Does God exist? (4 Viewers)

[gods-lil-rocker]

Then shouldn't the choice to enter heaven or hell be up to us as well then? Since if we chose to make our own choices and accept the responsibilities in doing so, why should we be 'punished' because 'by chance' we decided to chose a differing path since God gave us the freedom to?

The choice is upto us... but it isnt a direct... "ohhh, I want to go to heaven"...

you can't say 'oh... I want to go to the shops' and you are automatically there... you have to make other choices ie. leave your house... hop into your car... drive.... to get there...

its like heaven.... to reach a destination takes more then one choice... deciding you want to go somewhere is just the initial choice.... you still have to make more to get to that place.

 

[gods-lil-rocker]

I'm atheist.
But one of my friends is a major Hillsonger, and when asked what god sounds like she says he sounds like her.

Could it be that god is just one's conscience?

Plus, all the stuff about creation is scientifically incorrect.

If you ask a christian/catholic/whatever how creation works, they just say something about God creating the earth in 7 days. It has no real scientific explanation at all, whereas evolution makes much more sense.




A person of Christian belief, prove me wrong please.
I'm interested in how it all works.

Why does the earth being created in 7 days seem so unrealistic? Probably because one doesn't understand and can't comprehend the power and awesomeness of God.... If God wanted to create the earth in 7 days, he could of... if he wanted to create it in one day.. he could've... if he wanted to do it through evolution, he could of..... but the fact is... Humans have been created special and with a purpose, which is why I chose to believe God breathed life into us on the 6th Day....

But really, God made everything in the early old... Adam and Eve weren't children, because if they had have been they would not have lived long as there was no one older to look after the physical needs a child has. In the same way, animals would have been made ages and probably the trees... the garden of eden was prosperous and bore fruit... therefore everything living on the earth would have been 'old' or 'aged'...

So who can say that he did not also create the earth aged?

I find evolution hard to understand... Sure I understand natural selection and species developing, but I don't see how that created a whole new species.... or how we have feelings/emotions/spirituality........ if we didnt have a higher being.

 

[KFunk]

God knows the decisions you will make, but he allows us to actually make those decisions and live through the consequences - whether good or bad.

God, even though he knows the choices we will make does not mean that he will force us to go either way.

But if our will truly free then, by nature, doesn't that mean that our future actions are unknowable? If our actions are predictable, e.g. if they are based on our genetic make up, values and beliefs, then couldn't god be held responsible for our actions? Think of it this way - either we have determinism or indeterminism (regarding our actions/will):

(1) In the case of determinism, our actions are predetermined by physical laws (or similar)... leaving god at fault for our actions.

(2) Indeterminism: our actions are essentially free and random. However, god chose to imbue us with this randomness --> so god is playing dice, where it is known that negative results may arise.

Both situations seem to implicate god in the negative consequences of our actions.

 

[KFunk]

I find evolution hard to understand... Sure I understand natural selection and species developing, but I don't see how that created a whole new species.... or how we have feelings/emotions/spirituality........ if we didnt have a higher being.

For the evolution of things like emotions/morality check out books like this. As far as I can tell it seems possible to explain such phenomena in evolutionary terms. The other thing worth keeping in mind is that not everything that evolves has to have an evolutionary purpose... the analogy which is now widely used is that of spandrels (the features above an archway), which are merely an incidental of arch building:

http://www.victorianweb.org/art/architecture/nash/1e.jpg

 

[davidw89]

Wow what a controversial thread, seems more flammable than the Israel vs Palestinian one.

What do you describe one person who is undecided on this issue? i.e. they are unsure whther god exist.

Also is there beyond proof that God doesnt exist?

 

[KFunk]

What do you describe one person who is undecided on this issue? i.e. they are unsure whther god exist.

Also is there beyond proof that God doesnt exist?

Agnostic (one version): "Someone who claims that they do not know or are unable to know whether God exists."

