Does God exist? (2 Viewers)

[fernando]

you'd think so. but when jesus died you could see god's wrath upon the earth, like, the curtain in the temple tore, there was an earthquake, rocks split, tombs of saints and stuff were opened, and a great darkness went across the earth. so i suppose that kinda indicates god was sad/angry/upset.

any evidence to prove this? not the bible.

 

[ChockoRepublic]

Hey emy, if Mother Theresa decided in the latter part of her life that she'd rather be Muslim, would she be condemned to hell if it turned out that Christianity was indeed the correct religion?

I mean, she was the model human being. Never did a thing wrong. Should she really be sent to hell just because she followed another religion, while another devote christian, albeit murderer, is able to enjoy heaven?


It's all messed up don't you think? God is messed up.

 

[Darnie]

any evidence to prove this? not the bible.

haha yes it is, matthew chapter 27, 45-54.
lol

 

[xeuyrawp]

his interpretation is not wrong

Yes it is.

Whilst there will always certainly discussion about the nature of the punishment (eg traditionalism vs annihilationism), it is stated that those who act evilly will be judged.

 

[Kwayera]

Hey emy, if Mother Theresa decided in the latter part of her life that she'd rather be Muslim, would she be condemned to hell if it turned out that Christianity was indeed the correct religion?

I mean, she was the model human being. Never did a thing wrong. Should she really be sent to hell just because she followed another religion, while another devote christian, albeit murderer, is able to enjoy heaven?


It's all messed up don't you think? God is messed up.

Except for the fact that Mother Theresa was a crazy psycho racist/sectarian bitch

 

[veloc1ty]

^ That is a slight flaw with the question, but you can't blame him for trying.

 

[Enteebee]

Except for the fact that Mother Theresa was a crazy psycho racist/sectarian bitch

also likely an atheist.

 

[Kwayera]

Can't say the same about Ghandi, who was also a crazy racist sectarian

 

[Enteebee]

Can't say the same about Ghandi, who was also a crazy racist sectarian

Some of Ghandi's closest supporters were atheists, a lot of marxist/atheists were also influential in the indian independence movement. Ghandi was a bit of a nutter in some ways, but I'd argue he was an overall positive influence... He was very much a product of his time/place.

i.e. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goparaju_Ramachandra_Rao

 

[Lukybear]

Hey emy, if Mother Theresa decided in the latter part of her life that she'd rather be Muslim, would she be condemned to hell if it turned out that Christianity was indeed the correct religion?

I mean, she was the model human being. Never did a thing wrong. Should she really be sent to hell just because she followed another religion, while another devote christian, albeit murderer, is able to enjoy heaven?


It's all messed up don't you think? God is messed up.

From the Christian prespective we must realise that we are not here on earth for our own benefits. The world does not encircle humans, instead it is God who stands at the centre.

Applying this to your question, the hard truth is yes, she will. Even tho she has never done wrong, she has worshipped idols, distrusted God and so on...

 

[gibbo153]

Well that's not really a sacrifice to all, is it?

Don't you think it seems a little unfair that non-Christians who have no chance to convert to Christianity (even though they may still lead good lives) burn in hell, while murderers receive the grace of god?

That being said, your interpretation of the Bible is wrong. It is clearly stated variously that those who act poorly will be judged, whatever the hell that means.

hmm it is 'to all' in the sense that anyone who accepts the gift of grace can. but yes you are correct in the sense that even though jesus died for sinners, not all sinners will accept the gift.

no i assure you my interpretation of the bible is not incorrect. yes that is stated. there are many verses that attest to that indeed "the wages of sin is death" and so on and so forth.

however, jesus, took our sin onto him.

i am not in any way attempting to imply that a christian shouldn't bother trying to live well. it is quite the opposite in fact, as a christian one should want to live the way that god wants us to live.

also about your point about burning in hell, hell is by definition a place without god.

god is perfect, what a lot of people don't understand is that he cannot just 'let people in' who are 'leading good lives'. as i said before we are all imperfect. noone is perfect. can you see that perfect is a state of being unblemished? obviously some people are nicer and lead more compassionate lives and so on, but they are still blemished. they have sinned. we have all sinned.

the bible says we are saved not by our own works, we cannot earn salvation by 'leading good lives' as you say. jesus says 'noone comes to the father except through me'. leading a good life does not get you into heaven. only faith in jesus

Ephesians 2:8-10 (New International Version)

8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

 

[gibbo153]

Hey emy, if Mother Theresa decided in the latter part of her life that she'd rather be Muslim, would she be condemned to hell if it turned out that Christianity was indeed the correct religion?

