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Generator

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And they make profits in order to please the shareholders. It's quite clear that a company will do whatever it takes in order to generate a profit, be it flaunting the regulations or presenting a socially responsible operation to the consumer. They do have a responsibility to address the concerns of their other stakeholders, but companies only do so in order to improve their corporate performance and as a result please their shareholders. If they were driven by the needs of the consumer then they would be a co-op or a not-for-profit organisation rather than they typical corporate entity.

Just my however many cents on the matter.
 

LeftrightOut

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natstar said:
Yes I do marketing, and today companies who want to be profitable have to meet the needs of the consumers. It all comes down to the consumer. They introduced the healthier menu becasue reseach showed that this is what consumers now wanted. if profits were low, then its obvious that consumer wouldent have wanted it, but if they didnt research their consumer market, then they would have never discovered this healthy eating trend...so hence they looked to their consumers.
No the company has to provide perceived value to the market, whether it is actually as useful product or service or not is irrelevant. Their new menus are actually not that healthy, if you go to www.mcdonalds.com.au their own literature and numbers give away how their vege burger is actually worse nutritionally than a cheeseburger or junior burger. They have hoodwinked the customer into *believing* that the new menu is better for them, the truth is something quite different. Which again just goes to show they don't CARE for the customer, they just want to exploit them in the most efficient manner possible.

natstar said:
Maybe so, but it comes down to whether they want to be seen as ethical or not. Legal compliance doesent always mean ethical. If people are aware of this, then the company is not going to be very highly reputed.
You will learn in marketing that perception management is an art form and the reality and motivation behind it all can often be very sinister indeed. Ethical actions are often not really ethical, they just spin the story in such a way as to make it look like that. I think I have 2 years of marketing on you so trust me on that ok :D


natstar said:
I havent heard of that. But in every text book related to this sorta subject, the Body Shop has been used as an example of a business who regards social responsiblity.
Textbooks are fun, i've seen all sorts of case studies in text books that say one thing but if you look at it outside of the text the outcome was actually different. A favourite type of case study usually involves the implementation of a new distribution system in a supply chain. If you ever get one of these make sure to read up on how the company does things now since the book was published :) Of course you don't go putting these things into your essay because it would probably not answer what benefits there are in a system if it all fails.

natstar said:
I do realise this. I also realise that many companies are soley profit driven. But in th elight of the topic of this thread, In order to be reputed and successful in the eyes of consumers, companies have other responsibilities than just to return profits to their shareholders. Ive mentioned that consumers are the ones who give the business their money. If consumers see a comapny ripping them off, are they going to continue doing business with them.
Explain Telstra and microsoft then? How about mining companies that destroy the environment? What good do you think consumer choice has there if all they do is sell to other companies who do not have these moral problems who then sell to end users who think they are purchasing from an upstanding company?

natstar said:
I dont wana argue with you, this is just my opinion. As a marketing student, ive learnt that today, business have to act towards their consumers in order to make profits.
Or make the consumer feel like they have to act towards them. You will hopefully learn the more fun aspects of marketing later on in your degree. Things like supply chain management and consumer behaviour are only there for the benefit of the company implementing the strategies not for anyone else.
 

Iron

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What about the free enterprise/capitalism motivation chestnut? I could very well say that I lived to serve the shareholder (hence giving them more confidence to invest more $ etc.), but ultimatly the companies actions come down to individuals' ambitions and goals in life, be they monetary or otherwise.
 

LeftrightOut

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natstar said:
But really, i was only just replying in regards to the topic. Businesses may have a primary responsiblity to their shareholders, but personally I think they have other responsibilites to adhere too. If i ever become a manager (doubful) but anyway, id like to think that id be serving the needs of everyone that the business impacts.
As an individual manager you might act in that manner and everyone you supervise and deal with might appreciate it, but in the end you will only be a small cog in the overall machine. And a company is a machine made up of many parts and almost all of them have cogs that will do bad things to further profit given the chance. Take NAB for example, did the bank teller go an lose a lot of money on the currency market? or Barings bank, was it the CEO who made very bad investment decisions? in the end the overall company reputation will drop to the level of its most dishonest action by any one of its employees, it's the way they are structured and the way they operate. And we are talking about a compny not the individuals that are in it.

natstar said:
It may be the case that many buisnesses are being unethical when making profits, but yeah, i personaly think it comes down to the consumer in the end. Isent that what marketing is about? Reseacrhing the market, looking at how consumer behave, and producing, pricing, distributing and promoting a product/service that regards consumers wants and needs?
Not really, that's the university definition perhaps. You do not need to have regard for the consumers wants and needs to sell them something, you can quite easily manipulate the masses into a frenzy over lots of junk they didn't even think they needed 5 minutes earlier. Take Pokemon, Tamagotchi, Yu-gi-oh, Tickle me elmo, the list goes on and on. Consider the peer group leaders and influencers, why would Nike and Reebok give young popular kids free clothes and shoes to wear? Once you get into guerilla marketing you will see how bad it gets.

They do research to see what they can sell and what they could force people to buy and how to structure the message to hit a particular market. Take your classical consumer purchase decision making process, every step in there is explained so a company knows how to exploit a potential customer not so a consumer can benefit.

