Abortion debate (2 Viewers)

[phunk_e]

you're assuming a bit too much i think

if i was to assume, in your other post, you said if people dont want a baby, they shouldnt be able to abort...i'm for abortions, but i dont think someone changing their mind or thinking the child wont suit their current lifestyle is a good enough reason.

In my other post i said- if people dont want a baby, they SHOULD be able to abort- i am for abortions.

 

[braad]

Dolphins and humans are the only mammals on earth that have sex for pleasure

just not together

 

[braad]

In my other post i said- if people dont want a baby, they SHOULD be able to abort- i am for abortions.

i dont think i said that :S if it seemed that way, im sorry, as i was merely pointing out that if people want an abortion because they dont feel like it, or it's not going to fit into their busy lives, that they're selfish

 

[phunk_e]

i dont think i said that :S if it seemed that way, im sorry, as i was merely pointing out that if people want an abortion because they dont feel like it, or it's not going to fit into their busy lives, that they're selfish

read your first post, i think there is a typo.
Its all good, i see where you are coming from

 

[Phanatical]

Western society has promoted for two thousand years the idea that sex before marriage is a sin. They were on the right track, because parents who Don't have the economic and social stability to provide for their children should not be having children. Marriage is the best guarantee we have towards a stable family unit with both a mother and father in attendance. Married couples usually don't get married unless they have some sort of financial security, and it's only in such an environment that children should be brought up in the world.

So yes. If that means only married people (or at least people who are seriously intending marriage) should have sex, then I support it wholeheartedly. To create life, or at least to engage in the act of creating life without the stability of marriage is irresponsible and dangerous, and can lead to terrible consequences, including the murder of an innocent human life.

If you don't have sex, you don't have babies, so you don't have anything to abort.

 

[Xayma]

Western society has promoted for two thousand years the idea that sex before marriage is a sin. They were on the right track, because parents who Don't have the economic and social stability to provide for their children should not be having children. Marriage is the best guarantee we have towards a stable family unit with both a mother and father in attendance. Married couples usually don't get married unless they have some sort of financial security, and it's only in such an environment that children should be brought up in the world.

So yes. If that means only married people (or at least people who are seriously intending marriage) should have sex, then I support it wholeheartedly. To create life, or at least to engage in the act of creating life without the stability of marriage is irresponsible and dangerous, and can lead to terrible consequences, including the murder of an innocent human life.

If you don't have sex, you don't have babies, so you don't have anything to abort.

But phanatical you must be against the pill, since that doesn't prevent an egg being fertilised!

You would be killing innocent life.

 

[Lucy257]

what exactly is "innocent life?"

why are we debating whether or not to terminate a foetus (technically only a cluster of cells) when 15000 innocent, living, and sentient animals are slaughtered inhumanely every hour in the US alone?

if someone's so pro-life, they shouldn't discriminate.



either all life is important or no life is important.

 

[gerhard]

fuck god is annoying

 

[TerrbleSpellor]

fuck god is annoying

So random.

*Signatured*

 

[braad]

what exactly is "innocent life?"

why are we debating whether or not to terminate a foetus (technically only a cluster of cells) when 15000 innocent, living, and sentient animals are slaughtered inhumanely every hour in the US alone?

if someone's so pro-life, they shouldn't discriminate.



either all life is important or no life is important.

hahaha...hey do you support PETA?

fuck god is annoying

sigable

So random.

*Signatured*

i want it

 

[spell check]

God our Father breathes life into every single human He creates, just like He did with Adam and Eve. How dare we interfere with His will, why does everybody involved, directly or indirectly, with abortions feel that they can get away with playing God. He has a will for EVERY single one of His children, and we destroy it by aborting and slaughtering them in the mother's womb whilst they flush "it" down the drain or keep it for stem cell research. How do you know that that child wasn't brought into the world to find a cure for cancer?. God is the only giver of knowledge and we really don't know what we destroy when we KILL the babies..

doesn't this mean that it would be god's plan for the foetus to be aborted?

or is it only god's plan when good things happen to people?

seems like an argument of convenience there, clearly god either has a plan for people which cannot be impeded by humans, or he has no plan for people and they dictate their lives entirely, you can't have a bit of one and a bit of the other

 

[TerrbleSpellor]

Ok so everyone agrees that every women should have the option of having an abortion, in fact it should be made easier for them to access such services.

 

[sparkl3z]

abortion.....jeez.....that's killing someone........i think people shouldnt just go around having babies....some people are spastic.....i mean it...it's really a big decision...but abortion.....it's a crime....

 

[erawamai]

If you don't have sex, you don't have babies, so you don't have anything to abort.

I just can't help but think that your strategy for preventing unwanted pregnancies is a little simplistic.

Surely you do realise that people already know that having sex can lead to an unwanted pregnancy.

How on earth does telling people what they already know help prevent unwanted pregnancies?

 

[Lucy257]

hahaha...hey do you support PETA?

ha ha ha...yeah. Go fellow tree-hugging-vegan-new-age-sensitive-animal-rightsists! lol.

 

[katie_tully]

Holy shit. Call me completely insane...and a sucker for torture. But here goes nothing.

Western society has promoted for two thousand years the idea that sex before marriage is a sin. They were on the right track, because parents who Don't have the economic and social stability to provide for their children should not be having children.

The promotion of sex before marriage as a sin had nothing to do with the Church's desire to stop people having children. It had more to do with the following;

Jesus emphasized that to entertain lustful desires toward a person of the opposite sex outside marriage means to be guilty of adultery (Matt 5:27-28).

