Does God exist? (2 Viewers)

[Jess007]

if god made the world hed want to take the credit for it not someone else
hes suposed to be like 'man'

which one of us dont like getting teh credit when weve done something brilliantly....

i think making the world has entitlements to some credit...

so he should be here to get the credit...if hes real

 

[speedydevviie]

The same old reply ("roar", by the way):

Suppose I said to you "give cupid a chance... I know he just seems like some silly old mythological construct, and I know that loving relationships regularly errupt in hostility, but just give him a chance and I'm sure that you will come to believe". You might then say "That's all well and good, but do you have reasons which would support rational belief in cupid?"

This is all I/we ask of you. Provide a statement to the tune of 'evidence X supports the existence of god and this is why I am a theist'. Intuitions are all well and good but they have this bad habit of being wrong (proportionally, versus evidenced claims). Will you get mauled by the merciless pack that haunts this thread? Most probably. Only the brave survive (observe Bradcube).

yeh i got nothin haha

 

[turmionkat]

I used to be so against the idea of god existing. But at the end of the day, it somehow comforted me in believing in god.
I dont believe in any religion, and I do biology, chemistry and physics so I still do follow scientific teachings. But i do believe that there is a hgher, more supreme power "god" that is just there.

 

[xclusv-aj]

I used to be so against the idea of god existing. But at the end of the day, it somehow comforted me in believing in god.
I dont believe in any religion, and I do biology, chemistry and physics so I still do follow scientific teachings. But i do believe that there is a hgher, more supreme power "god" that is just there.

I sort of agree with you, i do not 100% believe in 'God' although i do believe that there is some sort of higher power and it does help to believe that sometimes

 

[squeenie]

While I have some belief in a higher power, I can't say I completely believe in God either.

I'm aiming for a Bachelor of Science course, but it seems that my school is trying to lead me to believe that if I want to study science, I have to become an atheist...

As for taking the Bible literally, the Bible is a text that has been written over the course of a few hundred years as an attempt to explain the world. Different sections were written for different purposes (for example, each of the four gospels were written for a different group of people, the first 24 books of the Old Testament are part of the Jewish Scriptures, etc) It was probably intended to be used as a guide, not to be taken word for word. Whether or not it is a useful guide should be up to the reader to decide.

 

[surjulz]

Considering this thread in its form, it's obvious that some people find the idea of God offensive. actually judging from the length and effort people put into their responses there is a lot of interest in the existence of God, probably because of the implications this could have on life and purpose.

...but I think that believing in God is not a crazy thing to do at all.
and from my own life there was one point where I did decide to follow Christ and the whole church thing, but I've seen enough circumstancial evidence in my own life to believe in Jesus.

 

[Omium]

A car runs on petrol

 

[01]

God does exist, thats the end of the story for me.

 

[Trampoline Man]

I was wondering, how many people actually believe in a god of miraces, and how many believe that while God exists, he/she/it doesn't concern itself with human affairs and did little more than light the spark for the creation of the universe?

I sort of agree with you, i do not 100% believe in 'God' although i do believe that there is some sort of higher power and it does help to believe that sometimes

Paraphrasing Richard Dawkins:

Just because something makes you comfortable doesn't make it true. A doctor could tell you you're perfectly healthy when you've got terminal cancer, and that would make you feel comfortable, but I'm sure you'd rather know the truth.

 

[HalcyonSky]

God does exist, thats the end of the story for me.

you're going to fail your hsc

 

[KFunk]

I was wondering, how many people actually believe in a god of miraces, and how many believe that while God exists, he/she/it doesn't concern itself with human affairs and did little more than light the spark for the creation of the universe?

A couple of issues for the god that interacts:
- Violation of conservation of energy
- Beyond being 'mysterious' how can people name god as being a causal force in all the good parts of their life while people live in abject conditions all over the world? I don't want a part in a god who will help a wealthy family buy a new McMansion but who want give all children clean drinking water. Omnipotence isn't that limited (and, as best as I can tell, neither is supreme benevolence ----> enter "god is mysterious" explanation).

 

[surjulz]

I believe by and large that the "forces of nature" do govern our universe, but if you mean by miracles does God intervene in our world (ie does he answer prayer etc) then I do believe that. If you mean by miracles something along the lines "Did Jesus really heal the sick, be raised from the dead?" I do. And if you mean "Can miracles happen today?" then I also do in some cases.

I don't think the Dawkins argument about "Religion was invented to meet some human need" is nescarily convincing, because the same could be said of atheism, that people who decide they are athiests could do so simply to justify hedonistic behaviour on their part.

KFunk I study Economics and Education , not physics, but I think the point of miracles is that they can violate the natural laws of physics.

Your point about the McMansions thing is interesting, but it is globalisation that has created unequal distribution, not God. The bible does say that humans are responsible for how this planet is run. And God has already shown poor people (well everyone) he loves them by at the very least giving them his son to die in our place.

 

[boris]

Name some specific examples of miracles.

And God has already shown poor people (well everyone) he loves them by at the very least giving them his son to die in our place.

Out of all the crazy things you guys believe, this is the one thing I just do not fathom. How is scarificing his son showing us he loves us? It just flat out does not make sense.

 

[surjulz]

I don't base my faith on miracles, but there are plenty of examples out there it you search for them online.

For example Bono (the U2 guy) grew up in Ireland in the late 70s, in a time when heroin was taking hold of youth culture in Dublin. Bono along with Edge and Larry, were part of the shalom house church movement. They would pray for people to break off their addiction to heroin, and people would be freed from heroin addiction instantly, which if you know about heroin addiction is a powerful thing. The band left this movement in the early 80s, but they still have their faith (recorded in the books U2 by U2 and the steve stockman book).

