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Do you support Rudd's Pacific Solution Mark 2? (1 Viewer)

Do you support Rudd's Pacific Solution Mark 2?

  • Yes

    Votes: 11 52.4%
  • No

    Votes: 10 47.6%

  • Total voters
    21

Sathius005

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Detention facilities in Papua New Guinea will be swamped within days if the Rudd government's hardline new asylum seeker policy fails to quickly stem the arrival of 3000 people to Australia by boat each month.
The arrival of 837 asylum seekers in the past week alone - bringing the total this year to more than 15,000 - is set against a capacity for only 300 on Manus Island.
The government has admitted asylum seekers will be held in Australia for the time being as it races to expand PNG facilities and bring them up to United Nations-mandated standards for health and education provision.
But on Sunday it refused to say how much the policy of transferring all boat arrivals to PNG would cost or how soon the upgraded, expanded facilities on Manus Island would be ready.
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If it fails to provide suitable conditions in the impoverished nation, the Coalition and legal experts have warned of court challenges in both countries.
Some Afghan Hazaras waiting in Indonesia's Puncak area told the ABC they had abandoned plans to make the boat journey to Australia because of the new policy, announced on Friday. But they urged the government to improve the speed of official UN asylum application processing in Jakarta. About 10,000 refugees are estimated to be waiting in Indonesia to be resettled.
Immigration Minister Tony Burke said facilities on Manus Island were not at the standard they needed to be, especially for children, and he had to ensure they complied with the UN refugee convention and the High Court ruling that struck down the Malaysia people-swap deal.
This included providing appropriate accommodation, services and schooling. Mr Burke declined to say how long the work would take but insisted it would not be long.
He said the deal to transfer people was unlimited, despite PNG saying it would be constrained by its capacity to accommodate people. ''If we end up with a large number of people coming, then a large capacity will be put in Papua New Guinea,'' he told ABC TV.
''There is a limit to how many you would be able to put on Manus Island but the agreement is not limited to Manus Island.''
Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus said the plan complied with Australian and international law but legal experts cast doubt on assurances that asylum seekers would be protected, given that PNG had such widespread problems looking after its own people.
But an international expert on refugee law at the University of Melbourne, James Hathaway, said on Monday that the ''Australian Attorney-General is wrong''.
''The [refugee] convention itself says that you cannot penalise refugees for arriving without authorisation,'' Professor Hathaway said.
Mr Rudd's plan was doing exactly that, he argued, because it was taking people seeking asylum and ''dumping them into the hellhole of PNG''.
''[It is] in my view both an illegal penalty and a discriminatory penalty which puts Australia in breach of the convention.''
And children's rights organisation Plan International warned of ''great division'' if resettled refugees' conditions were markedly better than those of PNG people.
Australia's travel advisory warns of poor health facilities, cholera, malaria, high HIV/AIDS infection rates, high levels of serious crime including rape, and laws against adultery and homosexuality.
The deal between Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and his PNG counterpart Peter O'Neill says both countries ''take seriously their obligations for the welfare and safety'' of people transferred.
Ben Saul, a professor of international law at the University of Sydney, said it was hard to see how PNG would give refugees decent housing, education, healthcare and employment given the difficulties its people had securing such rights.
''PNG's one of the poorest countries in the world. It can't provide basic rights for its own people so do we really think PNG is going to prioritise making these rights for refugees over their own citizens?''
Professor Saul said the cost of the plan would be ''astronomical'' and the logistics difficult.
Opposition immigration spokesman Scott Morrison said those to be transferred to PNG would initially face health and security checks in Australia, allowing lawyers to stifle the process through court challenges.
Opposition Leader Tony Abbott said the agreement did not ensure every person who came to Australia by boat would be transferred to PNG. ''This is simply something that is held together by Blu-Tack and sticky tape to last through to the election if possible,'' he said.
Climate Change Minister Mark Butler, from the Left faction, admitted some discomfort within Labor ranks about aspects of the policy but said something needed to be done.
Asylum seekers advertisements exempt from scrutiny
Ads promoting Kevin Rudd's asylum seeker policy were not scrutinised by an independent committee that usually approves government advertising because they were considered too urgent.
Under a process introduced by Labor in March 2010, the independent communications committee, of three former public servants, is supposed to review all proposed government advertising campaigns worth more than $250,000 to see if they comply with guidelines.
Advertising campaigns must be objective and not directed at promoting party political interests, be justified and cost-effective.
A spokeswoman for Special Minister of State Mark Dreyfus confirmed he had agreed to exempt the campaign from the guidelines ''on the basis of extreme urgency''. ''The changes to … policy must be immediately communicated to our communities so asylum seekers considering coming to Australia are made aware of the changes,'' she said.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...me-for-rudd-20130721-2qcqo.html#ixzz2ZipMprFs
 

