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The Loaded Dog: HSC exams - Sun Herald (2 Viewers)

OzKo

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SMH said:
This week's topic for The Sun-Herald's weekly column The Loaded Dog is:


As HSC written exams are set to begin next week, does society put too much pressure on students to achieve academically at the expense of a well-rounded education?


We invite entries of no more than 150 words. Please send them to loadeddog@sunherald.com.au by 10am on Friday.

Please include your full name, email address, telephone number and the suburb where you live.


Advertisement
With a nod to Henry Lawson's popular tale of the same name, The Loaded Dog isa forum for readers to debate a set topic each week.

Kate Cox, Editor
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/the-loaded-dog-hsc-exams-20121010-27clk.html

Considering that you guys are doing your HSC at the moment, perhaps it would be a good idea to send in your opinions as well so you can present an opinion which is representative of what you guys are going through?
 

George121

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Re: The Loaded Dog: HSC exams - Sydney Morning Herald

It's not so much society..

It's more teachers and schools who put the pressure
 

enoilgam

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Re: The Loaded Dog: HSC exams - Sydney Morning Herald

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/the-loaded-dog-hsc-exams-20121010-27clk.html

Considering that you guys are doing your HSC at the moment, perhaps it would be a good idea to send in your opinions as well so you can present an opinion which is representative of what you guys are going through?
Even though I did my HSC two years ago, I could think of about 2,000 words which could express what I think on this topic. I wouldnt know how to drop it to 150 words.
 

George121

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Re: The Loaded Dog: HSC exams - Sydney Morning Herald

Even though I did my HSC two years ago, I could think of about 2,000 words which could express what I think on this topic. I wouldnt know how to drop it to 150 words.
care to share some of your thoughts?

Any improvements required? E.g. English -.-
 

enoilgam

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Re: The Loaded Dog: HSC exams - Sydney Morning Herald

care to share some of your thoughts?

Any improvements required? E.g. English -.-
Long story short I think we have become obsessed with academic achievement at any cost. I think there is this perception going around that unless you have a high quality uni degree, you will be unsuccessful in life. We place to much faith in academic achievement as being the key to a happy and successful life. Whilst it is important, our obsession with it is over the top.
 

George121

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Re: The Loaded Dog: HSC exams - Sydney Morning Herald

Long story short I think we have become obsessed with academic achievement at any cost. I think there is this perception going around that unless you have a high quality uni degree, you will be unsuccessful in life. We place to much faith in academic achievement as being the key to a happy and successful life. Whilst it is important, our obsession with it is over the top.
my thoughts were that the fact that there is pathways available, and uni's that actually accept students without just ATAR requirements is a good thing -- however, its the constant pressure that is placed on students before and during the HSC that brings forth the idea you just mention

I think that it is good to tell students to do good, but school isn't for everyone, and teachers/government need to acknowledge and accept that - some people would rather work, some would rather do tafe, and others want to be professional gamer addicts - government shouldn't get involved
 

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Re: The Loaded Dog: HSC exams - Sydney Morning Herald

Long story short I think we have become obsessed with academic achievement at any cost. I think there is this perception going around that unless you have a high quality uni degree, you will be unsuccessful in life. We place to much faith in academic achievement as being the key to a happy and successful life. Whilst it is important, our obsession with it is over the top.
+1.

It's incredibly annoying and kind of sad that I can't remember the last english lesson where the words "HSC exam'' weren't mentioned. Remember a couple of years ago when people were going all up against anorexia/ bulimia? All those ''the fashion industry is shallow'' statements? Well, the focus society places on HSC, uni results and what you major in, etc is as shallow as that. Some people don't have the mental and physical strength to get into 90 +. If you have ADHD, Dysthmia studying is made 100 times harder. Academia is so competitive and ugly, I have friends who refuse to help each other when it comes to school work to simply ''get ahead'' and laugh at there poor results. It is awful and wrong that people on here are terrified of their families around Christmas time. And then someone has to say ''the HSC isn't everything'' and I always cringe, because yes, we know that, but society has made a stigma towards people who undergo TAFE or don't go to university- and hence, it's humiliating. You will be typecasted as a dumb idiot that didn't try. You will instantly be compared to your peers and siblings.

I honestly haven't learnt anything worthwhile in my last 6 years at school. Except useless ''exam technique.'' If I were an author, I'd hate my novels to be studied during year 11 & 12.