I mean, she was the model human being. Never did a thing wrong. Should she really be sent to hell just because she followed another religion, while another devote christian, albeit murderer, is able to enjoy heaven?


It's all messed up don't you think? God is messed up.

we are seeing her from a human perspective. if we put her (if she discontinued her faith) and a serial killer up against each other, we see a blatant contrast, we see a good person and a bad person. we see, what we assume is one person who deserves heaven and one who doesnt.

god would see two people who don't deserve heaven. neither person is more close to perfection than another. perfect and imperfect are two inverses. there is no in between in god's eyes.

 

[gibbo153]

hmm its not like religion becomes any less relevant over time.

people still die.
the issues surrounding death will always keep people interested in religion.

 

[gibbo153]

what about the people [eg, muslim, buddhist, etc] that never had a chance to convert to christianity because they've never left their home country, do they burn in hell too? because then they're doomed from the time they're born. how fair is that?

i also don't believe in a god who can let kids die so young, when they have so much to live for.

so god hasn't ever answered my prayers, even when i did believe in him.

another thing to realise is god's omniscience. he is infinitely intelligent, just and compassionate.

he knows the intention of our hearts. people who go 'oh yeah ill just convert on my death bed yiew heaven eshays', well god can read their hearts. chances are that someone like that does not have real faith in jesus for their salvation and won't be saved anyway.

in regard to people who 'never hear' the word and then can never be saved, i again refer to god's omniscience. he created those people, he knows more about them than they or anyone else will ever know. and in his infinite wisdom and judgement will be able to judge them accordingly.

my aunty's first child died two days after birth. which was hard for us all. but god made the child, and knew everything about it, and will be able to know what to do.

people think judgement is basically a production line of people then god is at the front with a hell/heaven button and you get in if you said magic words liek 'ok god im a christian now' at any time during your life. its not really like that. you can't beat the system by trying to becom saved on your deathbed. god knows every intention of your heart

 

[HalcyonSky]

another thing to realise is god's omniscience. he is infinitely intelligent, just and compassionate.

he knows the intention of our hearts. people who go 'oh yeah ill just convert on my death bed yiew heaven eshays', well god can read their hearts. chances are that someone like that does not have real faith in jesus for their salvation and won't be saved anyway.

in regard to people who 'never hear' the word and then can never be saved, i again refer to god's omniscience. he created those people, he knows more about them than they or anyone else will ever know. and in his infinite wisdom and judgement will be able to judge them accordingly.

my aunty's first child died two days after birth. which was hard for us all. but god made the child, and knew everything about it, and will be able to know what to do.

people think judgement is basically a production line of people then god is at the front with a hell/heaven button and you get in if you said magic words liek 'ok god im a christian now' at any time during your life. its not really like that. you can't beat the system by trying to becom saved on your deathbed. god knows every intention of your heart

LOL

09'ers are a great bunch

 

[ChockoRepublic]

LOL

09'ers are a great bunch

they're gonna drive this website to the shithouse i tells ya!

 

[fernando]

haha yes it is, matthew chapter 27, 45-54.
lol

umm no. i said not the bible. something with a bit more.. substance?

 

[gibbo153]

umm no. i said not the bible. something with a bit more.. substance?

its a bit of an unreasonable question to ask someone to explain parts of christian belief without reference to the bible.

the bible is actually more historically credible as a source than a great deal of the sources we use for our information on like Julius Caeser etc

look up some stuff about John Dickson's 'The christ files'

p.s do not try and discredit what i just said unless you have had a look at the christ files.. its also a video and is probably on youtube.

 

[nikolas]

LOL

09'ers are a great bunch

I would like to to point out these idiots do not represent the opinions of 09ers as a whole.

We promise, we will try to keep them in their cages from now on.

/Fetches christian beating stick

 

[nikolas]

hmm its not like religion becomes any less relevant over time.

people still die.
the issues surrounding death will always keep people interested in religion.

Just as relevant phrenology is to psychology.