ALP Education Policy [regarding funding to independant and non-independant schools] (1 Viewer)

[Malevolence]

Well - YOU (ribbon) wouldn't struggle to send your kids to a private school because you are simply selfish and have your priorities wrong. A "huge house" is somewhat different to an opportunity and an education for your child. That comment just emphasises how moronic your argument is.

Oh and cherryblossom, weren't you just saying that public school kids go just as well as private school kids? erm, do i detect a HUGE CONTRADICTION???

I can't even really be bothered with "leetom"'s comment

And for the last time i'm not really speaking about my parents - not at all - they manage and still have to make sacrifices, but i never said it was dire. I'm referring to my friends' parents and thousands of other parents out there who are not weak (leetom you leave a foul taste in my mouth) nor is my 'quality of life at home' diminished. We just don't need a fleet of jaguars.

My parents by no means work themselves to the bone you fool, i never claimed they did - i'm referring to others. It was THEIR choice to send me to a private school when they could've just accepted a place at James Ruse and paid nothing, but they thought elsewhere offered more opportunities in other areas. Just so you know, i sleep soundly at night because i respect my parents and im very grateful to them for whatever sacrifices they've made - and we both think its worth it.

Finaly Someone who knows what they're talking about!!! Your all so blind!!! Why must everyone resort to generalisations and stereotypes??? Lets get this straight, all those who go to private schools are not millionare's with jag's, and all those who go to public schools live in shanty towns living off of rat meat!!! This is really shitting me!!!

 

[Ziff]

I thought the topic was:
"What do you think about the ALP taking money away from 67 of the country's richest schools, freezing the funding of another 111 and redistributing that money to government AND non-government school which are in dire need?" not "A private education is better than a public education because my parents have the money to spend on it even though they are "struggling" in some dire way like you know, my Daddy couldn't afford a Jag so he had to settle for a BMW"...

 

[paper cup]

Finaly Someone who knows what they're talking about!!! Your all so blind!!! Why must everyone resort to generalisations and stereotypes??? Lets get this straight, all those who go to private schools are not millionare's with jag's, and all those who go to public schools live in shanty towns living off of rat meat!!! This is really shitting me!!!

because you're not generalising at all are you. yes we live in shanty towns and live off rat meat don't we asq, ziff, leetom...? and p.s you can't spell.
lissa...I was saying it is possible to get a good mark going to a public school, it's not the school that determines your grades, it's how much effort you put in. I don't think public school kids are worse off than private school kids, we're just put at disadvantage because of lack of gov't funding.
heh, and you're not modest at all are you. you would have been better off at james ruse anyway.
and your private education has done nothing for your coherence I see. basically your arguments are just 'fuck you, therefore I rule'.
heh leetom > you, at least he can argue without throwing in a few dozen personal insults which is more than I can say for you.

 

[Rafy]

Well, I go to The kings School (Im on a scholarship) and i have found that most of the students there come from poorer backgrounds. There is a huge rural population in the school, and i doubt that their farmer parents are soaking in money espcially in a drought. This is the last thing they need. There are also struggling famililes that give up alot to send their students too the school....they are not rich.

I think the ALP policy is flawed. It should not be taking the robin hood approach on this issue. If they are truely commited to education, they should BE PUTTING NEW FUNDS INTO EDUCATION, NOT SIMPLY REDISTRIBUTING WHAT IS ALREADY THERE.

 

[leetom]

Well, I go to The kings School (Im on a scholarship) and i have found that most of the students there come from poorer backgrounds. There is a huge rural population in the school, and i doubt that their farmer parents are soaking in money espcially in a drought. This is the last thing they need. There are also struggling famililes that give up alot to send their students too the school....they are not rich.

I think the ALP policy is flawed. It should not be taking the robin hood approach on this issue. If they are truely commited to education, they should BE PUTTING NEW FUNDS INTO EDUCATION, NOT SIMPLY REDISTRIBUTING WHAT IS ALREADY THERE.

Well if every school was to receive equal funding without redistributing funds from the richer private schools, the government would be forced to find the money to increase the funding just about every public school by more than 200%...