Plus, if you are going to have a conversation with me or perhaps a HSC student, perhaps you can talk about something else besides the exams?
 

deswa1

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Re: The Loaded Dog: HSC exams - Sydney Morning Herald

+1.

It's incredibly annoying and kind of sad that I can't remember the last english lesson where the words "HSC exam'' weren't mentioned. Remember a couple of years ago when people were going all up against anorexia/ bulimia? All those ''the fashion industry is shallow'' statements? Well, the focus society places on HSC, uni results and what you major in, etc is as shallow as that. Some people don't have the mental and physical strength to get into 90 +. If you have ADHD, Dysthmia studying is made 100 times harder. Academia is so competitive and ugly, I have friends who refuse to help each other when it comes to school work to simply ''get ahead'' and laugh at there poor results. It is awful and wrong that people on here are terrified of their families around Christmas time. And then someone has to say ''the HSC isn't everything'' and I always cringe, because yes, we know that, but society has made a stigma towards people who undergo TAFE or don't go to university- and hence, it's humiliating. You will be typecasted as a dumb idiot that didn't try. You will instantly be compared to your peers and siblings.

I honestly haven't learnt anything worthwhile in my last 6 years at school. Except useless ''exam technique.'' If I were an author, I'd hate my novels to be studied during year 11 & 12.

Plus, if you are going to have a conversation with me or perhaps a HSC student, perhaps you can talk about something else besides the exams?
Very good post imo
 

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Re: The Loaded Dog: HSC exams - Sydney Morning Herald

+1.

It's incredibly annoying and kind of sad that I can't remember the last english lesson where the words "HSC exam'' weren't mentioned. Remember a couple of years ago when people were going all up against anorexia/ bulimia? All those ''the fashion industry is shallow'' statements? Well, the focus society places on HSC, uni results and what you major in, etc is as shallow as that. Some people don't have the mental and physical strength to get into 90 +. If you have ADHD, Dysthmia studying is made 100 times harder. Academia is so competitive and ugly, I have friends who refuse to help each other when it comes to school work to simply ''get ahead'' and laugh at there poor results. It is awful and wrong that people on here are terrified of their families around Christmas time. And then someone has to say ''the HSC isn't everything'' and I always cringe, because yes, we know that, but society has made a stigma towards people who undergo TAFE or don't go to university- and hence, it's humiliating. You will be typecasted as a dumb idiot that didn't try. You will instantly be compared to your peers and siblings.

I honestly haven't learnt anything worthwhile in my last 6 years at school. Except useless ''exam technique.'' If I were an author, I'd hate my novels to be studied during year 11 & 12.

Plus, if you are going to have a conversation with me or perhaps a HSC student, perhaps you can talk about something else besides the exams?
Arr yes seems the go to and inescapable topic. Like enoilgram, I couldn't write it in 150 words.
 

Sy123

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Re: The Loaded Dog: HSC exams - Sydney Morning Herald

+1.

It's incredibly annoying and kind of sad that I can't remember the last english lesson where the words "HSC exam'' weren't mentioned. Remember a couple of years ago when people were going all up against anorexia/ bulimia? All those ''the fashion industry is shallow'' statements? Well, the focus society places on HSC, uni results and what you major in, etc is as shallow as that. Some people don't have the mental and physical strength to get into 90 +. If you have ADHD, Dysthmia studying is made 100 times harder. Academia is so competitive and ugly, I have friends who refuse to help each other when it comes to school work to simply ''get ahead'' and laugh at there poor results. It is awful and wrong that people on here are terrified of their families around Christmas time. And then someone has to say ''the HSC isn't everything'' and I always cringe, because yes, we know that, but society has made a stigma towards people who undergo TAFE or don't go to university- and hence, it's humiliating. You will be typecasted as a dumb idiot that didn't try. You will instantly be compared to your peers and siblings.

I honestly haven't learnt anything worthwhile in my last 6 years at school. Except useless ''exam technique.'' If I were an author, I'd hate my novels to be studied during year 11 & 12.

Plus, if you are going to have a conversation with me or perhaps a HSC student, perhaps you can talk about something else besides the exams?
Im sorry, but most of the pressure that has been applied to parents in their times under the academic spotlight has affected their ideology of how academia is now today. What Im saying is that during their time it was nigh on impossible to get a good job without getting good marks. You had to get good in your HSC in order to get a job. Australia is also a very multicultural society which adds to this pressure. The stereotype that immigrant parents pressure their kids is true because they have seen bad things in their home countries. And this is very much a true stereotype which is valid in assessing a lot of immigrant parents.

