Does God exist? (16 Viewers)

[katie tully]

Secondly, in response to the afterlife thing.

Many people have been 'clinically' dead for upwards of 40 minutes, and I know there is a lot of phenomena about tunnels and lights and stuff, all which have been to a fairly reasonable extent been explained. But if people can be dead for 40 minutes but not ascend to heaven, when does the actual ascent happen?

And I don't want any responses that include "well God must know that you're going to come back cos he can see the future" kind of shit.

 

[katie tully]

OMG
have you seen what katie tully has done to you all
get over the freaking animals!!!!

hey moll. we meet again :uhhuh:

No, you're a fucking idiot.

It's a valid question which others have been able to answer.

It's simple, do I need to spell it out for you? All I wanted to know, was if people believe there has to be something other than death for humans, does this apply to animals. Why are you being such a fucking idiot about it?

 

[katie tully]

Animals are brought back to life, just like humans, they get dealt their punishments. So as i said before if animal A hits animal B, and animal B doesn't hit it back. Then in the after life animal B gets the chance to hit animal A back.

But to me this doesn't seem to fit with the argument that;

Animals don't have the same sort of 'level of understaning' as humans,

If they don't have the same level of understanding, how can they be punished with good v. bad. If animals don't have the capacity to determine that biting animal X is a bad thing to do, how can they be judged accordingly?

Well nobody can say definitively that there's "nothing more

Cool. Nobody can say there is anything more either. Why is it easier to comprehend that a supernatural being as more in store for us, than it is to believe that when we die, we die. Are people that scared of having their lives mean nothing after death that they compensate it with believing in an afterlife?

To me, I believe that what we make of our time on Earth is the meaning of life. Why does there have to be something more to it?

 

[moll.]

Secondly, in response to the afterlife thing.

Many people have been 'clinically' dead for upwards of 40 minutes, and I know there is a lot of phenomena about tunnels and lights and stuff, all which have been to a fairly reasonable extent been explained. But if people can be dead for 40 minutes but not ascend to heaven, when does the actual ascent happen?

And I don't want any responses that include "well God must know that you're going to come back cos he can see the future" kind of shit.

Where's firstly?

 

[katie tully]

Where's firstly?

Other people have already posted about the afterlife.

I was following on from that.

 

[moll.]

Other people have already posted about the afterlife.

I was following on from that.

Fair enough.

EDIT: Oh and also

Why is it easier to comprehend that a supernatural being as more in store for us, than it is to believe that when we die, we die. Are people that scared of having their lives mean nothing after death that they compensate it with believing in an afterlife?

It's not easier, it's just more comfortable for them to do so. It's a form of escapism, where they can avoid the realities of existence and the knowledge that one day it will all end. It's also a way of escaping the pain that comes along with life, because it means that despite what you go through when alive, there is something more, a better place and a better world.

 

[TacoTerrorist]

$hiftyIceQueen, leave this thread before your soul gets ripped out by bigotted atheists hungry for fresh blood.

 

[$hiftyIceQueen]

Well what happens in other points of time where our physical brain lets us down and we descend into unconsciousness? You ever been knocked out or had surgery or anything? I imagine it's quite so like that.

BTW this does really suck.

No. Never had anything like that happen. Which might be why i can't imagine that happening, or else it's just because i was raised to believe there will be an afterlife and of all that.

Yes. Your brain dies, and thus what made you "you" - your consciousness as a function of your brain function - ceases to exist.

A fairly obvious aspect of consciousness being related entirely to neural activity is that brain damage impairs how you think, feel and react to reality. I'm sorry to say but there's nothing really after this life, my main man.

So you all think when you die it all goes dark, and the end? All of you are 100% certain of this? What happens if you turn out to be wrong?

AND do you guys believe there is no god& no afterlife because of the lack of proof to support it or is it more of a 'if god existed then nobody would be dying because of stupid wars etc'?

By the way I find it interesting that you say you believe in religion because you believe in an afterlife... What do you have to offer up as evidence for the afterlife (you can't use religion otherwise you're being circular) other than hopeful anecdotes like "it'd fucking suck if this is all there is :|" ? If your reasons for believing in the afterlife are just hopeful musings then as that's why you believe in your religion this gives me some vindication for my view that religion isn't something most people believe in, just something they hope is true.