spatula232

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In class we did Social Justice and one of the main area of focus was asylum seekers. The teacher showed us this 60 minutes video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAXANHHY-cU which she tried to prove her point with. Yet in the video, they had an interview with a worker at Christmas Island who said that a lot of the Afghani "refugees" coming across actually are the rich that can afford to be smuggled over the border. The reason the processing takes so long is because of this. so many people that aren't actually refugees. How do we know who we are letting into our country?

Also riots in Manus Island (i think) was expected to have caused $60 million damage. That is of YOUR money. Therefore we will get taxed more.....

Although this is just one POV. Some of these people that are trying to get into the country are genuine refugees escaping oppression, esp. by the Taliban.

Sorry, I just needed to have a rant.
 

townie

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spatula232 said:
Also riots in Manus Island (i think) was expected to have caused $60 million damage. That is of YOUR money. Therefore we will get taxed more.....
If there wasn't so much paranoia about asylum seekers we wouldn't have needed to have spent the $60m (and hundreds of millions more) in the first place.
 

spatula232

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If there wasn't so much paranoia about asylum seekers we wouldn't have needed to have spent the $60m (and hundreds of millions more) in the first place.
True. And half the time they are innocent refugees. But is the problem us? Or them?
 

isildurrrr1

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True. And half the time they are innocent refugees. But is the problem us? Or them?
we need to deal with the situation a lot better. gov numbers show 90% are legitimate refugees. But saying they won't be resettled in australia won't really deter people from coming over anyway. You know why they're called people smugglers? because they smuggle goods, of course they won't give a shit about the law. same as how drugs are illegal in this country and people still manage to smuggle them in.
 

Frostbitten

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we need to deal with the situation a lot better. gov numbers show 90% are legitimate refugees. But saying they won't be resettled in australia won't really deter people from coming over anyway. You know why they're called people smugglers? because they smuggle goods, of course they won't give a shit about the law. same as how drugs are illegal in this country and people still manage to smuggle them in.
+1 Mr isildurrrr
 

JT145

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If there wasn't so much paranoia about asylum seekers we wouldn't have needed to have spent the $60m (and hundreds of millions more) in the first place.
Paranoia (mostly unprovoked), stirred up by media and the politiciation of the issue by the Liberals.

idk how the Libs will stop the boats. People smugglers may have a tactic to swamp Australia's shores with asylum seekers so we have to abandon PNG as we can't build infrastructure fast enough.
 

isildurrrr1

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Paranoia (mostly unprovoked), stirred up by media and the politiciation of the issue by the Liberals.

idk how the Libs will stop the boats. People smugglers may have a tactic to swamp Australia's shores with asylum seekers so we have to abandon PNG as we can't build infrastructure fast enough.
its easy to stop the boats, that's what 50mm canons on frigates are for. put one through and boats will stop. but then again its not very nice to do so.
 

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This is working well

 

bhsrepresent

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its easy to stop the boats, that's what 50mm canons on frigates are for. put one through and boats will stop. but then again its not very nice to do so.
The 'nice thing to do' is the thing that will save lives. IMO its fundamentally immoral to have an open approach: This will only encourage more people to take the risk that in the past 7 years has led 50,000+ people to drown. Leftist 'compassion' is pretty much the opposite of compassion; sure, the left has a noble cause, but if people take the risk that they've incentivised and they die, are they not responsible for these deaths?
 