Though in modern soicety there are many pathways to get good jobs and to get into a good uni, and there are many opportunities in life now compared to many decades ago the ideology that the HSC is very important still rests on the minds of many parents and you cant blame them. After all who are they going to trust? Their own life experiences with what life has, or a 17/18 year old kid who says the HSC isnt that important (yes it might be true but its hard to believe). Society does not place emphasis on academia it simply places emphasis on money and power and therefore the problem does not lie in academia and learning and in pressures to learn, but the problem lies within society's emphasis on the value of money and fame.

And in my opinion there is nothing wrong with society placing emphasis on money because going down to the very roots of it humans need to survive and in this day and age you need money. You want to live a good life without having to rely on the dole right? Well then 30 years ago if you didnt want that to be your fate then you needed to work incredibly hard in the HSC, nowadays this is less the case, and once this generation becomes the parents of the age they will tell their kids that their HSC isnt the most important thing in your life.

This nihilistic view of the HSC is just as annoying as the one that the HSC is the most important thing in your life, its ridiculous. Saying that no one should be caring about the HSC because there are more important things in life, yes maybe for you the more important thing is happiness (lol), for other people its living life with a lot of money in order to keep a family running, in order to live safe and to live an although stressful an uneventful life of money earning and spending.

I disagree completely that academia is too competitive and ugly. Academia doesnt have to be nihilistic you know, there are some people who hate maths but are willing to do 4U for the scaling, there are people out there who hate Law and do it for the money, and there is nothing wrong with that. The reason why there is nothing wrong with that because it is all based on the philosophy that the world is a dog-eat-dog world, the philosophy that you need money in order to live a safe life and it is due to that philosohpy that people are so competitive about academia, in the end I can easily say that about 50% of the doctors of the world actually are doctors because they truly truly enjoy it, and the rest are all money driven and that is absolutely fine as long as their job is done right.

Academia is a wonderful and very beautiful thing and so is competition, competition allows us to see the extent of what the human brain can show us. The Russians being the first to space was a great engineering and scientific achievement and was only available to come about due to the rivalry and competition between the Soviets and the US (then comes Apollo moon landing etc.) I could go on further and further about how competition has advanced the human civilisation and how it has shown the true potential of the human brain. The ability the human brain has if we just put in a little grunt work.

If you havent learnt anything worthwile during the last 6 years of your schooling and you are typecasted as a dumb idiot then they have a point. Its stupid to simply ignore this education and be totally ignorant about it 'oh whinge whinge the world isnt how I like it to be, too competitive whinge whinge'. But of course maybe you also didnt learn anything because of your decision to pick crappy subjects (still your fault for picking them). Even though Im only at the beginning of my HSC I can easily say that I have learnt ALOT of things about the world around me, about philosophy and and at the same time picking up good life skills.

Ridiculous.
 
Last edited:

deswa1

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Re: The Loaded Dog: HSC exams - Sydney Morning Herald

Im sorry, but most of the pressure that has been applied to parents in their times under the academic spotlight has affected their ideology of how academia is now today. What Im saying is that during their time it was nigh on impossible to get a good job without getting good marks. You had to get good in your HSC in order to get a job. Australia is also a very multicultural society which adds to this pressure, the stereotype that immigrant parents pressure their kids because they have seen bad things in their home countries is very much a true stereotype which is valid in assessing a lot of immigrant parents.

Though in modern soicety there are many pathways to get good jobs and to get into a good uni, and there are many opportunities in life now compared to many decades ago the ideology that the HSC is very important still rests on the minds of many parents and you cant blame them. After all who are they going to trust? Their own life experiences with what life has or a 17/18 year old kid who says the HSC isnt that important (yes it might be true but its hard to believe). Society does not place emphasis on academia it simply places emphasis on money and power and therefore the problem does not lie in academia and learning and in pressures to learn but the problem lies within society's emphasis on the value of money and fame.

And in my opinion there is nothing wrong with society placing emphasis on money because going down to the very roots of it humans need to survive and in this day and age you need money. You want to live a good life without having to rely on the dole right? Well then 30 years ago if you didnt want that to be your fate then you needed to work incredibly hard in the HSC, nowadays this is less the case, and once this generation becomes the parents of the age they will tell their kids (alot of them) that their HSC isnt the most important thing in your life.

