholarship is completely out of the bidding. It is absolutely racist to assume that all aboriginals are going to be unable to afford to attend university/get a job that enables them to pay off their hecs/fee help afterward.

So basically what you're saying is that all Aboriginals are poor and unable to afford fees while all other races are wealthy.

The scholarships should solely be financially/academically driven.

 

[Azure]

Spot on. ^

 

[Aerath]

But for everyone else, uni fees and hecs payments are pretty affordable, and what makes you so excellent that unis should throw thousands of dollars at you..

That's an extremely fallacious statement - so you're saying that every non-ATSI (non Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander) family sees forking over $4000 a semester as affordable? That's an extremely myopic view, garnered from a very limited and selective cross section of society. Just because you and some people you know are doing fine, doesn't mean everyone is doing it fine.

And as Ivorytw says - affirmative action with regards to this may be seen by some as racist and generally stereotypical - by saying that ATSIs are unable to afford fees, and won't receive jobs otherwise.

 

[Dr_Fresh]

two words: "white guilt".
whether its justified guilt or not, u be the judge.

i agree its unfair and completely stupid that indigenous people get scholarships just cuz they are indigenous. everyone should be assessed against the same criteria. that way, the people who actually need it, get it. rather than having people who may not need it getting scholarships and those who actually need it missing out. of course, im talking only about equity scholarships here.

 

[tambam]

That's an extremely fallacious statement - so you're saying that every non-ATSI (non Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander) family sees forking over $4000 a semester as affordable? That's an extremely myopic view, garnered from a very limited and selective cross section of society. Just because you and some people you know are doing fine, doesn't mean everyone is doing it fine.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression thatfor most courses you're only required to pay a hecs contribution of around $1000 a year, and the rest you pay back when you inevitably geta job.

And no, of all the scholarship schemes I've looked at recently, there appear to be plenty of scholarships for ANY financial disadvantaged students, and they are hardly restricted to indigenous kids.

Statistically, the indigenous population has extremely low percentages which get post high school qualifications, unemployment rates are much higher and their average income is significantly less than non-indigenous conterparts, so yes, there is 'white guilt' which makes universities and the government obliged to attempt to rectify this, and I don't think this is wrong.

 

[izzy88]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression thatfor most courses you're only required to pay a hecs contribution of around $1000 a year, and the rest you pay back when you inevitably geta job.

actually you aren't required to pay off any hecs debt whilst studying. You only start paying off your debt when you are earning over the set amount (something like $40,000 a year).

Of course you still have to spend anywhere from $500 to $1000 on textbooks a year (despite the fact that universities actually aren't allowed to charge for extra course costs - its supposed to be included in hecs fees - the general way the university gets around those requirements is by having one textbook in the library that is somehow supposed to be able to be used by the whole cohort...)

My view of are that scholarships are generally not aimed at helping students pay off their hecs debts (although they can obviously be used for that), but equity scholarships are generally aimed at ensuring a student has financial support for whilst they are at university to cover (for example) rent, living costs, textbooks - so that they don't have to be working heaps, and can actually complete their degree.

 

[Existential]

Not all non-Aboriginal families find uni fees 'pretty affordable'

This is where people arguing for affirmative action fail miserably.

I don't see how this is racist, aboriginals are socioeconomically disadvantaged and most legitimately can't afford to go to university.

If you're actually very smart, and get 99.9+ atar, you will get an excellent scholarship.

But for everyone else, uni fees and hecs payments are pretty affordable, and what makes you so excellent that unis should throw thousands of dollars at you..

What universe are you from? Surely not the Milky Way.....

There are quite a few scholarships for financially disadvantaged students, and something like $1000 hecs payment a year is not an enormous financial burden for most people, the government is already pretty generous compared to how much it costs to go to uni overseas.

And okay, just to clarify OP, are you saying there aren't enough scholarships for people with financial needs, or all the ones for academic excellence, leadership etc.

I am noting that there is an ongoing shift of making scholarships across the board being indigenous only. It is indefendable. I'm sorry if I offend, but it is terribly unfair and pathetically justified.

There are quite a few scholarships for financially disadvantaged students, and something like $1000 hecs payment a year is not an enormous financial burden for most people, the government is already pretty generous compared to how much it costs to go to uni overseas.

And okay, just to clarify OP, are you saying there aren't enough scholarships for people with financial needs, or all the ones for academic excellence, leadership etc.

Why do scholarships for financially disadvantaged students, or rural students, have to discriminate against the non-indigenous? You can't justify that because it is grossly unfair.

I think OP just wants more need-based scholarships?

