• Congratulations to the Class of 2024 on your results!
    Let us know how you went here
    Got a question about your uni preferences? Ask us here

induction conclusions (1 Viewer)

tywebb

dangerman
Joined
Dec 7, 2003
Messages
2,206
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
How does your teacher make you conclude inductions?

The hsc exam committee don't like typical textbook conclusions like since it is true for n=1 it is true for n=2 etc, therefore it is true for all positive integers:

The following is from the HSC exam committee:

---------------------------

I would like to comment on the induction part of the question.

It has come to my attention that many teachers are training their students to write some form of the following mantra at the end of induction problems.

The statement is true for n=1 and hence is true for n=2. The statement is true for n=2 and hence is true for n=3. The statement is true for n=3 and hence is true for n=4 and so on. Hence the statement is true for all integers n≥1 (by induction).

In many cases the words 'by induction' are omitted.

It needs to be pointed out that

(a) No marks are awarded for this mantra in the marking guidelines for the HSC.

(b) Much time is wasted writing it

(c) Most importantly, the above mantra, especially if the word induction is left out, is at best misleading.

There is a logical (and subtle) difficulty in trying to argue that because the statement is true for any positive integer n, it follows that it is true for all positive integers n. The axiom of induction is needed to fix this difficulty.

It would be better both mathematically, and for the students themselves, if they ended induction proofs with the simple statement

Hence the statement is true for all n≥1 by induction.

I might add that students who persist in writing this mantra actually LOSE marks in our discrete Mathematics courses at University, so teachers are not doing their students any service, either in the short term (HSC marks) or in the long term. I (and others) have been complaining about this for a long time but without success.
 
Last edited:

Trebla

Administrator
Administrator
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
8,401
Gender
Male
HSC
2006
Weren't those comments from like 10 years ago lol
 

Makematics

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Messages
1,829
Location
Sydney
Gender
Male
HSC
2013
How does you teacher make you conclude inductions?

The statement is true for n=1 and hence is true for n=2. The statement is true for n=2 and hence is true for n=3. The statement is true for n=3 and hence is true for n=4 and so on. Hence the statement is true for all integers n≥1 (by induction).
My teach has always said for us to write this :eek:
 

tywebb

dangerman
Joined
Dec 7, 2003
Messages
2,206
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
Weren't those comments from like 10 years ago lol
Yeah. Lol.

Sorry for dredging it up again. But it's still an issue. Some teachers are very stubborn.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 20, 2010
Messages
2,225
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2012
Hence true for all integers by mathematical induction.
 

Sy123

This too shall pass
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
3,730
Gender
Male
HSC
2013
The statement is true for n=1
If the statement is true for n=k, then it is true for n=k+1
Therefore it is true for all integers n => 1 by Mathematical Induction
 
Last edited:

braintic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
2,137
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
What annoys me is students who end the inductive step with the statement 'therefore true for n=k+1' without any indication of the dependence of this statement on the assumption.
For this to be correct it must be 'therefore true for n=k+1 WHEN TRUE FOR n=k'.
 

Currybear

Member
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
192
Gender
Male
HSC
2013
How does your teacher make you conclude inductions?

It needs to be pointed out that

(a) No marks are awarded for this mantra in the marking guidelines for the HSC.

Could you link a document proving this :) ?
 

SpiralFlex

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2010
Messages
6,960
Gender
Female
HSC
N/A
I remember the teacher got us to write a long paragraph spanning 8 lines.
 

ceetoo

New Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
Messages
5
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
2013
I was told the minimum statement required by markers was "Therefore the proposition is true by mathematical induction".
 

Web Addict

Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
462
Gender
Male
HSC
2013
Are you allowed to write, "Hence, true for all integers by PMI?" (By the way, PMI stands for process of mathematical induction.)
 

Drongoski

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
4,255
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
The statement is true for n=1
If the statement is true for n=k, then it is true for n=k+1
Therefore it is true for all integers n => 1 by Mathematical Induction
I think you meant to say something like: Since it is true n = k+1 if true for n = k >= 1, the statement is therefore true for all integers n >= 1 by (the principle of) mathematical induction.
 

braintic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
2,137
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
I think you meant to say something like: Since it is true n = k+1 if true for n = k >= 1, the statement is therefore true for all integers n >= 1 by (the principle of) mathematical induction.
Sy123's statement is correct. Your statement really doesn't provide an initial condition.
But its all moot - as previously stated, no conclusion is required.
 

Drongoski

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
4,255
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
Sy123's statement is correct. Your statement really doesn't provide an initial condition.
But its all moot - as previously stated, no conclusion is required.
On reflection, you and Sy123 are both correct. But I was referring to his middle line, which in conjunction with the 1st are sufficient and acceptable. I was not suggesting the initial condition was not required.
 
Last edited:

sghguos

Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2011
Messages
827
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
Nah guys ive actually talked to the head HSC director and he said that from 2011 onwards no marks will be deducted for ever not including the step 3 or the induction conclusion in any circumstances. You dont even have to write step 1, step 2 etc.. just solve n=1 and then solve it and done you WILL get the full "marks" and if I was you I would spend that extra time on the last question of the exam.
 

Combo

beast
Joined
Sep 8, 2010
Messages
61
Gender
Male
HSC
2013
Nah guys ive actually talked to the head HSC director and he said that from 2011 onwards no marks will be deducted for ever not including the step 3 or the induction conclusion in any circumstances. You dont even have to write step 1, step 2 etc.. just solve n=1 and then solve it and done you WILL get the full "marks" and if I was you I would spend that extra time on the last question of the exam.
not sure if you can trust this guy...
 

braintic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
2,137
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
Nah guys ive actually talked to the head HSC director and he said that from 2011 onwards no marks will be deducted for ever not including the step 3 or the induction conclusion in any circumstances. You dont even have to write step 1, step 2 etc.. just solve n=1 and then solve it and done you WILL get the full "marks" and if I was you I would spend that extra time on the last question of the exam.
I wasn't aware that there was a position called 'Head HSC Director'. With that over-arching title, I doubt he would know specifics about mathematics papers.
What you have described has always been the case - there is nothing special about 2011. There has never been a requirement to write step 1, etc., and I certainly hope there are no teachers who require that in induction proofs. But my recollection is that your step 3 is the most important step - the inductive step. Wasn't it (1) test n=1 (2) assume true for n=k (3) prove true for n=k+1 (4) conclusion??
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top