This nihilistic view of the HSC is just as annoying as the one that the HSC is the most important thing in your life, its ridiculous. Saying that no one should be caring about the HSC because there are more important things in life, yes maybe for you the more important thing is happiness (lol), for other people its living life with a lot of money in order to keep a family running, in order to live a safe and to live an although stressful an uneventful life of money earning and spending.

I disagree completely that academia is too competitive and ugly. Academia doesnt have to be nihilistic you know, there are some people who hate maths but are willing to do 4U for the scaling, there are people out there who hate Law and do it for the money, and there is nothing wrong with that. The reason why there is nothing wrong with that because it is all based on the philosophy that the world is a dog-eat-dog world, the philosophy that you need money in order to live a safe life and it is that philosohpy that people are so competitive about academia, in the end I can easily say that about 50% of the doctors of the world actually are doctors because they truly truly enjoy it, and the rest are all money driven and that is absolutely fine as long as their job is done right.

Academia is a wonderful and very beautiful thing and so is competition, competition allows us to see the extent of what the human brain can show us. The Russians being the first to space was a great engineering and scientific achievement and was only available to come about due to the rivalry and competition between the Soviets and the US (then comes Apollo moon landing etc.) I could go on further and further about how competition has advanced the human civilisation and how it has shown the true potential of the human brain. The ability it has if we just put in a little grunt work.

If you havent learnt anything worthwile during the last 6 years of your schooling and you are typecasted as a dumb idiot then they have a point. Its stupid to simply ignore this education and be totally nihilistic about it 'oh whinge whinge the world isnt how I like it to be, too competitive whinge whinge'. But of course maybe you also didnt learn anything because of your decision to pick crappy subjects (still your fault for picking them). Only at the beginning of my HSC I can easily say that I have learnt ALOT of things about the world around me, about philosophy and and at the same time picking up good life skills.

Ridiculous.
I agree a lot with this post too (lol why do I agree with conflicting posts?)
 

Bored_of_HSC

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Re: The Loaded Dog: HSC exams - Sydney Morning Herald

Im sorry, but most of the pressure that has been applied to parents in their times under the academic spotlight has affected their ideology of how academia is now today. What Im saying is that during their time it was nigh on impossible to get a good job without getting good marks. You had to get good in your HSC in order to get a job. Australia is also a very multicultural society which adds to this pressure, the stereotype that immigrant parents pressure their kids because they have seen bad things in their home countries is very much a true stereotype which is valid in assessing a lot of immigrant parents.

Though in modern soicety there are many pathways to get good jobs and to get into a good uni, and there are many opportunities in life now compared to many decades ago the ideology that the HSC is very important still rests on the minds of many parents and you cant blame them. After all who are they going to trust? Their own life experiences with what life has or a 17/18 year old kid who says the HSC isnt that important (yes it might be true but its hard to believe). Society does not place emphasis on academia it simply places emphasis on money and power and therefore the problem does not lie in academia and learning and in pressures to learn but the problem lies within society's emphasis on the value of money and fame.

And in my opinion there is nothing wrong with society placing emphasis on money because going down to the very roots of it humans need to survive and in this day and age you need money. You want to live a good life without having to rely on the dole right? Well then 30 years ago if you didnt want that to be your fate then you needed to work incredibly hard in the HSC, nowadays this is less the case, and once this generation becomes the parents of the age they will tell their kids (alot of them) that their HSC isnt the most important thing in your life.

This nihilistic view of the HSC is just as annoying as the one that the HSC is the most important thing in your life, its ridiculous. Saying that no one should be caring about the HSC because there are more important things in life, yes maybe for you the more important thing is happiness (lol), for other people its living life with a lot of money in order to keep a family running, in order to live a safe and to live an although stressful an uneventful life of money earning and spending.

I disagree completely that academia is too competitive and ugly. Academia doesnt have to be nihilistic you know, there are some people who hate maths but are willing to do 4U for the scaling, there are people out there who hate Law and do it for the money, and there is nothing wrong with that. The reason why there is nothing wrong with that because it is all based on the philosophy that the world is a dog-eat-dog world, the philosophy that you need money in order to live a safe life and it is that philosohpy that people are so competitive about academia, in the end I can easily say that about 50% of the doctors of the world actually are doctors because they truly truly enjoy it, and the rest are all money driven and that is absolutely fine as long as their job is done right.