Also if you are interested in the seedier side of things there's a documentary call "The Corporation" that covers a lot of this from an American viewpoint.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...1/103-2478931-3357442?v=glance&s=dvd&n=507846
 

LeftrightOut

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Yes it is a rather sad state of affairs. There are groups out there that want to change the whole business environment and they are having limited success in some places, some CEOs are jumping on board too, Ray Anderson being one of the most vocal.
http://www.sdearthtimes.com/et0699/et0699s6.html
http://www.greenbizleaders.com/NewsDetail.cfm?NewsID=27360
http://www.greenbizleaders.com/

But these have limited exposure in news media as positive news stories are often left to fluffy kittens being rescued or some other dull crap.

An interesting story on how a company can force suppliers to doing stupid things is one on Wal-mart and pickles.
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html

There is also a documentary on walmart and their quesitonable practices you can watch online made by PBS
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/

But to really see the excessive nature of companies go back a few years to the dot com boom, the amount of shoddiness back then will be hard to match anytime soon.

However until more companies change I am afraid we are stuck as a society. I used to believe in showing loyalty to your employer but that has not been the case for many years. Employees should consider themselves mercenaries, you are there as a professional to do your job, once they stop paying you then you stop doing your job and move on to the next assignment. No guarantees these days you'll work for the one company until the day you retire.

Edit: Also if you are interested in more info on sweatshops used by clothing companies.
http://www.oxfam.org.au/campaigns/nike/reports/index.html
http://www.sweatshopwatch.org/swatch/campaigns/
 
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neo o

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katie_tully said:
After spending the last hour reading up on this stuff (Last time I did anything remotely like this was 9th grade Commerce)...

I live in the bush. As for consumers being looked after? Telstra and other large corporations are a great example of how the consumer is not looked after.
Of course they abide by the legalities, but at the end of the day it really is the shareholder who gets looked after.
Shareholder = money.

The whole objective is to make money, and once you've established yourself as a conglomerate like Microsoft, and you monopolise the industry, employees/consumers are runner up to shareholders.... You don't need to please your staff to make a profit.
Do you think John Smith living at Ayers Rock should receive the same service, at the same cost as John Smith living in Sydney? For some reason, people in the bush feel that Telstra owes them something, and that Telstra should operate at a loss (wires, less people etc) and deliver telecommunications services to the bush, at the same cost as in the city.

The mind boggles :p

Also natstar, I think you and leftright just had a misunderstanding. He was pointing out that while Maccas considers its customer (all businesses have to) like you said, they didn't create the healthy menu because they were concerned about the health of their customers (ethical reasons) they created it to take advantage of what customers WANT, and thus deliver increased profit to their shareholders :).
 
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paper cup

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omg, a thread actually worth replying to!
and shame I have to get off argh.
short answer, no, employees, also to society as a whole. you know I could just quote huge chunks from prelim legal.
 

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LeftrightOut said:
A company exists solely to turn a profit for shareholders. Anyone who thinks that a company is there to provide for the well being of staff or service a customers needs is naive. The bottom line is profit, if you do not aim to make the best return possible in most circumstances you would not have a job on the board very long.
very well said.

as myer, in this official training guide, states:

 

Cape

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Businesses view shareholders as a major source of income, but with the times we are living in, companies responsibilities are changing to adapt to triple bottom line accounting, it just really depends on the company. But if the company doesn't have a responsbility to many stakeholders then shareholders will not be interested in investing into the company.
 

thorrnydevil

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Oh get over it. YES, we live in a Capitalist society. YES, companies like shareholdes. YES, everyone with a different opinion to you is out to get you.
 

Xayma

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neo_o said:
Do you think John Smith living at Ayers Rock should receive the same service, at the same cost as John Smith living in Sydney? For some reason, people in the bush feel that Telstra owes them something, and that Telstra should operate at a loss (wires, less people etc) and deliver telecommunications services to the bush, at the same cost as in the city.

The mind boggles :p
Well since we don't want any companies to run at a loss we should shut down any public transport that isn't profitable without government subsidies. Because people in the country shouldn't be helping to pay for those in the city to travel to work. Alot of people in the city think that public transport should continue of a night time, even though it would be running at a loss, continue on unprofitable lines (just see the bitching of people around here about services with cityrail).

And he really doesn't recieve it at the same cost.

At ayres rock chances are he will have a sat phone. The main problem with service is the time it takes, for lines to be installed, fixed, it can take weeks for Telstra to get a line installed. And do you think that people live in the bush for fun (sometimes but not often) more then often they are there to farm/support farmers. There isn't many country places I can think of that just survive without a reason for being there.
 
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thorrnydevil

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I don't see why people in the country should pay for people in the city to use transport. In my town we don't even have a rail line. The closest is about 30 minutes away and the Carr government is looking at shuting it down.

The Labor Party is the worst thing that has ever happened to this state.
 

Xayma

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Exactly, we have a train station here, which really only survives because the Melbourne-Sydney line goes through. Wait we have some buses, where they must service so much that it is quicker and easier to ride a bicycle.

If Telstra was to have vastly different prices, either the small towns will die and cities will get larger, or the prices of farm goods will go up (given that most support the farm communities and farmers basically operate with extremly low profit) which will result in you paying for the services through the goods rather then the taxes, because chances are the middle men arent going to absorb the cost.
 

Generator

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This isn't a political comment as such, but do we really need to listen to those in the country whinge about those in the city and vice versa?
 

Xayma

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No, I would be happy to not do it, but if someone whinges about the country I will whinge about the city in return. So they know that it isn't just the country people using city money.
 

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