Debunking myths of elite learning (2 Viewers)

[clairegirl]

The Biggest inherant flaw of feminism today is that the Feminist movement seeks to punish the son for the sins of the proverbial father. It's men of generations past who benefitted from inequality in society. And young men of today are being disadvantaged because of this perceived "injustice" towards women as a solid movement.

This is why we need a masculist movement to reverse the trend and to counter the bullshit ideology of the feminist movement. Feminism = Masculism = Universal Human Rights. You deny males representation and help in society, and you completely miss the point of human rights transcending boundaries of gender or race.

You have a very bitter and mainstream view of feminism... the policies such as women quotas etc are there to help women because they're still disadvantaged/discriminated against (not sexually but percieved "not as good as the men or a big risk coz they might leave to have children etc").

At Macquarie University, there is a women's room and women's club or whatever it's called. Many ask why there is no officlal men's club ... and the answer of the student union is because no males have expressed interest in starting one up.

You seem very passionate about starting a "masculine movement" because you think males are disadvantaged in the workforce...if you think this then start one up, goto parliament and express your concern that men are disadvantaged in the office....u can tell i disagree with you ... maybe you should take up women's studies as an elective and see what its all about??? you'll see that your view on feminism is not only wrong but completely offensive

To me you sound like you've only seen the surface and refuse to see the reasons behind statistics (except that they're wrong), take up womens studies as an elective or aboriginal studies is quite relevant too (they're both pretty good!)


..... i absolutely agree with you how males need more support groups out there to deal the statistics (btw totally irrelevant to the workforce and to your argument about women quotas) that you've showed me, support groups are already starting to happen, look around you (Krause et al, 2004, Education: The psychological Context, talks about it quite a lot) support groups for single fathers (arrh i can't reference this i just saw it on A Current Affair) the television ad for those men seeking help coz they're violent (u know the one that goes, Australia Says No)

 

[Phanatical]

At Sydney University, there is a women's room and several paid women's officers. Lots have asked why there is no men's society or men's space - and the Official answer of the SRC and the Union is that men are not a disadvantaged group in society, and there is no justification for the expense. Believe me, groups lead by people such as myself have tried unsuccessfully to introduce the same resources to USYD as the women have, but they keep getting shot down by our feminist SRC and Union.

Quotas for women don't help all women. They help white women. Hence, "Stupid White Men" - because they don't give a shit about non-white women, or non-white men for that matter. This is despite the fact that the glass ceiling for asian men is lower than that for white women in this society. It hardly seems fair to me.

Young males ARE being disadvantaged in the workforce, especially in certain (higher-paying, higher-powered) industries. Disadvantaged more than women, perhaps, perhaps not, but they face disadvantages all the same. Both men and women can face disadvantages, because the workforce is not just one industry, but many industries, which many in society perceive some to be more female-friendly, some more male-friendly. We cannot just group men and women by gender.

This is why I haven't asked for a separate Men's officer, but I've asked for the women's officer to be replaced by a Gender Issues Officer.

 

[Phanatical]

As for your suggestion that I take up women's studies as an elective? Maybe if the sources weren't all one-sided glorification of feminist propaganda. Maybe if they actually took into account the male side of the argument. There's a reason why it's called women's studies, and it has less to do with the content than the fact that males should avoid those subjects like the plague.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Phanatical... ur a really smart bloke and ur definately onto something here...

Males ARE disadvantaged, it doesn't make sense... A girl kills her husband society asks 'what did he do to her', a guy beats his wife and no one even asks why, it's just cuz guys are assholes.

Aboriginals recieve lower test scores than white australians... the system must be against them, we should help them out. Guys recieve lower test scores than females... they're just naturally dumber (even tho alot of tests say otherwise).

 

[Lexicographer]

NTB I personally think that Phanatical raises some valid points (definitely visible at the major universities - UTS has the same issues) but you're not really helping his argument here.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

explain where my point is flawed and i'll elaborate on it for you.

 

[clairegirl]

As for your suggestion that I take up women's studies as an elective? Maybe if the sources weren't all one-sided glorification of feminist propaganda. Maybe if they actually took into account the male side of the argument. There's a reason why it's called women's studies, and it has less to do with the content than the fact that males should avoid those subjects like the plague.

and you know this because you've studied the content??

 

[Lexicographer]

Not your point, but your delivery. While Phanatical is providing highly researched statements and sources (generating more valid discussion) your comments like "women are more subversive" just fuel the "he hates women rar!" flames.

 

[Lexicographer]

and you know this because you've studied the content??

I'm not taking a side on this point, but I must say that from speaking to students who have taken the subject (its UTS equivalent) he's spot on with that evaluation.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Why is it you feel someone needs to study the entire course to make an informed opinion?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Not your point, but your delivery. While Phanatical is providing highly researched statements and sources (generating more valid discussion) your comments like "women are more subversive" just fuel the "he hates women rar!" flames.

lol sorry that comment was a bit rude.... my other ones were fairly valid tho i think, i forgot that i actually wrote that in this thread... i kinda go from joking to being serious.

