The Scaling of Extension 2 Maths in recent years (2 Viewers)

[cheepy5]

can be directly attributed to english lol

 

[Nooblet94]

Just because a student can't get E4 in MX1, doesn't mean he or she doesn't deserve to do MX2.

MX1 isn't THAT hard. If you're not looking like at least a high E3 you're going to do shite in MX2.

 

[astaroth]

MX1 isn't THAT hard. If you're not looking like at least a high E3 you're going to do shite in MX2.

Not really though.
I know a couple of my friends who missed out on high E3s, let alone E4s, for MX1, nevertheless, they did alright in MX2. [they got mid E3s for MX1 and MX2]
Also, 4U students may miss out on a high E3 or E4 for MX1 not because they are weak but because they need to study for their other subjects to further rise their ATAR.

 

[Sy123]

Not really though.
I know a couple of my friends who missed out on high E3s, let alone E4s, for MX1, nevertheless, they did alright in MX2. [they got mid E3s for MX1 and MX2]
Also, 4U students may miss out on a high E3 or E4 for MX1 not because they are weak but because they need to study for their other subjects to further rise their ATAR.

'If you do 4U, 3U becomes a breeze' nearly every 4U student that I have met has said this. And that should be true as well.

 

[barbernator]

Scaling is based on a complex algorithm that nobody really knows, yet is reflective of the cohort's performance when moderated against their english performance. Enoilgam, I get your point about the high scaling, but it is the cohort in itself that dictates the high scaling, so it is only fair that it scales as well as it has. If the whole 4u cohort switched to general maths, and the whole general maths cohort switched to 4u, General maths would scale as well as 4u maths has in previous years.

 

[enoilgam]

Scaling is based on a complex algorithm that nobody really knows, yet is reflective of the cohort's performance when moderated against their english performance. Enoilgam, I get your point about the high scaling, but it is the cohort in itself that dictates the high scaling, so it is only fair that it scales as well as it has. If the whole 4u cohort switched to general maths, and the whole general maths cohort switched to 4u, General maths would scale as well as 4u maths has in previous years.

I can definitely see that - the system is obviously designed to be objective in the way that it scales subjects and rightfully so. My observation was more based on my subjective view of things.

 

[nifkeh]

lol starting the course with mechanics before even learning basic 2U trig integration

yep

Selective Schools that just assume all of their students can do it and then let whoever do it, even though they aren't even capable of an E4 in MX1. And some of these schools can't teach MX2 for shit (Sydney Girls, I'm looking at you).

SBHS & JRAHS are ranked for MX2, not everyone can do it (top 100 I think). there are probs more. SGHS said that while you are free to do MX2, they would give you a talking to drop if you were doing sub par. I think we started with 100 people or so but dropped to 75-85 or so dunno. But hey the MX2 teachers aren't bad, some teachers for maths are kinda meh *cough*

 

[asianese]

This is very off-topic but: for those top achieving X2 students, do you think X1 just becomes a game of how many silly mistakes one can keep down?



Back on topic: some students really cling onto X2 because they've spent thousands of dollars on tutoring, even though they, 1. do not put in the effort to study, and 2. are not interested in maths at all. This is also a group affecting the scaling of MX2.

 

[nifkeh]

even if it was the increased availability of tutors it's not a fault in the system, just means people are doing better for the course. I've noticed that people are bagging people who are 'less talented' doing MX2 to be the problem of bringing the scaling down, but I heard this from my teacher: if the overall raw marks of people sits quite high for the course (for MX1 in 2012, the most common mark the graph peaked at was at a mid E3, with the majority of marks sitting in E3 and E4, and this is about 60-70% of everyone who sat it but these are moderated exam marks) when compared to the raw marks of people doing English - if the MX2 average raw marks are slightly lower than the average raw english marks then it will experience some scaling. if the raw MX2 average is significantly lower than the raw english average then yes it will experience lots more.

The recent trend is that people are performing better in maths than in previous years hence the scaling is lower, it's not because of more people doing it now that these 'newcomers' aren't doing well, hence dragging it down because in reality these are not a significant chunk of people, the majority are doing very well. Now this sudden ish trend in better maths performance can be due to tutoring or not but if this trend continues it just means maths will align poorer sooner or later. Not because people that are doing it are not serious are just doing it because of scaling well for any mark or because of the increased size in cohort for the subject.

Look at things like IPT and ancient history for example. Why do these subjects scale 'bad'? It's because the raw marks for these subjects are higher than the raw marks for english, so the scaling for IPT & ancient is quite bad than compared to things like maths as many people perform well in IPT and ancient, bringing the raw mark average up higher than english's. scaling is there to create an equilibrium in performance between all subjects. If overall the raw marks for MX2 are below those for English (which is a reference point) then yes the maths will be scaled to overcome this problem. Since IPT and ancient raw marks are quite high compared to English, it will experience some scaling down, adjusting the marks accordingly. I'm pretty sure people who don't really do well are present in both maths and things like ancient and IPT etc but it really depends on the overall/average raw mark, not this percentage of students. It's the quality of the whole cohort that influences the scaling, not the people who don't do well or are at the top end. Just my 2c

EDIT: I'm pretty sure in recent years there are more people doing sciences than previously. However the scaling of them still stands quite high, like maths when compared to subs like Ancient history and IPT. If the increased cohort in maths including people that aren't doing well is the reason for maths scaling badly recently, then how could the sciences be explained by this reason, given that the cohorts for them have increased in the past 5-10 years and people that also don't do as well are present, yet the scaling isn't affected and still high.