Academia is a wonderful and very beautiful thing and so is competition, competition allows us to see the extent of what the human brain can show us. The Russians being the first to space was a great engineering and scientific achievement and was only available to come about due to the rivalry and competition between the Soviets and the US (then comes Apollo moon landing etc.) I could go on further and further about how competition has advanced the human civilisation and how it has shown the true potential of the human brain. The ability it has if we just put in a little grunt work.

If you havent learnt anything worthwile during the last 6 years of your schooling and you are typecasted as a dumb idiot then they have a point. Its stupid to simply ignore this education and be totally nihilistic about it 'oh whinge whinge the world isnt how I like it to be, too competitive whinge whinge'. But of course maybe you also didnt learn anything because of your decision to pick crappy subjects (still your fault for picking them). Only at the beginning of my HSC I can easily say that I have learnt ALOT of things about the world around me, about philosophy and and at the same time picking up good life skills.

Ridiculous.
tl;dr
 

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Re: The Loaded Dog: HSC exams - Sydney Morning Herald

Im sorry, but most of the pressure that has been applied to parents in their times under the academic spotlight has affected their ideology of how academia is now today. What Im saying is that during their time it was nigh on impossible to get a good job without getting good marks. You had to get good in your HSC in order to get a job. Australia is also a very multicultural society which adds to this pressure, the stereotype that immigrant parents pressure their kids because they have seen bad things in their home countries is very much a true stereotype which is valid in assessing a lot of immigrant parents...
Tone down on the nihilism, I'm starting to have an existential crisis...
 

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Re: The Loaded Dog: HSC exams - Sydney Morning Herald

Would have done that but instead read the whole thing and it was a pretty good read in my opinion.
Really, it was a bunch of half-baked sentences with barely a thread of coherent logic tying everything together. I'd like to refute literally every point he made but wasting my time doing it would make me even more mad than I am right now, after spending two minutes reading that garbage.

P.S. Sorry for flaming. I'm calm now.
 

Bored_of_HSC

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Re: The Loaded Dog: HSC exams - Sydney Morning Herald

Would have done that but instead read the whole thing and it was a pretty good read in my opinion.
Yeah lol i did it and then i read both posts.

I can see both points of view. But can seem to reconcile them though with the view that these two people clearly have different goals in life, so each perspective is valid insofar to the individual. (which i think sy was getting at)

In the end, choose who you want to hang around/be with. If you're with people of similar mindsets then none of this should matter at all.
 

Bored_of_HSC

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Re: The Loaded Dog: HSC exams - Sydney Morning Herald

Really, it was a bunch of half-baked sentences with barely a thread of coherent logic tying everything together. I'd like to refute literally every point he made but wasting my time doing it would make me even more mad than I am right now, after spending two minutes reading that garbage.

P.S. Sorry for flaming. I'm calm now.
Give an overall view of your arguement against it then.
 

Sy123

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Re: The Loaded Dog: HSC exams - Sydney Morning Herald

Really, it was a bunch of half-baked sentences with barely a thread of coherent logic tying everything together. I'd like to refute literally every point he made but wasting my time doing it would make me even more mad than I am right now, after spending two minutes reading that garbage.

P.S. Sorry for flaming. I'm calm now.
Fair enough, alot of what I said was just me typing off the top of my head so it might of made sense in my head but it might not be gramatically correct. Give an argument against the general idea of my post though (if you want). (While I edit what I can, about what might be an insult to grammar)]

EDIT: Fixed what I can
 
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Obvious

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Re: The Loaded Dog: HSC exams - Sydney Morning Herald

Give an overall view of your arguement against it then.
His main argument is based on circular logic. He's using what I'm assuming is anecdotal evidence to support some of his points, which are also wrong.

Fair enough, alot of what I said was just me typing off the top of my head so it might of made sense in my head but it might not be gramatically correct. Give an argument against the general idea of my post though (if you want). (While I edit what I can, about what might be an insult to grammar)
Don't worry about it =). Unless you're a native English speaker making mistakes is absolutely fine. But please, please, please, tl;dr the next time.
 
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Sy123

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Re: The Loaded Dog: HSC exams - Sydney Morning Herald

His main argument is based on circular logic. He's using what I'm assuming is anecdotal evidence to support some of his points, which are also wrong.
No I am not using anecdotal evidence, read my post. I am saying that the reason parents place so much importance on academics and the HSC is because they believe that you really NEED to get good in the HSC in order to get a good life hence money. I am using the examples to illustrate how my arguments are shown in the real world. Please pick out what is wrong in my posts. I cant give a good rebuttal if you simply make a general statement about my post
 

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