English is stupid (2 Viewers)

[Shadowless]

I love English, and I certainly don't find it "stupid" as has been said. But despite this, I don't think it should be compulsory. I appreciate that English develops critical thinking skills which are important in day to day life, but I feel that these skills are limited through the exploration of literature alone. I like literature, and thus I enjoy the subject, but for those who don't, being forced to do it just amplifies their hate for it. I don't like Visual Arts for instance, yet I can appreciate the workmanship behind certain artworks, and the complex philosophical ideas behind art theory. But if I was forced to study it in depth, I would be bored out of my mind, and while I may still acknowledge its aesthetic integrity (so far as my passions don't cloud my reason), my experiences with Art would forever be tainted by the experiences I had with it in high school. Same applies for English. As the Board of Studies has prescribed in the syllabus:



Well I'm sure most people would be able to value literature and the English language if it wasn't forced down their throats. For those who don't, there's nothing you can do to change them anyway. And personally, I think the idea of aiming to make students "enjoy" literature, is quite silly. Let's face it, if you're not a reader, you're not a reader. Simple as that. No amount of HSC English is going to make you enjoy it more (unless of course what you read causes you to have a major revelation on your perspectives of life, in which case, good for you).

The importance of using the English language in various textual forms and forming effective communication skills is important, fair enough, but in order to become more effective communicators, I think we need to expand beyond drawing our ideas solely from literature, or the occasional film. So back to my original point, I think a compulsory critical thinking subject needs to be developed that is relevant to a wide range of academic and social contexts; this will negate student's common sentiments of distaste and sense of redundancy about the activities they are partaking in. A general Philosophy course would be more beneficial in fostering these critical thinking skills, plus you can apply that knowledge to many areas across both the arts and sciences, which I think would appeal to a greater audience. It may still have its skeptics, but at least it widens its scope. Plus it would still test your essay skills and what not.

Really, I don't think there's anything that HSC English can do which a study of Philosophy cannot. Keep English as an elective subject, sure, bookworms like me would enjoy the specialised study. But in terms of satisfying what the Board of Studies aims to achieve through the compulsory study of English, I think expanding our analysis into the philosophical aspects of technology, science, business and other real world applications, when used in cohesion with the philosophy of literature and the Arts, will allow these aims to be achieved with much higher success.

+1

 

[russ3l]

hey, bullshitting is an important life skill!

 

[simskee]

Why does english have to count towards our ATAR

 

[RealiseNothing]

Wasn't it said before that English is also compulsory so that international students don't just choose maths and science and take all the 99.95 spots etc.

 

[aceer]

Wasn't it said before that English is also compulsory so that international students don't just choose maths and science and take all the 99.95 spots etc.

Yep

 

[JINOUGA]

Please stay on topic, this is not a shadowdude relationship thread

 

[jnney]

I quite like English.

I think that the reason why so many students don't enjoy it is because of the way that it is taught at school my teachers. Your texts become a whole lot more interesting and meaningful when you embark on your own research.

 

[RivalryofTroll]

During junior years, from Years 7 to 10, I quite hated the subject.

In Year 11, it has grown on me and yeah, I actually like it to an extent nowadays.

Extension 1 English was enjoyable (more enjoyable than Advanced English) and I don't regret picking it for Year 11 despite dropping it for MX2 in Year 12.

It's not the best subject but it's the not the worst either. It's a good subject because there's no right or wrong answer when you have evidence to prove your case.

 

[someth1ng]

I don't like English but there's a reason that English is compulsory - it generally favours local students.

 

[Sanjeet]

Why not make it compulsory for just international students?

 

[Shadowless]

Why not make its compulsory for just international students?

+1

 

[Absolutezero]

Because that's missing the point entirely.

 

[petermik]

worst thing that is happening in my life. Not my fault I am not a natural at it. Teachers can't teach it. Cant really study it lol if I practise it I have another 6 subjects..