 

[Rafy]

no. Both policies need some work.


But anyway, funding of government schools is primarily a STATE responsibility.
and Private school students get 30% of the funding that public school students get. ANd if they are supposedly richer, they are paying more tax, but getting a smaller share of it.

 

[omg_a]

I go to a private school (one of the ones that will be frozen) and while i am well and truly aware that not all students who go there are wealthy (im on a scholarship, and my dad's a teacher), i definitely think public schools need more funding. The trouble is that the problem of not enough money has been getting worse for years and it is now very difficult to fix it, as the entire culture of secondary education has changed dramatically. if the very wealthy private schools used their federal funding to lower their fees, i would be more supportive-but from what i have read, they dont, the fees keep going up, the money goes into facilities. and surely, schools must reach a critical point where they have facilities they need, and only need to spend on upkeep. however, i do not think latham's proposal is perfect-the whole deal with the catholic schools seems a bit buy-voteish. i think it's sad that so little emphasis is put on edu. that the funds end up being spread incredibly thinly. if we really valued edu, we would put the money into it, not judt the schools, but paying teachers salaries they deserve, valuing the role of educators. having a nice gym does not a good school make.

 

[Rafy]

That becasue there are less private schools

no thats on a PER student basis.....the number of actual schools is irrelvent in that figure.

 

[mervvyn]

Didn't funding for independent schools only start in the 1970s? Who started it, and more importantly, why? What was the educational landscape like before that?

(i know we can't go back to that, but it interests me and someone here might know)

 

[ur_inner_child]

I go to a private school (one of the ones that will be frozen) and while i am well and truly aware that not all students who go there are wealthy (im on a scholarship, and my dad's a teacher), i definitely think public schools need more funding. The trouble is that the problem of not enough money has been getting worse for years and it is now very difficult to fix it, as the entire culture of secondary education has changed dramatically. if the very wealthy private schools used their federal funding to lower their fees, i would be more supportive-but from what i have read, they dont, the fees keep going up, the money goes into facilities. and surely, schools must reach a critical point where they have facilities they need, and only need to spend on upkeep. however, i do not think latham's proposal is perfect-the whole deal with the catholic schools seems a bit buy-voteish. i think it's sad that so little emphasis is put on edu. that the funds end up being spread incredibly thinly. if we really valued edu, we would put the money into it, not judt the schools, but paying teachers salaries they deserve, valuing the role of educators. having a nice gym does not a good school make.

Agreed too. It seems to be one of the few posts here that isn't rattled with "YOU SPELT THAT WRONG" or "CUT THE CRAP" or a "what you have just said has been a total waste of pixels".

Listen.
If this is public vs private or prestigous vs unprestigous
What is the point of it?
It's true whoever said that it's really up to you if you do well or not. So your school isn't that great? Has no constant reputation? You badly want to do english extension 2 and they don't offer it? They have a system where you go to other classes at other schools, and that doesn't mean that OTHER school is better.

And I don't think anyone has said that people going to private schools are all wealthy. It IS although a stereotype that private people are wealthy, but I think we're all mature enough to see beyond that. I think defending the fact that you're NOT wealthy isn't needed because no one is going to come up and say "I'm wealthy. GO ME!"

We are completely off topic. Probably my fault from the beginning, but I blame YOU for following it on hahaha.

There are two many posts here where someone has a "waa" about being in private schooling and not being as wealthy as everyone "thinks". Can I ask you why you didn't go to a public school? Just straight out and say "Because I don't think public school has anything to offer for me" rather than beating around the bush like that.

I am utterly AMUSED with whoever said "alot is two words - a private school would have taught you that"

WHAT!?!?

1. Who cares!!! rebutt at the the freakin arguement, ever gone debating and you'll lose by a landslide!! Plus I don't think HSC markers would care either if you've used "alot" when you've hit the concept of Journeys like no other
2. PRIVATE SCHOOL!?!?! because public schools don't teach you jack do they?

And I've noticed people deleting their posts. Um... don't? Makes me look stupid when I'm attacking thin air lol.