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Chocco starfish

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Why the fuck can't the Australian people accept that some people are less fortunate, and only have one real option. Seriously, these people are basically saying "I want to be in Australia" and we feel it necessary to deny them the basic human right of accomodation. I genuinely feel disgusted to be an Australian due to this insane policy.
Don't stop the boats, fuck kevin rudd
 

nerdasdasd

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Why the fuck should Australians pay the bill in order to manage these people? Australia isn't a charity or community hall.....

Also more lives will be saved as they will be deterred and less boats may (or will) be headed off to Australia.
 

Riproot

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The 'nice thing to do' is the thing that will save lives. IMO its fundamentally immoral to have an open approach: This will only encourage more people to take the risk that in the past 7 years has led 50,000+ people to drown. Leftist 'compassion' is pretty much the opposite of compassion; sure, the left has a noble cause, but if people take the risk that they've incentivised and they die, are they not responsible for these deaths?
leftist humanitarians are pretty much saying don't turn back boats when they get here and pay to fly legit refugees over
Compassion.
 

Zao Medong

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The 'nice thing to do' is the thing that will save lives. IMO its fundamentally immoral to have an open approach: This will only encourage more people to take the risk that in the past 7 years has led 50,000+ people to drown. Leftist 'compassion' is pretty much the opposite of compassion; sure, the left has a noble cause, but if people take the risk that they've incentivised and they die, are they not responsible for these deaths?
YOu are an idiot. Only one thousand asylum seekers have died trying to get to Australiia. You present inaccurate figures to aid your hollow fear campaign against asylum seekers. Under international law it is not illegal to seek asylum in a country. You are a joke. Being resettled in Papua New Guinea is a crappy solution becuase it is an absolute hell hole and is a contravention of humanitarian law. This Pacific Solution Mark 2 is our day of shame. Papua New Guinea can't even run their own country how can they care for refugees. PNG has a history of human rights violations. Do you honestly believe that we can send genuine refugees to a hell hole.

It is the Liberal Party who are not compassionate. Afterall they are turning boats around. The boats are unseaworthy by the time they leave Indonesia. So what is with the waste of money on turning boats around. More people will die from Tony Abbott's failed solution of turning boats around.
 
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spatula232

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YOu are an idiot. Only one thousand asylum seekers have died trying to get to Australiia. You present inaccurate figures to aid your hollow fear campaign against asylum seekers. Under international law it is not illegal to seek asylum in a country. You are a joke. Being resettled in Papua New Guinea is a crappy solution becuase it is an absolute hell hole and is a contravention of humanitarian law. This Pacific Solution Mark 2 is our day of shame. Papua New Guinea can't even run their own country how can they care for refugees. PNG has a history of human rights violations. Do you honestly believe that we can send genuine refugees to a hell hole.

It is the Liberal Party who are not compassionate. Afterall they are turning boats around. The boats are unseaworthy by the time they leave Indonesia. So what is with the waste of money on turning boats around. More people will die from Tony Abbott's failed solution of turning boats around.
Okay. What's your solution then? If anyone has any viable ideas, I'd like to hear about them.
 

isildurrrr1

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If there wasn't so much paranoia about asylum seekers we wouldn't have needed to have spent the $60m (and hundreds of millions more) in the first place.
spending hundreds of millions to make sure 1000 people aren't here illegally.

GG government.
 

isildurrrr1

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Why the fuck should Australians pay the bill in order to manage these people? Australia isn't a charity or community hall.....
Because we signed an UN convention saying we will be committed to our intake of refugees? Australia is pretty much built on refugees, all the greeks, italians, Vietnamese, lebanese etc...
 

spatula232

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Because we signed an UN convention saying we will be committed to our intake of refugees? Australia is pretty much built on refugees, all the greeks, italians, Vietnamese, lebanese etc...
And we wouldn't cope without them?
 

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