 

[2xL]

Holy fuckery of buddha, back in Satan's classroom for first period. The boredom that currently exists in my head can not be described in words.

 

[dggamer]

Today is R U OK Day. I'm not fucking okay, because i have fucking English.

 

[2xL]

To get an excellent English mark, you really do need to be ideas and values-focused in your essays. In my opinion, the subject is supposed to be focused upon general aspects of human nature that will be eternally relevant (belonging, conflicting perspectives), and then the use of a wide range of texts is merely to support those ideas, or provide proof. If you or your teacher view English as being all about the analysis of a text, then either or both of you are focusing too narrowly on the subject. Just because you have a shit tennis coach, or you hate tennis, or the specific rules of a certain competition don't appeal to you, or you take no pleasure in sport whether for leisure or for health reasons, does that mean the entire notion of tennis is stupid?

Yes, a composer may not say to herself, "I am employing the use of emotive language here to evoke sympathy from the audience" - that is absolutely ridiculous. However, she is probably feeling overwhelmed, wanting sympathy, and subconsciously inclined to speak in such a way that others will pity her. Of course, no writer would consider, "Should I use morbid imagery here to convey ideas of death and mortality, or barbaric connotations to provoke disgust?". Instead, it will probably come naturally to him, just like it is natural for you to:



employ the use of crude, vulgar language in order to convey your strong disgust of the subject.

That is exactly the same as being like:
A: "I fucking hate this shit excuse for a subject." - (Composer)
B: 'Hey C, why is A swearing so much?' - (Essay question/marker)
C: 'He mad.' - (Your interpretation, response/answer to the question)

- except that you're attempting to convey it appropriately in an essay format, just like how you can't just say 'The answer is 35cm because it just fucking is' in a maths test, and instead need to convey it appropriately with logical reasoning and working out.

In English, the markers want us to do several things - understand common themes and values and develop complexity of ideas, convey this understanding appropriately and effectively, and develop personal expression and fluidity of language. Yeah, you can get away with a half-decent mark without actually doing any of these things properly, but you can get away with a half-decent mark in any subject even if you don't learn everything properly.

tl;dr

 

[timeslowsdown]

Yes I hate english too. But there is no point complaining about it! At the end of the day you're still going to have to sit the two exams so deal with it! And then after that you can run free LOL

 

[tarod]

I can understand the frustration amongst students that have a bitter distaste for English. In year 11, I spent $60 a week on tutoring yet consistently achieved results of 10-11/ 15 and was around 100 ranking wise. I utterly hated the subject - full of bullshit - it seemed that markers gave me these bad marks because they hated my existence...

In year 12, I got an awesome English teacher who was actually passionate about the subject. He made us see how the author's of our texts explored great, abstract notions of time, death, and life in concrete ways. He made us see that writing essays were just another form of communication; how they were a test of our logic, and articulation; how these same skills of clear communication and persuasion are vital for all applications in the workforce.

Somehow...this got through to me and I actually started enjoying the subject. In year 12 I never lost a mark in essays (apart from 3 marks in the trials) and I'm currently ranked 1 (in a selective)

tl;dr: if you change your mentality, stopping seeing english as BS, and see how the skills of logic and critical thinking can apply to life in general: then you will get better

 

[Clean Sweep]

In year 12, I got an awesome English teacher who was actually passionate about the subject. He made us see how the author's of our texts explored great, abstract notions of time, death, and life in concrete ways. He made us see that writing essays were just another form of communication; how they were a test of our logic, and articulation; how these same skills of clear communication and persuasion are vital for all applications in the workforce.

Examples?
The only reason why I like my English class is because my teacher is HOT.

 

[hayabusaboston]

Do u guys reckon we could make a statewide petition to make english COMPULSORY, but NOT counting for ATAR? in that, you get a separate report of english performance along with your HSC report. That way your actual academic ability can be analysed without the immediate dismissal of a lower ATAR because you fucked english.

I reckon a separate booklet saying what u achieved in english advanced should be issued, and all other subjects to count to HSC>