Should English be compulsory?? (6 Viewers)

[Absolutezero]

woah iruler were you demoted from moderator? Why the fuck cant you learn how to structure/write a formal piece of writing in year 10? Whats so fucking impossible to do in yr 10??? WHY DO YOU HAVE TO DO IT IN YR 11 AND 12????? Im sorry but it FUCKING pisses me off, it is ENTIRELY achievable to learn advanced english leading up to year 10, you do NOT need to fucking drag it on and EVEN MAKE IT COUNT FOR YOUR ATAR!!! It can easily be finished completely by the start of yr 11. Why doesn't mister Picollo understand that there is nooo need to burden yr 12 students with something that they could have done yeeaars ago....

iRuler wasn't demoted, he chose to leave.

Education is an ongoing process, language skills in particular. You can't just abandon it.

 

[hayabusaboston]

Exactly this.

I don't even know why this is a question, but of course it should be compulsory. You don't want a nation full of illiterates.

Dude, exactly what I am saying. I agree compulsory, but not for fucking HSC. Leave it at yr 10, but not yr 10 english!! I mean ACCELERATE THE WHOLE SYLLABUS TWO YEARS, and if you fail the english tests in yr 10 you arent allowed to start yr 11. So you would LEARN ALL THE FUCKING INTRICACIES you need to know in bloody HSC english, but you would have finished them all in yr 10.

Example

In India, the SCIENCE syllabus is TWO YEARS ahead of Australia's. They learn HSC content in yr 10. Why cant we do the fucking same with english???? It would get rid of the fucking HUGE burden on yr 12'er backs.

 

[krnofdrg]

Dude, exactly what I am saying. I agree compulsory, but not for fucking HSC. Leave it at yr 10, but not yr 10 english!! I mean ACCELERATE THE WHOLE SYLLABUS TWO YEARS, and if you fail the english tests in yr 10 you arent allowed to start yr 11. So you would LEARN ALL THE FUCKING INTRICACIES you need to know in bloody HSC english, but you would have finished them all in yr 10.

Example

In India, the SCIENCE syllabus is TWO YEARS ahead of Australia's. They learn HSC content in yr 10. Why cant we do the fucking same with english???? It would get rid of the fucking HUGE burden on yr 12'er backs.

That's a very good idea (I personally didn't see much change from year 10 english to HSC Standard apart from new texts we were given to learn about lool), I think like Mathematics, Sciences, HSIE and whatever in the junior years, students should have the autonomy to choose whether or not to do the same thing for English or not on the prelim and HSC scale.

Or if that's not the case, they could just change the things we learn, I mean learning about things like Belonging and Journey is quite ridiculous and utterly boring. I don't see how this is going to benefit us in the future?

 

[krnofdrg]

But for International Students, I think ESL should be compulsory.

 

[enoilgam]

I think english should be compulsory, albeit in a changed form. There needs to be more of an emphasis on writing skills and language, because many people leave high school without a strong enough foundation in these areas (in uni, many people dont know basic writing skills in this shows in essays and other written tasks). Analysing texts has some value, but not to the point of spending an entire two year course on it. Also, the short story aspect should be scraped, I dont see the use of it at all.

 

[Absolutezero]

That's a very good idea (I personally didn't see much change from year 10 english to HSC Standard apart from new texts we were given to learn about lool), I think like Mathematics, Sciences, HSIE and whatever in the junior years, students should have the autonomy to choose whether or not to do the same thing for English or not on the prelim and HSC scale.

Or if that's not the case, they could just change the things we learn, I mean learning about things like Belonging and Journey is quite ridiculous and utterly boring. I don't see how this is going to benefit us in the future?

The reason you learn things like Belonging and Journey's is because learning the theory without doing the prac would be bother incredibly boring and most useless. So they pick a broad topic to apply it.

 

[kaz1]

The reason you learn things like Belonging and Journey's is because learning the theory without doing the prac would be bother incredibly boring and most useless. So they pick a broad topic to apply it.

It's already boring and useless.

 

[Absolutezero]

It's already boring and useless.

I knew this answer was coming; so just think how worse it would be if it was just theory.

English is what you make of it. Don't treat it as a terrible thing, and it won't be. Seriously, you get to pick half the texts you have to study. Pick something you love, and it'll be a lot more interesting.

 

[Shadowdude]

English should not be compulsory.

especially if you want to do a job that is entirely based on mathematics.

or even council work.

don't see how writing essays in 40 minutes will be of any benefit for those circumstances to be honest.

You do realise that at higher levels of uni maths, part of the marks come from writing style and how well you can present a mathematical argument in English.

And same thing in the workplace, I'd envision.


There's no lovely answer at the back of the book in the real world. So you have to write your maths up properly, in English, so that others can understand it, look at it and examine the process to see if you're right or not.


Yes the current system is horrible but it at least attempts to help you synthesise information and organise a coherent argument in written form.

 

[George121]

You do realise that at higher levels of uni maths, part of the marks come from writing style and how well you can present a mathematical argument in English.

And same thing in the workplace, I'd envision.