 

[Sy123]

This is very off-topic but: for those top achieving X2 students, do you think X1 just becomes a game of how many silly mistakes one can keep down?



Back on topic: some students really cling onto X2 because they've spent thousands of dollars on tutoring, even though they, 1. do not put in the effort to study, and 2. are not interested in maths at all. This is also a group affecting the scaling of MX2.

There comes a point where you can't just keep blaming silly mistakes anymore, if 'silly mistakes' are the sole reason for a mark from 100 raw drops to 80 (which achieves a 95 HSC mark I think), then there are different factors at play, maybe the student was really nervous for the exam - this is not the fault of the actual test paper.

3U may feel like a race to where the least silly mistakes are made, that depends on the quality of the exams internally, easy exams will naturally mean that is the case and this is no different to 4U. The easier the exams, the less skill is accounted for which is what exams should be testing for in the first place. Math examinations should examine mathematical skill as well as mathematical knowledge, not pathetic school papers from certain schools which give textbook level questions. At the extremely high levels yes it is a race to make the least silly mistakes but that is natural.

even if it was the increased availability of tutors it's not a fault in the system, just means people are doing better for the course. I've noticed that people are bagging people who are 'less talented' doing MX2 to be the problem of bringing the scaling down, but I heard this from my teacher: if the overall raw marks of people sits quite high for the course (for MX1 in 2012, the most common mark the graph peaked at was at a mid E3, with the majority of marks sitting in E3 and E4, and this is about 60-70% of everyone who sat it but these are moderated exam marks) when compared to the raw marks of people doing English - if the MX2 average raw marks are slightly lower than the average raw english marks then it will experience some scaling. if the raw MX2 average is significantly lower than the raw english average then yes it will experience lots more.

The recent trend is that people are performing better in maths than in previous years hence the scaling is lower, it's not because of more people doing it now that these 'newcomers' aren't doing well, hence dragging it down because in reality these are not a significant chunk of people, the majority are doing very well. Now this sudden ish trend in better maths performance can be due to tutoring or not but if this trend continues it just means maths will align poorer sooner or later. Not because people that are doing it are not serious are just doing it because of scaling well for any mark or because of the increased size in cohort for the subject.

Look at things like IPT and ancient history for example. Why do these subjects scale 'bad'? It's because the raw marks for these subjects are higher than the raw marks for english, so the scaling for IPT & ancient is quite bad than compared to things like maths as many people perform well in IPT and ancient, bringing the raw mark average up higher than english's. scaling is there to create an equilibrium in performance between all subjects. If overall the raw marks for MX2 are below those for English (which is a reference point) then yes the maths will be scaled to overcome this problem. Since IPT and ancient raw marks are quite high compared to English, it will experience some scaling down, adjusting the marks accordingly. I'm pretty sure people who don't really do well are present in both maths and things like ancient and IPT etc but it really depends on the overall/average raw mark, not this percentage of students. It's the quality of the whole cohort that influences the scaling, not the people who don't do well or are at the top end. Just my 2c

EDIT: I'm pretty sure in recent years there are more people doing sciences than previously. However the scaling of them still stands quite high, like maths when compared to subs like Ancient history and IPT. If the increased cohort in maths including people that aren't doing well is the reason for maths scaling badly recently, then how could the sciences be explained by this reason, given that the cohorts for them have increased in the past 5-10 years and people that also don't do as well are present, yet the scaling isn't affected and still high.

'Doing better in the course' can be an illusion to the decrease in difficulty of MX2 exams, as Carrotsticks has pointed out, lately the exams are becoming easier. The skill level of the students is decreasing on average due to the higher amount of people in the cohort, this is a fact and can be linked in with the increase in availability of tutors since they aid non-capable students to think that they are capable. This may sound really arrogant but its the truth.

I sincerely doubt if people are becoming better at maths overall, I am more prompted to think on average the MX2 cohort is getting worse and BoS is just lowering the difficulty of the papers to accommodate this. They don't want the average raw mark to be 40% or something.

IPT and Ancient History scale badly due to the cohort and their difficulty level, which is why they have higher raw amrks hence scaling worse.

The thing is Science do not really have a true difficulty within them (HSC science at least), its just a giant rote-fest and the more people who do it, the more people that just do the rote learning tactic and get an adequate enough mark. This is why scaling has remained constant. The marking is horrific which is another reason.

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