Does God exist? (13 Viewers)

[Titburger]

@ Scorch No but does the evidence point to order coming from disorder, life coming from life? Theism makes sense, atheism doesnt.

cool story bro, I didn't realise you had figured out the intricate details of the origins of the universe. I forgot that 'God did it' is a valid answer in understanding the mechanics of the universe and will lead us towards other significant scientific discoveries. Must of just forgot ay

 

[Titburger]

But wernt you one of the people who demanded that God being eternal demands something to create that.

I dont really see how this is that complex a question. The way I see it either the big bang just happened or something created the big bang.

You can't say that the big bang required a creator but not apply that same logic to the creator in question. This has been addressed thousands of times in this thread

 

[Heggarty]

Other scientific discovies?? dude how is science ever going to be able to account for the great complexity of life? The ridiculous perfection, moral law? Love? conscience? Justice?

I could post a page of all the impossibilities that are required to sustain human life and to me that points to a creator.

 

[Heggarty]

You can't say that the big bang required a creator but not apply that same logic to the creator in question. This has been addressed thousands of times in this thread

Of course you can. God has no beginning. The Universe has a beginning.

 

[tommykins]

Other scientific discovies?? dude how is science ever going to be able to account for the great complexity of life? The ridiculous perfection, moral law? Love? conscience? Justice?

I could post a page of all the impossibilities that are required to sustain human life and to me that points to a creator.

1. read page 1 - complexity is subjective and undefined.
2. perfection/moral law? how about instinct/intuition developed through evolution
3. love is chemical reactions
4. neurons/chemical reactions
5. justice - refer to 2.

 

[SeCKSiiMiNh]

Of course you can. God has no beginning. The Universe has a beginning.

lol you seem so certain. did you read it in a science textbook somewhere?

 

[Heggarty]

I dont have time to retort all those points maybe tomorrow. Im off to bed. Was great talking to you guys.

You guys are all really respectful.

 

[Heggarty]

lol you seem so certain. did you read it in a science textbook somewhere?

Yeah. big bang start of the universe.

 

[SeCKSiiMiNh]

I dont have time to retort all those points maybe tomorrow. Im off to bed. Was great talking to you guys.

You guys are all really respectful.

i love you.
lets butt sex

 

[tommykins]

A funny quote from a lecturer my gf has -

"Religious people often resort to the whole 'respect my position plz' which to me is absolutely ridiculous, the matter isn't even about respect. Stop making strawmen and start talking about the evidence and points at hand, it's kind of hard to respect you when you're either wrong or creeping into the corner and pulling out 'respect' for no reason".

I found it hilarious.

 

[Titburger]

I dont have time to retort all those points maybe tomorrow. Im off to bed. Was great talking to you guys.

You guys are all really respectful.

lols at the respect card

 

[SeCKSiiMiNh]

Yeah. big bang start of the universe.

i meant your entire post - including the bit about god \

lol numbskull

 

[Scorch]

Other scientific discovies?? dude how is science ever going to be able to account for the great complexity of life? The ridiculous perfection, moral law? Love? conscience? Justice?

This is the worst argument ever. As you contritely ignored, I showed you that moral law doesn't exist. I'm not sure what perfection you mean when we are battered around by natural disasters and catastrophes as part of the natural workings of the earth.

Let me put it this way: looking at something and saying "I don't understand this, it's so complex so it's proof for God" is never a scientifically valid argument and never will be.

Even were it so, we can still scientifically disprove the Bible and Quran on so many points of basic biology, physics, history and sociology to the point that we can almost demonstrably say that their Gods do not exist, if we look at their value as sources.

Please start dealing in facts and evidence.

I could post a page of all the impossibilities that are required to sustain human life and to me that points to a creator.

Not impossibilities: improbabilities.

 

[Titburger]

Other scientific discovies?? dude how is science ever going to be able to account for the great complexity of life? The ridiculous perfection, moral law? Love? conscience? Justice?

I could post a page of all the impossibilities that are required to sustain human life and to me that points to a creator.

Do you have any idea of the scope of the universe?

The Universe is very large and possibly infinite in volume; the observable matter is spread over a space at least 93 billion light years across.[14] For comparison, the diameter of a typical galaxy is only 30,000 light-years, and the typical distance between two neighboring galaxies is only 3 million light-years.[15] As an example, our Milky Way Galaxy is roughly 100,000 light years in diameter,[16] and our nearest sister galaxy, the Andromeda Galaxy, is located roughly 2.5 million light years away.[17] There are probably more than 100 billion (1011) galaxies in the observable universe.[18] Typical galaxies range from dwarfs with as few as ten million[19] (107) stars up to giants with one trillion[20] (1012) stars, all orbiting the galaxy's center of mass. Thus, a very rough estimate from these numbers would suggest there are around one sextillion (1021) stars in the observable universe; though a 2003 study by Australian National University astronomers resulted in a figure of 70 sextillion (7 x 1022)[21].

It makes sense that the only place in the known universe to sustain life would have conditions suitable for this life.

 

[nevery]

I believe that God exists. Since God is a supernatural being, His entity itself cannot be proved or disproved by science. It is a faith issue. The bible deals with what happened and why, whereas science deals with how. Science is good at doing some things, other things it is not. Everything of this world has its limitations.

Having said that, I'm not going to get involved in a massive debate here.