For 2000 years the Church promoted the idea that if you have any feelings of sexual desire towards a person you aren't married to, you are committing adultery. Nooooooow, I might just ad that adultery was punishable by death. So what the Church promotes and what the Church does, or did, I don't think can be used as a suitable argument. The Church has done a lot of things over 2000 years, do you think they were all reasonable?
But wait, there is more.

represents the most intimate of all interpersonal relationships, expressing a "one-flesh" unity of total commitment. Such a unity of commitment cannot be expressed or experienced in a casual sexual union

Basically the Church believed that having sex with a person made you "one flesh", and that you were turning your back on God if you had sex with a person whom you are not married to. This is my favourite.

Shun immorality. Every other sin which a man commits is outside the body; but the immoral man sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God? You are not your own; you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body. (6:18-20)

An amazing contradiction I find with the Bible and indeed the Church is first, the condemnation of sexual relations as sinful, but then in the same book they promote heterosexual sexual relations as natural, and homosexual relations as unnatural.

Romans 1:26-27

[26] For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged the natural sexual relations for unnatural ones, [27] and likewise the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed in their passions for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Marriage is the best guarantee we have towards a stable family unit with both a mother and father in attendance. Married couples usually don't get married unless they have some sort of financial security, and it's only in such an environment that children should be brought up in the world.

Deary me. This is my favourite bit. <3 the sanctity and security of marriage. Oh dear.

In 1998, 110,600 marriages were registered in Australia.
In 1998, 51,400 divorces were granted in Australia.
Marriage data indicates that 67% of couples marrying in 1998 had cohabited prior to marriage.
Remarriages represented 33% of all marriages in 1998 compared with 31% in 1978
Over the last 10 years the number of children involved in divorce has increased. In 1988, 44,400 children aged under 18 years were involved in divorce. By 1998 this number had increased to 51,600 children. Ten years ago 97 children in 10,000 aged under 18 years were involved in divorces granted in that year. By 1998 this proportion had increased to 109 per 10,000.
In 1998 there were 14.8 million people aged 15 years and over in the population, a rise of 16% on 1988 - 4.6 million were never married (up 22% on 1988), 8.3 million were married (up 9%), 930,000 were widowed (up 13%) and around 1 million were divorced (up 58%).
http://www.abs.gov.au/

Oh you're so right Phanatical. Marriage means nothing more than financial security and happy families! Right? ... Yeah. We'll leave that one well enough alone now.

To create life, or at least to engage in the act of creating life without the stability of marriage is irresponsible and dangerous, and can lead to terrible consequences, including the murder of an innocent human life.

I'm putting this last comment down to sexual frustration. Sex IS USED FOR PLEASURE ALSO. Humans are sexual beings! We are attracted to the opposite sex for a variety of reasons. Is it beyond your comprehension to believe that sex, when used in a loving relationship (not necessarily marriage) is used to bond, to ensure trust and to bring couples closer.

On that very same note, what do you think about married couples with 3 children who get pregnant a fourth time and cannot supporth the fourth, thus have an abortion? Coz you do realise that married women with children make up the majority of abortions undertaken in Australia. Right? Oh noes.

 

[loquasagacious]

Well Katie that last section made me think of a line from Kinsey. "Everymans crime is nomans crime".

Referring of course to the allegations of divorce/sex/etc being somehow wrong.

 

[ur_inner_child]

Western society has promoted for two thousand years the idea that sex before marriage is a sin. They were on the right track, because parents who Don't have the economic and social stability to provide for their children should not be having children. Marriage is the best guarantee we have towards a stable family unit with both a mother and father in attendance. Married couples usually don't get married unless they have some sort of financial security, and it's only in such an environment that children should be brought up in the world.

So yes. If that means only married people (or at least people who are seriously intending marriage) should have sex, then I support it wholeheartedly. To create life, or at least to engage in the act of creating life without the stability of marriage is irresponsible and dangerous, and can lead to terrible consequences, including the murder of an innocent human life.

If you don't have sex, you don't have babies, so you don't have anything to abort.

MARRIAGE IS CONSTRUCTED

go do HISTORICAL AND CULTURAL STUDIES 2 @ the con

thousands of years my fucking ass

marriage in England use to be FOR and ONLY for the people who were RICH. Vast amounts of land and money and a good surname. The church would not approve anyone who was not in the upper class!

thus only rich people were able to have the ability to marry

sure its the stable way to make sure you guys wont seperate and are financially stable but it is NOT ALWAYS THE CASE

people marry when theyre young and poor
people marry when they are not in love
people DONT marry but are in love
people have had eternal-lasting relationships PLUS a family without marriage

marriage DOES NOT = certain commitment = certain finances = certain love = certain monogamy

you are too ideal. you have no perception of, as erawamai said, social dynamics

you live in a fantasy world where you think everything could work. it would be great if it did, phanatical, but it is simply not realistic.

when it comes to preventing everyone from having sex to avoid unwanted pregnancies, again, how realistic do you think this is???

or are you just mindlessly preaching, serving no purpose whatsoever. We KNOW what you're preaching, its correct that no sex=no unwanted baby but in REAL LIFE andrew, this enforcement cannot happen.

you're wasting your breath on something we all know to be unrealistic.

 

[TerrbleSpellor]

What does marriage have to do with this?

 

[ur_inner_child]

What does marriage have to do with this?

read the thread please.

phanatical was talking about only having sex after marriage to avoid having unwanted pregnacies/abortions