If by your question you mean 'Is god's existence beyond (dis)proof?' then yes, this might be the case. For example, you could try to argue for the following propositions:

a) God's existence cannot be (dis)proved by purely empirical means
b) The only form of evidence we have at our disposal is empirical evidence

 

[Geezer28]

I have a friend who's a smoker, and he spoke quite profoundly one day to me. He said, "You're a Christian, I'm a smoker. We both use our affiliation as a comforter, to help us solve our problems or make us feel better when we're down. We both achieve the same ends, just I'm doing it by paying 25c a pop and getting cancer".

 

[lengy]

hey guys, this is most distressing to me because Chadd is such an advocate for all that is logical and rational on this forum, but he said that he's left BOS cause a close friend of his died recently and turned to God. i'm so upset for him and angry at him at the same time. i hope he gets through this.

 

[KFunk]

Hmm, that's sad to hear. I guess if religion ever has a place it's as an emotional support during difficult periods of one's life.

 

[gods-lil-rocker]

Not really...
We make the decision...
God allows us to make those decisions...

Just because he knows the decision we will make, doesn't mean we are under his control.

 

[KFunk]

Not really...
We make the decision...
God allows us to make those decisions...

Just because he knows the decision we will make, doesn't mean we are under his control.

Consider two different cases:

(1) Our actions are determined (by laws put in place by god): in this case we are quite clearly under god's control

(2) Our actions aren't determined by laws (being random): in this case god, in making us random, must set the limits of randomness (e.g. allowing us to perform any random action within close range of our desires, values, etc...)

Considering the latter case: Insofar as we are free we are neither under the control of ourselves nor god. Insofar as our freedom is limited (i.e. to randomly select from a confined set of options) we are controlled by god.

 

[fernando]

I guess if religion ever has a place it's as an emotional support during difficult periods of one's life.

I totally agree.



But if religion helps a person get through a rough patch in their life then that's good for them. It's just a little unfortunate to see SOME people blaming their religion on situations that may arise and negatively impact them. hmm

 

[ur_inner_child]

Not really...
We make the decision...
God allows us to make those decisions...

Just because he knows the decision we will make, doesn't mean we are under his control.

If God knew I was going to be an atheist from the start, and was therefore doomed from the very beginning, why am I responsible for not believing in him and being punished for it? Why did he let me exist in the first place? I have a doomed fate, what is therefore my purpose? To keep believers company?

 

[hiphophooray123]

Aren't debates supposed to have an ending at some point?

 

[Tulipa]

Aren't debates supposed to have an ending at some point?

Not this one.

There needs to be irrefutable proof of either/or for a conclusion.

 

[AAO89]

Aren't debates supposed to have an ending at some point?

Nothing in life will ever be completely resolved but the end isn't what's always of greatest importance, sometimes it's the road that you're travelling on to try to get there.

 

[_dhj_]

Nothing in life will ever be completely resolved but the end isn't what's always of greatest importance, sometimes it's the road that you're travelling on to try to get there.

hahahaa...

 

[iamsickofyear12]

Not this one.

There needs to be irrefutable proof of either/or for a conclusion.

No there doesn't. It's impossible to prove something does not exist. The burden of proof is on the people who believe in god... they have provided no irrefutable proof so the discussion is over.

 

[KFunk]

It's impossible to prove something does not exist.

What about cases of logical impossibility, e.g. a cyclops which has only one leg and which has only two legs. I reckon any conception of god which requires god to be both 'X' and 'not-X' (where X is some precise description) can be logically excluded without much trouble. I do, however, agree that the burden of proof lies with those who wish to argue that god exists (I have explained before that this needs to be the case, otherwise we are lead to accepting the existence of all beings whose existence cannot be disproved).

 

[m.incognito]

how the hell does someone shape the world with their fingers?

i find it hard to believe theres a huge man in the sky

WHO KNOWS EVERYTHING.

honestly, and all this sinning stuff... and fags go to hell.





christianity is okay when practiced right.
most of the time it isnt.

people just SAY theyre christian. chances are they swear, they sin, they have sex before marriage.

it's too fictional to believe.

science + evolution can prove there is no such thing as creation.
well not necessarily prove.

but it makes much more sense than a huge man in the sky shaping the earth.




if he really could control what happens...
why didnt he unfuck the world a long time ago?