The whole thing with sacrificing his son makes sense when we consider the human condition as the bible describes it, that

1) humans were created to be in a relationship with God.
2) however since Adam blotted his copybook, the problem of "sin" occured, and human beings have a problem with sin, that is we basically choose to go our own way rather than go God's way
3) Because of the nature of God who is holy (that is perfect), we are condemed to die. In order to relate to God somebody needed to pay the price for our sin, so that's where Jesus dying on the cross for us comes in.
4) We can be forgiven by asking God to forgive us via what Jesus did. Therefore now we can stand before God forgiven if we do this

 

[youBROKEmyLIFE]

Bono along with Edge and Larry, were part of the shalom house church movement. They would pray for people to break off their addiction to heroin, and people would be freed from heroin addiction instantly, which if you know about heroin addiction is a powerful thing. The band left this movement in the early 80s, but they still have their faith (recorded in the books U2 by U2 and the steve stockman book).

cool. Ever noticed that prayer never grows people arms or legs and only ever does things that can plausibly be explained without the need for any form of magic?

1) humans were created to be in a relationship with God.

What exactly does this mean... 'to be in relationship with God' ? Does it mean to basically... carry on your life as is, while 'honouring' God? Seems like a rather ephemeral meaning considering eternal life.

 

[boris]

They would pray for people to break off their addiction to heroin, and people would be freed from heroin addiction instantly, which if you know about heroin addiction is a powerful thing.

Bullshit. I find that extremely hard to believe. Where did this come from? The word of Bono?

1) humans were created to be in a relationship with God.
2) however since Adam blotted his copybook, the problem of "sin" occured, and human beings have a problem with sin, that is we basically choose to go our own way rather than go God's way
3) Because of the nature of God who is holy (that is perfect), we are condemed to die. In order to relate to God somebody needed to pay the price for our sin, so that's where Jesus dying on the cross for us comes in.
4) We can be forgiven by asking God to forgive us via what Jesus did. Therefore now we can choose to be back right with God.

This is the other issue I have. Some person in the local paper wrote a letter about how if God was to get rid of all the sinners in the world, where would he start? Murderers, thieves, etc...
I don't get that. Why does he have to get rid of sinners? Why can't he just get rid of sin. You all say 'well humans created sin, and humans turned their back, and the bible and bla blah', but none of you can answer why, if God had the power to create the universe in the first place, can't he just abolish Sin?
If God creates everything, he created sin. It's not a human construct, it's his own doing.

 

[KFunk]

KFunk I study Economics and Education , not physics, but I think the point of miracles is that they can violate the natural laws of physics.

That's fine, as long as you realise that you're denying one of the foundational theorems of modern science.

Your point about the McMansions thing is interesting, but it is globalisation that has created unequal distribution, not God. The bible does say that humans are responsible for how this planet is run. And God has already shown poor people (well everyone) he loves them by at the very least giving them his son to die in our place.

I agree that economic forces have generated the unequal distrubution. However, the issue I'm refering to emerges when people claim that god is responsible for positive things (e.g. prosperity) whilst ignoring the fact that poverty and destitution remain. A god that will bless people with mansions and save babies from tornados while leaving the developing world destitute is not one I would be willing to support. As a student of economics you have probably noticed a tendency for the wealthy to prosper while the poor are ground into the dirt --> I simply can't handle it when the wealthy thank god for his grace while people suffer from malnutrition, disease, crime and civil war all over the world.

Once more: I don't understand how people can believe in a god that blesses the wealthy whilst ignoring the destitute (please note that I'm not claiming that this is a unviersal belief amongst theists).

 

[Kwayera]

I don't think the Dawkins argument about "Religion was invented to meet some human need" is nescarily convincing, because the same could be said of atheism, that people who decide they are athiests could do so simply to justify hedonistic behaviour on their part.

Sorry, we're atheists because we need an excuse to be hedonistic? Does this mean, in your eyes, that atheists = hedonists? I'm just checking, because I'm SURE you're not misguided enough to believe that anyone who DOESN'T fall prey to religion is only claiming so to give themselves an excuse to be a misanthropist, right?

 

[youBROKEmyLIFE]

I don't think the Dawkins argument about "Religion was invented to meet some human need" is nescarily convincing, because the same could be said of atheism, that people who decide they are athiests could do so simply to justify hedonistic behaviour on their part.

No matter how hedonistic we are it all comes to an end, the greatest treasure of them all in my estimation would be eternal life... especially one of utmost pleasure as apparently we recieve if we go to heaven?

 

[KFunk]

Sorry, we're atheists because we need an excuse to be hedonistic? Does this mean, in your eyes, that atheists = hedonists? I'm just checking, because I'm SURE you're not misguided enough to believe that anyone who DOESN'T fall prey to religion is only claiming so to give themselves an excuse to be a misanthropist, right?

Haha, I'm an atheist and an ethical relativist and I still don't eat meat as a result of the ethical views I hold (despite acknowledging that they are just subjective preferences).

To surjulz: your 'hedonism' point is a strawman argument. I am still restrained by a value system despite being an atheist and an ethical relativist. As long as people like myself exist (and I assure you, there are may of us) you will need a stronger argument to explain away atheism. EDIT: I should also add that my ethical system is not simply a more relaxed version of a traditional judaeo-christian ethics, but rather it contains some moral beliefs that are not contained in such a traditional value system (i.e. my atheism does not simply make the moral life easier to bear) - for example, I feel that eating meat is wrong (which is permitted, it seems, in the new and old testament) and I view some of god's supposed actions as immoral, e.g. the destruction of Sodom.