 

[Skillo]

I go to a private school (one of the ones that will be frozen) and while i am well and truly aware that not all students who go there are wealthy (im on a scholarship, and my dad's a teacher), i definitely think public schools need more funding. The trouble is that the problem of not enough money has been getting worse for years and it is now very difficult to fix it, as the entire culture of secondary education has changed dramatically. if the very wealthy private schools used their federal funding to lower their fees, i would be more supportive-but from what i have read, they dont, the fees keep going up, the money goes into facilities. and surely, schools must reach a critical point where they have facilities they need, and only need to spend on upkeep. however, i do not think latham's proposal is perfect-the whole deal with the catholic schools seems a bit buy-voteish. i think it's sad that so little emphasis is put on edu. that the funds end up being spread incredibly thinly. if we really valued edu, we would put the money into it, not judt the schools, but paying teachers salaries they deserve, valuing the role of educators. having a nice gym does not a good school make.

So well said. To the point. And I completely agree. Rep for you.

 

[Skillo]

Well, I go to The kings School (Im on a scholarship) ...I think the ALP policy is flawed. It should not be taking the robin hood approach on this issue. If they are truely commited to education, they should BE PUTTING NEW FUNDS INTO EDUCATION, NOT SIMPLY REDISTRIBUTING WHAT IS ALREADY THERE.

What? And further increase King's funding that has been blown to a whopping 200% increase during the Howard adminstration?

Pffffffffffffffffffft

 

[Mendo]

I go to a public school in NSW. I don't go to the toilet there because it has fungus growing on the floor. I was given a series of photo copies of poems because we don't have the books required. I pay the voluntary school fees, so does everyone else in the hope that maybe next year, the maths room might get new chairs.
Independent schools where created by people with good intention (usualy Christian). However they have now turned into way for parties to earn votes from influencial people in high places. The ALP policy is a redistribution of funds. Those independent schools that require funding to keep its standards of an adequate level will keep it. Those that flourish their funding on heating for the pool, or a new indoor squash court floor polisher wont get it. For damn good reason.
This topic infuriates me when I see, first hand the inequality of schooling. The stark differences between my school and the independent school I have visited many times makes me sick. I wholeheartedly agree that those independent schools that need funding should be entitled to it, but those that don't, shouldn't be bribed with it.
If public schools were given the funding that undeserving private schools recieve, the quality of learning conditions would greatly improve, and those parents who sturggle to keep their children in places with better learning conditions might feel they could send their child to public schools. Equality is the outcome. I can't see any problems with that.

 

[ellymelly]

well is it worth it? why not just go to a public school and save a lot of hassle?
ellymelly do you live alone? I sympathise with your situation, but let me remind you that there are many worse off than you. I knew a girl who lived on a farm, she also had to live away from home to attend (public) school. We have a mortgage. Almost everyone has a mortgage. You're not alone in that regard.
lissa, at least you can afford the books. I'm not trying to be offensive. you have no right to hurl personal insults at me. thing is, if you attend private school, you are probably better off financially than your public school counterparts. The gap between private school/public school ed financially isn't all that big where we are...I think it's only 4000 a year...but in syd...
personally I think it's not the school that determines your grades but yourself. you can do well anywhere, as long as you put the effort in. what did you get in the SC as a matter of curiosity?
I'll have to agree with ziff, you liberal people just start insulting people whenever you can't think of an appropriate argument.

Most of the time I live alone. I think it was more than worth it, the extra activities and services provided have made a huge difference to my education especially in my areas of interest. I do agree with you where you say that you determine your grades, but I would never have been able to do half of what I've done without going to Abbotsleigh. If you were asking me about the SC; Band 6 for everything save maths (which i missed by 1 mark) and so scraped a band 5.