 

[Heggarty]

I agree, I think we are getting science and philosphy/theology mixed up. Science can never prove or disprove god. To some it leads people to god to others it leads people away.

 

[Heggarty]

This is the worst argument ever. As you contritely ignored, I showed you that moral law doesn't exist. I'm not sure what perfection you mean when we are battered around by natural disasters and catastrophes as part of the natural workings of the earth.

Let me put it this way: looking at something and saying "I don't understand this, it's so complex so it's proof for God" is never a scientifically valid argument and never will be.

Even were it so, we can still scientifically disprove the Bible and Quran on so many points of basic biology, physics, history and sociology to the point that we can almost demonstrably say that their Gods do not exist, if we look at their value as sources.

Please start dealing in facts and evidence.



Not impossibilities: improbabilities.

You didnt show me moral law doesnt exist. You just said we have evolved to a higher social order, that doesnt disprove moral law.

Deal with facts and evidence ive tried but your only rebbuttal when I supply most atheists with facts on order and design is that "Oh well just cause we dont understand it doesnt mean god did it" but God is a rational reason and its simply closed minded that whenever someone hits you up with facts about evidence that atheists drag out the old you dont understand card. Because we have a perfectly good explanation in god.

To me the order and design points to a creator, the evidence I provide you with doesnt fit in with your worldview thus you dismiss it as not being evidence.

 

[trickx]

You didnt show me moral law doesnt exist. You just said we have evolved to a higher social order, that doesnt disprove moral law.

Deal with facts and evidence ive tried but your only rebbuttal when I supply most atheists with facts on order and design is that "Oh well just cause we dont understand it doesnt mean god did it" but God is a rational reason and its simply closed minded that whenever someone hits you up with facts about evidence that atheists drag out the old you dont understand card. Because we have a perfectly good explanation in god.

To me the order and design points to a creator, the evidence I provide you with doesnt fit in with your worldview thus you dismiss it as not being evidence.

To point to God as an explanation is rational?
If you cannot first prove God exists, then it is irrational to say God is the source of anything. This is the very definition of the 'god of the gaps argument' .. or lack of argument. I mean, what argument would you have used before atomic theory was discovered, or evolution for that matter? You create a mystery where none is needed.

With respect to moral laws - other higher forms of mammalian species display very similar behaviours that immitate our morality. Chimpanzees form groups and families, attend to those in need of aid, show emotions of empathy and similar versions of love. Must these species also worship a creator too? Human morality is innate within our species. Every society in the development of humanity held these morals. They appeared in the Annalex of Confucious long before Judaism and Christianty were on the scene and saying that without God eonforcing a law of morality onto us would be a fantastic insult to us.

An evolutionary explanation of morality is much more convincing than pointing to a deity.

 

[Scorch]

I believe that God exists. Since God is a supernatural being, His entity itself cannot be proved or disproved by science. It is a faith issue. The bible deals with what happened and why, whereas science deals with how. Science is good at doing some things, other things it is not. Everything of this world has its limitations.

No it doesn't. Science is more than capable of telling us what happened and why, and showing that the Bible's account of what happened is consistently and utterly wrong on many counts.

As I said, God as a vague concept cannot be disproved (though as a separate concept, to claim it is illogical to suggest something doesn't exist if there is no evidence to suggest is absurd; am I illogical in saying "unicorns do not exist"? not at all), the veracity of the Bible, however, can be shot to pieces by anyone with a rational mind.

You didnt show me moral law doesnt exist. You just said we have evolved to a higher social order, that doesnt disprove moral law.

Deal with facts and evidence ive tried but your only rebbuttal when I supply most atheists with facts on order and design is that "Oh well just cause we dont understand it doesnt mean god did it" but God is a rational reason and its simply closed minded that whenever someone hits you up with facts about evidence that atheists drag out the old you dont understand card. Because we have a perfectly good explanation in god.

To me the order and design points to a creator, the evidence I provide you with doesnt fit in with your worldview thus you dismiss it as not being evidence.

Oh good lord.

Where do I start?

Okay ...

God is a rational reason: No it is not. For a positive claim you need positive proof. That is if I say "God did it" then I need to be able to show that God fucking well did it. I cannot say "God did it" and then when I am questioned for proof respond with "Well everything's so complex that it fits my narrow understanding of the universe to think that God did it".

Well you can ... but you will be ridiculed as you are being now.

It is closed minded to reject such assertions: No it is not. You are the closed-minded one in this argument. You are pointing to a phenomenon we can understand, explain and, in scientific analysis, see no evidence for anything other than a naturalistic explanation and saying that "GOD DID IT", and then when people say "where is your proof for this claim?" you say "you can't disprove it!". That's closed-mindedness and false logic at its idiotic worst.

If you want to make a claim you must have positive, hard evidence to support it. Making a claim and then, when questioned for proof, responding with reasons why you can't technically prove that it didn't happen and why your narrow understanding makes it a nice idea to think that this is how things were is not, and never will be, accepted by a rational person.

Because we have a perfectly good explanation in god.: The God explanation is atrocious, but before I engage this I'd like to find out which explanation you are discussing. The Biblical one, I take it?

 

[Titburger]

I believe that God exists. Since God is a supernatural being, His entity itself cannot be proved or disproved by science. It is a faith issue. The bible deals with what happened and why, whereas science deals with how. Science is good at doing some things, other things it is not. Everything of this world has its limitations.

Having said that, I'm not going to get involved in a massive debate here.