Not more. I'm just saying if we are to have need-based scholarships they should be fairly means tested, not biased towards a social/cultural minority group.

That's an extremely fallacious statement - so you're saying that every non-ATSI (non Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander) family sees forking over $4000 a semester as affordable? That's an extremely myopic view, garnered from a very limited and selective cross section of society. Just because you and some people you know are doing fine, doesn't mean everyone is doing it fine.

And as Ivorytw says - affirmative action with regards to this may be seen by some as racist and generally stereotypical - by saying that ATSIs are unable to afford fees, and won't receive jobs otherwise.

This.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression thatfor most courses you're only required to pay a hecs contribution of around $1000 a year, and the rest you pay back when you inevitably geta job.

And no, of all the scholarship schemes I've looked at recently, there appear to be plenty of scholarships for ANY financial disadvantaged students, and they are hardly restricted to indigenous kids.

Statistically, the indigenous population has extremely low percentages which get post high school qualifications, unemployment rates are much higher and their average income is significantly less than non-indigenous conterparts, so yes, there is 'white guilt' which makes universities and the government obliged to attempt to rectify this, and I don't think this is wrong.

Favouring affirmative action here will not 'close the gap'. You are supporting something that through societal perceptions will probably widen it.

\My view of are that scholarships are generally not aimed at helping students pay off their hecs debts (although they can obviously be used for that), but equity scholarships are generally aimed at ensuring a student has financial support for whilst they are at university to cover (for example) rent, living costs, textbooks - so that they don't have to be working heaps, and can actually complete their degree.

Exactly. The person arguing for affirmative action here is ignorant to this fact of reality. It is UNIVERSAL, not just experienced by our beloved ATSIs ffs.......

 

[izzy88]

Ok 'valid' arguments (well, its valid in my eyes, but i guess it depends on your point of view) - yes it is difficult when you see lots of indigenous scholarships and you are also struggling financially - however the statistics (census) still demonstrate that:

"Non-Indigenous people were twice as likely as Indigenous peoples to have a non-school qualification in 2006 (53% compared with 26%). Non-Indigenous people were more than four times as likely to have a Bachelor Degree or above (21% compared with 5%) and twice as likely to have an Advanced Diploma or Diploma (9% compared with 4%)" Source: http://www.hreoc.gov.au/social_justice/statistics/index.html#Heading363

The universities (and the government as a whole) are trying to do their bit to increase education standards of the indigenous population - trying to bring it more in line with the rest of Australia. Until education, health etc of the indigenous population is in line with the rest of Australia it is likely that there will continue to be indigenous scholarships or other means of assistance being provided specific to them.

Furthermore, it is likely that the scholarships are also taking into account the financial needs of the indigenous applicants when awarding the scholarship (ie. if you are choosing between two indigenous candidates and one can afford it and one can't - then reasonableness would show that the one that can't afford it would get the scholarship).

when the standards of education/living/health of indigenous communities are equal with the rest of australia, then I think that's the time to be complaining about the 'unfairness' of the scholarship system.

 

[Ivorytw]

Ok 'valid' arguments (well, its valid in my eyes, but i guess it depends on your point of view) - yes it is difficult when you see lots of indigenous scholarships and you are also struggling financially - however the statistics (census) still demonstrate that:

"Non-Indigenous people were twice as likely as Indigenous peoples to have a non-school qualification in 2006 (53% compared with 26%). Non-Indigenous people were more than four times as likely to have a Bachelor Degree or above (21% compared with 5%) and twice as likely to have an Advanced Diploma or Diploma (9% compared with 4%)" Source: http://www.hreoc.gov.au/social_justice/statistics/index.html#Heading363

The universities (and the government as a whole) are trying to do their bit to increase education standards of the indigenous population - trying to bring it more in line with the rest of Australia. Until education, health etc of the indigenous population is in line with the rest of Australia it is likely that there will continue to be indigenous scholarships or other means of assistance being provided specific to them.

Furthermore, it is likely that the scholarships are also taking into account the financial needs of the indigenous applicants when awarding the scholarship (ie. if you are choosing between two indigenous candidates and one can afford it and one can't - then reasonableness would show that the one that can't afford it would get the scholarship).

In my personal opinion, when the standards of education/living/health of indigenous communities are equal with the rest of australia, then I think that's the time to be complaining about the unfairness of the scholarship system.

This is completely ridiculous.

 

[Existential]

So yeah...

 

[kaz1]

also female only scholarships, you got the vote, you got equal pay, what more do ya want?

 

[Dr_Fresh]

I also love it how people who are 1/8 indigenous (has like 1 grandparent who is indigenous) claim the same benefits as indigenous Australians. Shithouse policy needs work.