There's no lovely answer at the back of the book in the real world. So you have to write your maths up properly, in English, so that others can understand it, look at it and examine the process to see if you're right or not.


Yes the current system is horrible but it at least attempts to help you synthesise information and organise a coherent argument in written form.

The above can be achieved whether english is compulsory or not.
By compulsory, i mean that it shouldn't automatically count towards your ATAR, especially if you score less than a band 5, and you score band 6 in all your other subjects.

i just think it's unfair how one subject can have such an effect on your ATAR whether you do well or not.

 

[Shadowdude]

Yes but if that occurred then I'd be like "stuff this. i'll just do my other subject's homework now because this doesn't count for anything"

 

[Absolutezero]

Yes but if that occurred then I'd be like "stuff this. i'll just do my other subject's homework now because this doesn't count for anything"

I think they mean in the sense of not having it compulsory, which of course, contradicts the reasoning for it that you provided.

 

[kfnmpah]

Quit complaining, just study for your english exam and get it over and done with.
My theories are
a) It should be compulsory but not be a compulsory 2 units towards your UAI
OR
b) either 2u maths OR adv. english should be compulsory depending on your other subjects/whatever you want to choose. General maths and standard english would still be available, if you want to choose them, but you have to do a higher level of either maths or english. If you're doing chem, phys etc, you would pick maths if you're doing mod/anc history etc, you would do English. Or you can choose both or you can do phys and chem and do just english, whatever, but I reckon people would like it a lot more if they could choose between the two.

In short, make me prime minister.
The end.

my oh my how opinions change

i think english and maths should be compulsory, however the curriculum needs a massive overhaul

now that I know what maths is out there, way more interesting stuff could be taught in schools and taught differently.
english should be compulsory, but it shouldn't be about over-analysing verbose texts. More university-style classes and discussion are the answer. Give kids some credit and make lessons engaging rather than an X-minute time block to be spoon fed essays to memorise

Technology is changing and schools just aren't keeping up and as a result kids are not being stimulated in schools (except by priests in catholic boys' schools amirite)

 

[George121]

I think they mean in the sense of not having it compulsory, which of course, contradicts the reasoning for it that you provided.

It would be the same thing as sitting on 12 units though.

I personally think a majority of students prefer to be on 10 units because english already counts, and the other 8 units would obviously be their strongest subjects

Think of it like a normal subject. You choose the amount of study you want to put in (especially if you're crap at writing essays, like me) and if you feel that you can get your 90+ ATAR with the subject, then you keep trying for it, otherwise, you won't worry too much about it, and just focus on the remaining subjects that YOU were able to choose based on YOUR strengths, rather than being assigned something that will make or break you.

Think of it this way. You are really good a soccer, but you're not allowed to play soccer because your country/family won't support it, and you can only play football. Yes you can train to become good at the sport, but deep down, you know that you would be better off playing soccer. (that may be a bad example, but you get what i'm saying)

 

[mirakon]

my oh my how opinions change

i think english and maths should be compulsory, however the curriculum needs a massive overhaul

now that I know what maths is out there, way more interesting stuff could be taught in schools and taught differently.
english should be compulsory, but it shouldn't be about over-analysing verbose texts. More university-style classes and discussion are the answer. Give kids some credit and make lessons engaging rather than an X-minute time block to be spoon fed essays to memorise

Technology is changing and schools just aren't keeping up and as a result kids are not being stimulated in schools (except by priests in catholic boys' schools amirite)

But is that really a problem with the curriculum or how individual teachers choose to teach it?

 

[George121]

But is that really a problem with the curriculum or how individual teachers choose to teach it?

i hate how people blame the teacher.

Since year 7, i have had 6 different teachers. If you are interested in the subject and want the it to count to your ATAR (if it wasn't compulsory) then you would do your own work outside of school. The teacher is only there to provide you with the basics; it's your job to expand on it yourself.

At the end of the day, English shouldn't be compulsory, in the sense that it won't count to your ATAR unless you achieve higher than your other subjects.

Remember, it isn't the teacher who will be sitting the exam though, whether they teach the good things or not. If you struggle/dislike how they teach, there is always others who can give you feedback, and you can always pay for a tutor.

In conclusion, ENGLISH SHOULDN'T AUTOMATICALLY COUNT TO YOUR ATAR.

peace, i have an exam in 9 hours, and an essay to memorize.

 

[kfnmpah]

But is that really a problem with the curriculum or how individual teachers choose to teach it?

curriculum

the curriculum and general aims of our education system pressure teachers to teach to the syllabus dot points.
think about how many times you asked your teacher 'which dot point is this'

of course some teachers are shit but the curriculum is letting everyone down. good teachers, bad teachers, good students, 'bad' students.

 

[mirakon]

Ah ok

 

[kfnmpah]

yes you acquire the ability to over-analyse texts and hence ruins books and movies for yourself forever
you also acquire the ability to rote learn

standardised testing is for squares.

 

[lilazna55a5in]

No, how will poetry and Shakespeare help me when I want to pursue science.
It will only lower my ATAR =[
I hate it!

that's so true all english does is prevent you from achieving your best atar