I think there is an afterlife for the simple fact that i don't see how we can just die and then be forgotten. It's nothing about 'it would suck if there wasn't one' i just have this belief that there is MORE than just...this? I could show you what is in the Quran, or Bible, but that's not exactly 'enough proof'; i think its more a personal thing. You have a heap of religious texts, it comes down to believing in them or not. &I believe everything was created like this because of god.

Believing in the afterlife, which makes me believe in god, who is connected to religion. So it comes down to which one is correct, and i asked some guy on this forum ages ago about Judaism and he was all 'i'll PM you stuff' and lol he never did. Christianity to me seems to wrong [no offence]. So i believe in Islam, and i was raised into it. I mean i know there are things in the Quran about like 'cutting the hands of theives' and the one about people having sex before/outside of marriage and a heap of other punishments which i don't exactly think should exist because if god wants them to be punished they should be punished in the afterlife.

And even though you said not to use religion to back it up, i think if you believe in god, religion, the afterlife or whatever, theyre all related and you need each of them to back the other up.

Hope that made sense. & i know people here will probably think its stupid and stuff, since my friends have already told me so.


Ohh and im not here to convince anyone to believe in god or religion. So nobody bother telling me to prove myself, coz everything i believe in to do with my religion is from faith/me believing in it. It's not really 'oh there's a scientific fact that can support what im saying' because there isn't much of that.

 

[katie tully]

No, there should be more religious posters like Shifty.

 

[moll.]

So you all think when you die it all goes dark, and the end? All of you are 100% certain of this? What happens if you turn out to be wrong?

AND do you guys believe there is no god& no afterlife because of the lack of proof to support it or is it more of a 'if god existed then nobody would be dying because of stupid wars etc'?

It doesn't go dark, because for us to recognise darkness would involve some sort of cognitive ability to recognise it, but because our brains are dead we would have no such ability.
If we turn out to be wrong and if there is a heaven and hell? Well, i intend to live a happy and healthy life without doing excessive harm to others along my way (kinda hard not to do any harm at all). If your god really is merciful and kind then he would let me into heaven. And if he's not, well then the idea of being separated from him for all of eternity in hell doesn't scare me all that much.
I don't believe in the afterlife cos my logic is screaming at me otherwise. I also don't believe in God-the-creationist or God-the-miracle worker, so the only form of God that i recognise is God-the-emotional crutch. This God helps us in our times of emotional need and gives us solace in our darkest hours. But this God is only an idea. No more.

 

[$hiftyIceQueen]

Secondly, in response to the afterlife thing.

Many people have been 'clinically' dead for upwards of 40 minutes, and I know there is a lot of phenomena about tunnels and lights and stuff, all which have been to a fairly reasonable extent been explained. But if people can be dead for 40 minutes but not ascend to heaven, when does the actual ascent happen?

And I don't want any responses that include "well God must know that you're going to come back cos he can see the future" kind of shit.

I think nobody goes to heaven or hell as soon as they die, on judgement day you either go to heaven or hell, and thats the first time you set foot there. There is like a spiritual sort of thing where, once you die and are buried and the angels come to question you about god, you either get this form of punishment in your grave, or else you get a special treatment [which i thought both aren't actually physical]. This is from what i remember about my religion though.

Also i don't really believe anyone who's all 'i saw the light'. IMO it was just their illusions or dreams or something.

But to me this doesn't seem to fit with the argument that;


If they don't have the same level of understanding, how can they be punished with good v. bad. If animals don't have the capacity to determine that biting animal X is a bad thing to do, how can they be judged accordingly?

Because they can understand certain things, they just aren't as 'great' or whatever as humans.

Under my religion it's like 'animals were made first, but god then created humans who were more perfect than animals' which is kinda why they have a different 'afterlife'.

Cool. Nobody can say there is anything more either. Why is it easier to comprehend that a supernatural being as more in store for us, than it is to believe that when we die, we die. Are people that scared of having their lives mean nothing after death that they compensate it with believing in an afterlife?

To me, I believe that what we make of our time on Earth is the meaning of life. Why does there have to be something more to it?

Because you're if you just die, then no matter what you did it was for the future people who won't give a shit about you?

You live your life however you like, and in the end you die leaving everything for someone else. You could have saved some little kid from being killed and people might be all 'omg pedo!!!' you go to gaol&die. Then that person lived&died for nothing?

It's more about 'what about the people who do bad things and aren't punished'? Same with 'good people'. I just think there's got to be a time when everyone receives something for the actions they commited.

No, there should be more religious posters like Shifty.

lol you wouldn't say that if you read my first posts.

