ALP to abolish full-fee places (3 Viewers)

[Rafy]

LABOR has promised to abolish full-fee university places for Australian students, a move that could put it in conflict with universities over funding.

In an overhaul of its higher education policy before next year's federal election, Labor for the first time has offered to compensate universities for scrapping the places, a cost estimated at up to $2 billion.

But with the number of local students willing to pay for their degrees growing rapidly, the level of compensation offered potentially places the Labor Party on a collision course with vice-chancellors.

A Labor higher education discussion paper, to be released today, argues that the fee-paying places are "fundamentally unfair" as better-off students can gain places denied to those with higher marks.

"It has the potential for higher education to become a mechanism for reproducing social stratification, in contrast to its longstanding role in Australia as a means of upward social mobility," the paper states.

Labor took the policy of dumping the local full-fee places to the 2004 election, saying it would fund the idea by increasing university funding.

The plan was widely criticised at the time by Victorian vice-chancellors, who said they would be worse off under the policy. Melbourne University predicted the policy would leave it $100 million worse off over five years.

Earlier this year, The Age reported that full-fee places for local first-year students had surged by up to 80 per cent at Victorian universities.

The Federal Government said this freed government-funded places for other students.

The decision by Labor to scrap the full-fee places, which were introduced by the Howard Government in 1996, is believed to have created tension within the party, with some arguing it will be too expensive.

Opposition education spokeswoman Jenny Macklin said universities would be compensated, and funding to universities would be increased overall.

"I don't think universities should be worse off; they've gone down this (full-fee) track because they are desperate for money," she said. "Privately, many of them would agree that they shouldn't have this mechanism, but 'if it's available I'll have the money, thanks' is their attitude."

Full-fee places, which can cost more than $100,000 for some degrees, do not take the place of HECS places. Local fee-paying students comprise about 3 per cent of domestic undergraduates.

Ms Macklin said the policy paper put forward options to lower the financial burdens on students caused by the doubling of HECS charges over the past decade.

It proposes lowering the cost of degrees in skill-shortage areas such as accounting, mathematics, engineering and agriculture by reducing the HECS charges. At current rates, these courses would generally drop in cost from $6979 to $4899 a year.

Labor is also considering paying part of or all the HECS debts of students if they work in areas of skills shortages and/or in country areas.

The so-called "HECS debt remissions" would apply to graduate nurses and doctors in rural or remote areas, high school maths and science teachers and teachers in disadvantaged schools.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/alp-to-cut-fullfee-places/2006/07/20/1153166521719.html


Labor has lost the plot.

 

[turtleface]

Yeah it sounds good but it'll probably contribute to a massive inflation, just like Whitlam's (or was it Hawke?) free uni did.

Needless to say if full fee students were gone, the uni system will collapse.

 

[velox]

At least there won't be idiots doing degrees they shouldn't be in.

 

[takehomecopy]

backward step. Local and international full fee paying is, often, the lifeblood of university funding. Especially the big universities.

 

[Mountain.Dew]

hmmmm this is pretty hard...if the universities did have adequate funding, there would be no need to have this full fee paying system.

however, i can't disagree with this statement:
"A Labor higher education discussion paper, to be released today, argues that the fee-paying places are "fundamentally unfair" as better-off students can gain places denied to those with higher marks."

if only there was a priorities system in place...then it would be more fairer...perhaps a cap on the number of full fee paying places...i dont know...

 

[absolution*]

Great idea.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

At least there won't be idiots doing degrees they shouldn't be in.

Haven't been to many universities lately huh?

On topic: Just as bad an idea as Mark Latham's anti-private-school-ness.

 

[Rafy]

I heard the point been made just then on radio that the full-fee system gives the opportunity for those who just miss out on the required UA to still get into uni. Apparently a high portion of those in DFEE places dont pay upfront, but accumulate it as debt in the FEE-HELP scheme. Basically, the argument that it simply gives the rich a free ride into uni is false. Not to mention the full-fee UAI cutoff cant fall 5 uai points below the HECS places. Students still need to roughly perform to the same academic standard.


Also, On the central question of how Labor would pay for this, Macklin dodges the question:

GILLIAN BRADFORD: How are you going to be able to afford this though? This could run back, pumping that money back in could run to billions a year.

JENNY MACKLIN: Labor knows that without funding our universities properly Australia is just going to go backwards.
From Labor's point of view, reforming our universities is central to building a strong economy. We are going to be overtaken by China and India if we don't put this extra money into our universities, if we don't have the scientists and engineers to make sure that we keep up with the rest of the world.

Shes talking about the long-term, when the money has to be found in the short term.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200607/s1692895.htm

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Meanwhile ALP or otherwise we'd just import Indian and Chinese engineers for massively cheaper prices.

There are far too many people going to university already, anyway.

 

[Wooz]

Yeah it sounds good but it'll probably contribute to a massive inflation, just like Whitlam's (or was it Hawke?) free uni did.

Needless to say if full fee students were gone, the uni system will collapse.

It happened under the Whitlam government and it blew the budget, and we all know what happened to Gough. Sakked!!!

 

[withoutaface]

Nice sig, faggot.

 

[takehomecopy]

Nice sig, faggot.

NSW Young Libs totally condem homophobia :uhhuh:

 

[Not-That-Bright]

O ya good idea. Take one of the largest sources of income for universities and get rid of it, meaning that the government either has to pull money out of its arse or just have less places at uni for everyone.

And why do this? Because it can be percieved on the surface to be unfair.

 

[blackfriday]

i dont like the idea full-fee people getting an easier ride into uni but unis would be in deep shite if they took em away. i reckon the full-fee people should be awarded a degree different to those who get in on hecs, but i know that is impractical and it will be financial suicide for unis.

 

[withoutaface]

NSW Young Libs totally condem homophobia :uhhuh:

I'm not homophobic, I have many homosexual friends, am massively in favour of gay adoption rights, keeping the age of consent in line with heterosexuals, deinstitutionalising marriage etc. I'm just not PC, and you might want to refer to the colloquial definition of the word:

1. faggot
794 up, 214 down


In these times not really used if somebody is really a homosexual mostly used insteap of calling somebody stupid or a loser.

Ralph: Chris hasn't been answering his phone.
John: Yeah, he is probably hanging out with those other kids thats why.
Ralph: He is such a faggot.
John: Yeah him and his faggot friends.

On the topic at hand, the taxpayers will get hit twice, once to make up for the profit made by fee payers and again to subsidise their degrees up to a factor of 75%.

 

[withoutaface]

i dont like the idea full-fee people getting an easier ride into uni but unis would be in deep shite if they took em away. i reckon the full-fee people should be awarded a degree different to those who get in on hecs, but i know that is impractical and it will be financial suicide for unis.

Why? So a full fee payer who managed straight HD's throughout their degree deserves a lesser degree than a HECS student who barely scraped passes?

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

well mabbe make it that they have to constantly compete for CSP places.. and u can get kicked from CSP if u dun performed

similar to the way that BPsych (Hons) are structured

its a thought

 

[Xayma]

I believe they should stay, as long as the amount able to be borrowed from the government is sufficient to complete their course in the standard time and possibly a bit more (or consideration if they change degrees or something).

Why not just give the universities the extra money (since they need to fund it somehow, reduction in tax cuts if there are surpluses might be their strategy) so that those on HECS places (and DFEE as a much lower side) actually get an improvement in their education.

 

[blackfriday]

Why? So a full fee payer who managed straight HD's throughout their degree deserves a lesser degree than a HECS student who barely scraped passes?

because they didnt deserve to get into that institution in the first place. i hate the notion that because you are richer, you can pay to get into a course that you otherwise would not have got into.

what i meant by my different degree, for example, is

as it stands, person A gets a csp place at usyd commerce and person B gets a dff place at usyd commerce

what i would like to see is that person A gets a csp place at usyd commerce whilst person B gets a dff place at the sydney school of economics and business, and that would be a subsidiary/almost private college of usyd, where the teaching would be identical, just that the degree would be awarded from a different place. the problem is that the latter degree would be stigmatised to a certain extent and no one would bother signing up for it.

 

[Anonymou5]

The thing is, I don't want the quality of my education to be jeopardised in order to get rid of full fee places. Sure, I don't think that the idea of full fee places is at all fair. However, I personally couldn't give a stuff about people who miss out on HECs places because of the full fee students. Seriously, it isn't that difficult to get a decent UAI/ENTER (I'm talking about gaining entrance to courses which have an entrance score below the low 90s). If you didn't get that kind of a score (even though you know you need it) then you're obviously either stupid, lack motivation or don't know how to prioritise so you don't deserve a HECs place anyway.

+Po1ntDeXt3r, arts students have it hard enough as it is anyway. I don't think what you said is all that nice because if that sort of thing was implemented, a lot of arts students wouldn't be able to stay in uni.