 

[Phanatical]

I think Not-That-Bright raises some good points. I'm not as studied up on the racial issues (though being of Chinese heritage, it's of interest to me), but I'll try and address what I think might be intended as criticisms.

At my university, there's an Indigenous Officer (who is usually always white) whose job is to increase awareness of aborigine disadvantage in society, because they make up a disproportionate percentage of the prison population, and there are hardly any aborigines at the University. To an extent, I support this work, however I believe that there are other avenues available to disadvantaged aborigines, in that there are also disadvantaged non-aborigines who are in exactly the same situation - and the resources dedicated to helping just the aborigines should be offered to the non-aborigines who find themselves in the same position. I also think it's rather stupid of the Indigenous Officer, and the SRC and Union who support this officer, to go out and stage a protest against police brutality at the FUNERAL of TJ hickey. Protests and Funerals don't go together. Of course, these are the same ones who, after causing trouble at our own university, went across the road to UTS, started blocking off the main entrance, damaging UTS property, abused police officers, got peppersprayed, and are now claiming Police Brutality.

Likewise, male students get lower test scores than female students. This is not because male students are dumber (though I'm not taking anything away from female students, some of whom truly Are brilliant) - but it is in a very large part the result of 13 years of female-friendly learning which doesn't take into account the different physical and psychological differences of a boy and a girl going through childhood. It's also in part an expectation of society for boys to enter the trades, and especially in the last 10 years, a push for girls to complete tertiary studies.

 

[Lexicographer]

I don't think there's anything wrong with encouraging females to proceed to tertiary study, nor do I really see any expectation of males to enter the trades. However, I admit that coming from an elite school my experience is in no way equivalent to that seen by your Average [Joe/Julie].

Incidentally, I am of the mind that too much emphasis is placed on tertiary (university) study when this is clearly not appropriate for a significant number of people. Students of any condition or background should be encouraged to consider which path is most suitable for their needs and (realistic) aspirations - be it vocational education (TAFE), academic advancement (university) or trade apprenticeship. Too many men are convinced they must go to university because it's expected of them, too many women put off their family lives because they are told that a family will ruin their chances of success*.

*I'm in no way saying the function of woman is to be a mother before all else, I am using the example of chronically depressed power-women to illustrate the negative influences of society on a person's choices.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

lol if your 'diversity' party has the same type of views as you i'd be willing to donate, throw my support behind that..

 

[Phanatical]

I completely agree. But the emphasis on encouraging people to enter trades (and leave school in year 9, year 10, year 12) is pretty much completely on male students. I don't see too much emphasis on encouraging a female to become a brickie, or a car mechanic, or a plumber or whatever. All I see is society encouraging men to go into lower-paid industries, and the feminist "womyn" movement encouraging their "sisters" to become our bosses.

 

[Phanatical]

Diversity's goals aren't as clearly defined as my own. As a party, it stands for abolishing the Women's Officer (and replacing her with a Gender Issues Officer), and increasing support at affiliated campuses. Hopefully over the next year our policies will become more clearly defined, and we can bring aboard people who are willing to stand for the ideals of representation for all.

 

[Mambomeg]

But males are increasingly facing disadvantage in society as well, Especially males of non-white backgrounds. In schools, we don't do as well (not because we're dumber, but because school systems are designed for females),

How can u say that when the majority of students at selective schools etc come from "non-white beckgrounds". stop your bitching about being discriminated against. You are in your course at uni arent u? u are doing what u want, at one of the best uni's in Australia, one of the best countries in the world, and all u want to do is bitch about how unfair everything is? Well, heres the thing: Life is unfair! deal with it and think about how lucky you actually are!

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Mambomeg... if everyone was like you life would be ALOT more unfair.

 

[Assasinator_2]

All I see is society encouraging men to go into lower-paid industries, and the feminist "womyn" movement encouraging their "sisters" to become our bosses.

Let them. I enjoy continuously beating them at the thing they strive so hard to achieve in.

 

[Mambomeg]

i dont see which side u are on, you seem to keep switching.....
If everyone was like me everyone would work hard to achieve what they do. There wouldnt be the unfairness of fee paying students etc. Life is unfair, there are some things u cant change, for example, i cant change the fact that many people would would do brilliantly in my course dont get thr opportunity to do so because people who are less derserving on the place got the place.

Phanatical just shits me because he is so bitter about not getting elected. Sure hes entilteld to be bitter, i was bitter when i didnt get into the course i wanted, and eventually he will get over it. Meanwhile he doesnt havent to vent his anger on the female half of the world. Women get advantages for some things, men get advantages for others, thats the way it goes.

Phanatical if you are so desparate to have a mens room or genders officer or whatever, start a club next year, the union funds that, and it would be legit. If there was enough interest, maybe the union would pay attention. stop whinging about not getting in and turn your attention to other ways to change the so called "injustices" as you see them.