 

[iambored]

I wholeheartedly agree that those independent schools that need funding should be entitled to it, but those that don't, shouldn't be bribed with it.
If public schools were given the funding that undeserving private schools recieve, the quality of learning conditions would greatly improve, and those parents who sturggle to keep their children in places with better learning conditions might feel they could send their child to public schools. Equality is the outcome. I can't see any problems with that.

i like that quote

 

[mervvyn]

What Mendo said is fairly similar to the Labor policy - take from the wealthy private schools, give to poorer privates + catholics, and extra, new, funding for all publics. Which is nice and egalitarian but the improvements in most cases (textbooks being an obvious exception) will take time to filter through, while fee increases will probably not. So there might be a short term increased burden on the public system. There is that, and the fact that a lot more would needed to bring standards close to the point where the common perception of public schools as underresourced relative to private ones could be overcome, basically meaning public schools will need a lot more before the "aspirational value" of private schools is worn down a bit.
I'm not saying don't put the policy in, (although i disagree with taking money away from any education, perhaps a freeze would be more acceptable, or slower cuts?) considerations need to made as to the shorter term dynamics of enrolments and standards, and what funding is required to meet an acceptable standard.

 

[paper cup]

Most of the time I live alone. I think it was more than worth it, the extra activities and services provided have made a huge difference to my education especially in my areas of interest. I do agree with you where you say that you determine your grades, but I would never have been able to do half of what I've done without going to Abbotsleigh. If you were asking me about the SC; Band 6 for everything save maths (which i missed by 1 mark) and so scraped a band 5.

oh god I wish the HSC was that easy to ace.
I understand your situation and everything, but the thing is, public schools really need the funding, I'm not saying private schools don't, it's just...well, if you have a look at your school's website, it's not exactly up there with the ratty schools in outback NSW is it.

 

[ellymelly]

"I believe in governments helping people. I believe in opportunity. But I also know that the people should be enabled to help themselves - to work hard, to exercise responsibility. There is no way out of poverty and disadvantage without having a go, without effort.
I want to lead a government that will free up the Australian people to have a go, by giving them all a fair-go.
This is what I mean by the ladder of opportunity - all Australians climbing upwards. Making a better life for themselves and their families, knowing that at the same time, they are making Australia stronger and fairer."

This is the quote from the ALP's own web page marketing their "Taking pressure off families" campaign. I especially draw your eye to the underlined part of this passage and point out the blatent lie that sits there.


Can I just add that on the topic of needy public schools. Funding of Government schools under the Liberal Government has increased by 60% or 935 million dollars.(without taking money away from independent schools.)

And here's a bit of interesting information. Labor did NOT submit its policies for costing. That's the most irrisponsible thing a party can do. It shows, in black and white, that their policies can't be funded or implemented, (in other words, they are useless beyond belief) because they don't work money wise.

If you can't deliver on policies, more to the point, if you can't even submit your policies for costing before going to election then you may as well be blowing hot air about.

It shows the same picture of disorganisation and deceit as Latham's last screw up.

 

[ellymelly]

I was going to quote, but i encourage you to read it instead. If you had any doubts concerning the ability of the Liberal Government's commitement to education, health, national security, ( I was going to say the economy but I don't think we need proof of that) or otherwise, I direct you to this:


http://www.liberal.org.au/documents/Sept26_Speech_-_Coalition_Campaign_Launch_-_Brisbane.pdf

 

[jameseginton]

It is important that we remeber the contribution that private schools make to the education department. By creating the ability for those on middle incomes to send there children to private schools, it means they are paying for there childs education rather than the Government, who would spend the funds not improving facilities but trying to find new facilities. There would be no improvement in public eduction just a broadening of the amount of people in public education. To believe that problems would be solved if funding was cut, think about private schools closing for a week forcing children to attend public schools. There would not be enough places, classes would be overcrowded and the small net gain by public schools would not be able to be used to improve or even maintain these schools but would be drained to expand schools to accomodate the burden. Private schools take up the burden as they raise funds from those people sent there. By recieveng the funding from the Governement they are able to encourage more to attend private schooling.

When looking at the Labor policy it is important to note what states are excluded from the funding cuts. Queensland is one. There are numerous marginal seats in Queensland that are held by the coalition, so obviously hes not fair dinkum about this policy. Also by not submitting for costing before the election appears to reveal the uncertainty that all Labors policies will have on the economy