 

[$hiftyIceQueen]

It doesn't go dark, because for us to recognise darkness would involve some sort of cognitive ability to recognise it, but because our brains are dead we would have no such ability.
If we turn out to be wrong and if there is a heaven and hell? Well, i intend to live a happy and healthy life without doing excessive harm to others along my way (kinda hard not to do any harm at all). If your god really is merciful and kind then he would let me into heaven. And if he's not, well then the idea of being separated from him for all of eternity in hell doesn't scare me all that much.
I don't believe in the afterlife cos my logic is screaming at me otherwise. I also don't believe in God-the-creationist or God-the-miracle worker, so the only form of God that i recognise is God-the-emotional crutch. This God helps us in our times of emotional need and gives us solace in our darkest hours. But this God is only an idea. No more.

Okay, i meant it in more of a it goes dark and then you die. I totally screwed up the wording though.

Have you been raised in a religious family? Because seriously, like i went to arabic school every sundays and basically every week they would tell you about 'this level of hell has people hanging from their toes and they burn until...'. Seriously, scared the crap out of me. ):

 

[moll.]

Have you been raised in a religious family? Because seriously, like i went to arabic school every sundays and basically every week they would tell you about 'this level of hell has people hanging from their toes and they burn until...'. Seriously, scared the crap out of me. ):

Of course it scared the crap out of you. The whole concept is designed to do that. It's another form of control which can be exercised by the church and those in power within the religious establishment. If you don't do as they say, you'll spend all of eternity in intolerable pain. But if you do, you'll get rewarded with an eternity of happiness and joy.
And i was raised by my parents to form my own opinion. I remember asking them about their religious views when i was young and whilst i didn't recognise it then, i realise now that their answers were purposely hazy, in order to allow me to come to my own conclusion. I only found out the other month that my dad is an atheist. It's been over 17 years and he never once mentioned that to me.
But i experimented in my young early teens with multiple religions. I tried Christianity, attended church and youth group, and found that it wasn't for me. I tried Buddhism even, but again, whilst i respect Buddhists and believe that theirs truly is the best religion, it wasn't for me.

 

[hsb39]

God does not fucking exist. This thread can now be locked.

You present a strong point. But, I think that some arguments might help.

 

[nikolas]

You present a strong one. But, I think that some arguments might help.

They have no argument he exists, is my argument.

 

[nikolas]

I think nobody goes to heaven or hell as soon as they die, on judgement day you either go to heaven or hell, and thats the first time you set foot there. There is like a spiritual sort of thing where, once you die and are buried and the angels come to question you about god, you either get this form of punishment in your grave, or else you get a special treatment [which i thought both aren't actually physical]. This is from what i remember about my religion though.

Also i don't really believe anyone who's all 'i saw the light'. IMO it was just their illusions or dreams or something.

Because they can understand certain things, they just aren't as 'great' or whatever as humans.

Under my religion it's like 'animals were made first, but god then created humans who were more perfect than animals' which is kinda why they have a different 'afterlife'.


Because you're if you just die, then no matter what you did it was for the future people who won't give a shit about you?

You live your life however you like, and in the end you die leaving everything for someone else. You could have saved some little kid from being killed and people might be all 'omg pedo!!!' you go to gaol&die. Then that person lived&died for nothing?

It's more about 'what about the people who do bad things and aren't punished'? Same with 'good people'. I just think there's got to be a time when everyone receives something for the actions they commited.


lol you wouldn't say that if you read my first posts.

Oh i get it, the universe is run on emotions and morals. Youve got me converted, i mean come on how i come i didnt see it before, i mean, i like it when good things happen and im moral and shiz so logically the universe some how runs to reward being virtous and doing good shit. Perfectly logical

 

[Leo 100]

No, it was just that you said "we meet again", as in "Well Mr Bond, it would appear that we meet again... Muahahaha"

Like i said, too many Bond movies.

definately

 

[Leo 100]

No, you're a fucking idiot.

It's a valid question which others have been able to answer.

It's simple, do I need to spell it out for you? All I wanted to know, was if people believe there has to be something other than death for humans, does this apply to animals. Why are you being such a fucking idiot about it?

every time i read a post by you i piss my self laughing
ha ha ha ha

 

[katie tully]

every time i read a post by you i piss my self laughing
ha ha ha ha

Pissing yourself isn't a normal human reaction, get that checked out ASAP

 

[Leo 100]

Pissing yourself isn't a normal human reaction, get that checked out ASAP

HA HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaa