Footy Tips for the week (2 Viewers)

[Loz#1]

I'm not a happy camper.

 

[billbro]

i'll tell you how one could possibly know they would get injured again, easy, the team doctor. he is there for a reason. he keeps track of players injuries. he knows of injuries that are recurring, like hamstrings and carves, dragons players seem to have a lot of problems with that.

Even so that only reveals the tendency of a player being injured, yet it does not predict who will be injured just who might. So even with a medical record there is no guarantee who will or will not be injured that season. Also if you hadn't noticed a lot of players from a number of teams have been out on hamstring injuries. Also I may stand correct but Dragons players have been out for numerous different injuries it only seems like hamstring have been a large concern for Blacklock and Barrett.

I still firmly think you can not know when injuries will occur and as for injured players being offered contracts who wouldn't want Andrew John's in their side and he has had two season ending injuries in a row. Lastly would you have guessed Luke Bailey would tear a pectoral muscle just a Jason Ryles returns from a serious injury? I doubt it.

 

[nerd2die4]

Of course you cant predict when a player will gedt injured. but you can get an idea that the injury is most likely going to happen again. hamstrings was just one example, and barrett has had plenty of problems with that. and on the andrew johns thing, when re signing him i would look into his injury issues and then build up a contract around that. but gasnier is nowhere near as good a player as andrew johns is, and he has been injuured on numerous occasions yet the dragons still want to keep him. that is what im talking about, where you have an average player who is hardly ever playing and yo resign him.

 

[neonazi]

so u think that gasnier is only an average player??? origin 3 - 2 tries, 2 line breaks, and at least 2 try-saving tackles during the match. i dont think many average players would be able to pull off a performance like that.
and i would like to say that breatt kimmorley is among the most overrated players in the game. there would be at least half a dozen halfbacks goin around who r better than him, yet he receives all the accolades. he doesnt win games for the sharks, players like sullivan, bailey and nutley do. kimmorley is a lot more average than gasnier.
my opinion only. i expect to get slammed for it.

 

[billbro]

Of course you cant predict when a player will gedt injured. but you can get an idea that the injury is most likely going to happen again. hamstrings was just one example, and barrett has had plenty of problems with that. and on the andrew johns thing, when re signing him i would look into his injury issues and then build up a contract around that. but gasnier is nowhere near as good a player as andrew johns is, and he has been injuured on numerous occasions yet the dragons still want to keep him. that is what im talking about, where you have an average player who is hardly ever playing and yo resign him.

Ahhhh....have to retype my reply, stupid isp connection.

So are you suggesting that clubs drop there star 1st graders under the assumption they 'might' be more susceptible to injury? Barrett has had problems but so has Kimmorley and Gower for that matter, it has effected numerous players so are you implying they shouldn't be issued contracts? Also what other frequently reoccuring injuries are you refering to and how many other players in other clubs also face this injury? As for Andrew John's the whole League and Union affair shows how much he is wanted, I don't think clubs would want to focus on building a precautionary contract (nor do I know how they would much such a contract) around him if they ever got the chance to sign him. As for Gasnier I disagree because I certainly believe his is a valued player and I have no qualms about the club wanting to keep him. Another thing you may not have considered is that clubs aren't going to go willy nilly and dropping players because they have a contract to play out.

As for Neonazi, I undoubtably agree with the comments about Gasnier but not so much about Kimmorley. I personally think that Kimmorley is a good player in all respects yet many players like Nutley, Gallen, Sullivan, Hilder, Bailey are not given as much credit as they deserve. So while I think Kimmorley is a good player he is not the end all and be all for the Sharks which was seen when they smashed the Roosters.

 

[nerd2die4]

so u think that gasnier is only an average player??? origin 3 - 2 tries, 2 line breaks, and at least 2 try-saving tackles during the match. i dont think many average players would be able to pull off a performance like that.
and i would like to say that breatt kimmorley is among the most overrated players in the game. there would be at least half a dozen halfbacks goin around who r better than him, yet he receives all the accolades. he doesnt win games for the sharks, players like sullivan, bailey and nutley do. kimmorley is a lot more average than gasnier.
my opinion only. i expect to get slammed for it.

of course you will get slammed for comments like that. I think Gasnier is an average player, it doesnt matter how many rep. games he has played, because that does not determine the value of a player. its all politics, Daley worked for the dragons and Brown worked for Gould, dont you think that had a little impact in the decision to pick 4 dragons players, some whoy only played a handfull of games that season. an example to show you how rep selectors are complete dickheads, the weekend game. Sully v. wing and Peachey v. minnichello. i rate minnichello as an athlete but not as a footballer, he runs at the line hard and thats it. how many times have you seen him pass the ball or kick it? none, because it never happens. he is good at being told where to run and thats it. David peachey on the weekend made him look like a fool, the try peachey scored highlighted that. he kicked the ball and beat minnichello only centemetres before the line to socre, that is what a fullback does. and Wing, on the weekend he showed he is just a poor copy of sully. Sullivan completley outplayed him, sully does this weeek in week out as does peachy but minni and wing are rep players, go figure.

As you all know im a sharks fan. a mad fan actually, i live and breathe the sharks. so i know plent about them. kimmorley is definetley not overated if anything he doesnt het recognised enough, he has always been in the shadows of another Halfback when on most occassions he is just as good or even better. half a dozen halfacks are at least better than him? like who, he is one of the best halfbacks going around and really nobody can deny that. and those other sharks players you mentioned are definetley work horses, and they do get recognised for it. maybe not in rep. slections, but what does that mean? they play their guts out for the sharks and get recognised for it by the club and the fans. Nutley tops the tackling and hit up charts every week. sully definetley assists us in our attack, and is my favourite player, he was way before people are starting to recognise him now. Every player for the shark plays for the jersey, with passion and pride (except for vagana) and i can tell you not one of them goes unrecognised.

 

[MCOLT]

of course you will get slammed for comments like that. I think Gasnier is an average player, it doesnt matter how many rep. games he has played, because that does not determine the value of a player. its all politics, Daley worked for the dragons and Brown worked for Gould, dont you think that had a little impact in the decision to pick 4 dragons players, some whoy only played a handfull of games that season. an example to show you how rep selectors are complete dickheads, the weekend game. Sully v. wing and Peachey v. minnichello. i rate minnichello as an athlete but not as a footballer, he runs at the line hard and thats it. how many times have you seen him pass the ball or kick it? none, because it never happens. he is good at being told where to run and thats it. David peachey on the weekend made him look like a fool, the try peachey scored highlighted that. he kicked the ball and beat minnichello only centemetres before the line to socre, that is what a fullback does. and Wing, on the weekend he showed he is just a poor copy of sully. Sullivan completley outplayed him, sully does this weeek in week out as does peachy but minni and wing are rep players, go figure.

As you all know im a sharks fan. a mad fan actually, i live and breathe the sharks. so i know plent about them. kimmorley is definetley not overated if anything he doesnt het recognised enough, he has always been in the shadows of another Halfback when on most occassions he is just as good or even better. half a dozen halfacks are at least better than him? like who, he is one of the best halfbacks going around and really nobody can deny that. and those other sharks players you mentioned are definetley work horses, and they do get recognised for it. maybe not in rep. slections, but what does that mean? they play their guts out for the sharks and get recognised for it by the club and the fans. Nutley tops the tackling and hit up charts every week. sully definetley assists us in our attack, and is my favourite player, he was way before people are starting to recognise him now. Every player for the shark plays for the jersey, with passion and pride (except for vagana) and i can tell you not one of them goes unrecognised.

what are you retarted??
gasnier an average player pfft there is not many players that match gasniers speed agility and defence. what does politics have to do with it maybe they picked 4 dragons players because they have proved themselves over the season, not only in the origin games cooper and gasnier are the best possible pairing for origin and altough sully is a good player he does not deserve a place over gasnier in origin, and stuart raper would have to be the dumbest coach going around it takes him 20 minutes every game to figure sully could make an impact and by then the team is losing by 20.

As for peachey hes just a bloke that plays a good game every 3 games when he plays good sharks go good and sharks havent been playing good all season
have they?
minne is by far a more consisten player

Kimmorely is one of the greatest never was's in the game the bloke has nothing when the forwards dont go good and the sharks rely on him like an old man on a walking stick he gets the ball 4 times in a step its shocking. He never runs the ball and gowers kicking game is so much better than his its not even comparable. Kimmorely has no impact on the game he is just 5 foot worth of shit stacked on top of one another

as for 6 halfbacks better than kimmorely

1.andrew johns
2.craig gower
3.stacey jones
4.trent barret (origin)
5.brent sherwin
6.matt orford
7.joey williams
8.maybe kimmorely

 

[nerd2die4]

hahaha one post and your lack of knowledge is starting to show. you dont realise sullys role as an impact player do you. he has been trialed as a starting hooker in previous games but doesnt seem to have the same effect. he comes on after 20 minutes, that is when the opposing forwards are tired and his quick running gets quick and easy metres. he may very well one day be a starting hooker but intil now he stays an impact player of the bench.

Stacey jones better than kimmorley, hahaha, the bloke even ruled himself out of contention for playing for NZ because he hasnt been playing well at all. Trent Barrett is a 5/8 he has played a couple of games at halfback, and played them well but he isnt a halfback. Matt orford is a kimmorley clone, he directs the team like kimmorley, runs like kimmorley, kicks like kimmorley. joe williams, remember what happened the last time these two went up against each other? yeah the sharks beat souths, convincengly. Joe williams is doing well but only has played a handfull of games and kimmorley is of a much higher class. so i think your list is completley out of wack. you maybe are a st george fan, because they hate the sharks or maybe a manly fan, because when he was with you guys he was complete crap and probably feel hard done by because you have jye mullane as your half back, sorry no refunds.

 

[neonazi]

ok nerd...here goes

i have never rated minichiello highly. i thought he was a shit winger and i thought he was an ok fullback. he i sjust a commentator's favourite player so he gets lots of good things said about him, and when he screws up, which is often, they say it was just a momentary lapse or something. however i dont agree that peachey is a better fullback than him. peachy has a bit more creative flair, but from the games i have seen of him, he seems to lack a bit of toughness. i say he and mini r on the same level. i actually dont think we have any real good top of the line fullbacks at the moment. i dont rate hunt yet much. he has a sidestep, but catches the least amount of balls on the full than any other fullback and i havent seen him go very good in defence. i actually think that matt bowen is close to the best fullback in the game.

as for the dragons selections in origin 3, they had just scored to 50 point games in a row, and players like ryles and barett were back from injury. thats why there were lots of them in the team. but if u looked at the first squad for origin 1, gasnier was named as right centre which shows that he was regarded as a top centre in the game. now dont just go sayin that their selection was cos of the connections between gould and brown and daley etc, cos while that may play a little part, u would have to notice that the teams like the roosters and dragons contain a large part of the elite players in the comp, and thus should have a high representation in rep games.

now as for halfbacks, my ones that i rate higher than kimmorley r:-
-johns
-gower
-orford
-head
-jones
-sherwin
-prince
the only reason that kimmorley has played as many rep games as he has done is cos the ex-australian coach was his coach at melbourne and cronulla, so he had a big hand in the selection process. last season, i dont understand why gower wasnt the first choice halfback, his side had won the comp and kimmorleys hadnt even made the eight and finished around 12th or somthin like that. if he has to lead a team around the paddock, he musnt be doin a good job if their comin that low on the ladder. which is why i believe he is overrated.

so everythin i have said here is contradictory to nerds' views. i'll be interested to see what he/she (i'm sorry, i dont know which one u r???? and thats not meant to be a rude comment) comes up with in response.

 

[nerd2die4]

So neonazi you first say that the amount of dragons players in origin couldnt have been linked to Brown and gould, but the reason kimmorley gets picked for Rep. us because of anderson. hhmm already making sense.

one word for you:
Politics - plays a major role in everything that happens in the world, and it is no different in rugby league.

I'll give you the hot tip neo, halfbacks can only play as good as their forwards are playing. nearly everygame is won in the forwards. last year, jason stevens was not playing his best footy, so the sharks were not going forward. telll me how is kimmorley meant to play good footy when his forwards are slacking off? he cant, nobody can. they need room to move, and that is the case with every halfback.


Neonazi you then judge kimmorleys form on the position the sharks were on the ladder last year (or even this year). so tell me how does a player like prince and jones get before kimmorley? there teams aren't performing. the tigers have had around 3 matches this year where they havent scored a point. though we all know prince is a good halfback you just have to look at origin to realise that, but if we go by Neonazi's way of player analysis ( that is looking at a teams performance) kimmorley beats jones and prince.

 

[MCOLT]

So neonazi you first say that the amount of dragons players in origin couldnt have been linked to Brown and gould, but the reason kimmorley gets picked for Rep. us because of anderson. hhmm already making sense.

one word for you:
Politics - plays a major role in everything that happens in the world, and it is no different in rugby league.

I'll give you the hot tip neo, halfbacks can only play as good as their forwards are playing. nearly everygame is won in the forwards. last year, jason stevens was not playing his best footy, so the sharks were not going forward. telll me how is kimmorley meant to play good footy when his forwards are slacking off? he cant, nobody can. they need room to move, and that is the case with every halfback.


Neonazi you then judge kimmorleys form on the position the sharks were on the ladder last year (or even this year). so tell me how does a player like prince and jones get before kimmorley? there teams aren't performing. the tigers have had around 3 matches this year where they havent scored a point. though we all know prince is a good halfback you just have to look at origin to realise that, but if we go by Neonazi's way of player analysis ( that is looking at a teams performance) kimmorley beats jones and prince.

bloody internet connection
i had a long good reply but its gone now and im to lazy to type again

nerd honestly who would you rate as a better half back
gower or kimmorely

 

[nerd2die4]

It depends who else is playing in the tam. they are different styles of halfback. gower is a ball runner, kimmorley is more into the kicks and setting up others. gower sets up himself. they both do a good job. Notice not many points were scored in origin one, there were no tactical halfbacks, or players.

well really i cant seperate the 2, I keep them on the same level, for this year as both have had an injury riddelled season.

 

[billbro]

Ahhhhhhhh.........I had a really long reply but I got disconnected

 

[nerd2die4]

sum it up. it doesnt have to be long.

 

[billbro]

Basically here were the main points:

-Halfback dependant on forwards work both ways.
-Nerd2die4, you may have overlooked you bias on matters.
-Please explain you comments on building a contract around injured players.
-How about dropping Kimmorley considering his spell on the sidelines?
-Gower and Kimmorley have different styles yet both strive to set plays up for others not themselves.
-Orford is not a clone, he has a good kicking game but also takes the line.
-Jones has not been in top form but still can't justly be denied as a good halfback, either way he is still one of the warriors better players.
-Bias in selectors is detracted from Hornby being dropped
-Comparing players like Minichello and Wing must be based upon the whole season not upon one game where they were losing thus obviously a poorer performance.
-Peachey has a kicking game but not require in a fullback, getting the ball in play, defusing kicks and able to stop tries is more important - also compare his attacking power to Mini's and the amount of tries score.
-I believe Wing offers greater impact compared to Sullivan due to speed and agility.


I had more but its time for dinner and im annoyed enough at having to retype so much and its the second time its happened. Hopefully you can get the gist of what I am saying.

Also seems like a alot of the things you say nerd2die4 are very unfounded so it doesn't show you knowledge much more then others and nor does your punctuation. I do concede though that some of the things you say are correct.

 

[MCOLT]

gower v kimmorely

gower's kicking game is one of the best of the leauge, just look how he demolished manly

nerd said earlier that if jason stevens goes and the teams gos good, kimmorely plays well because he relies so heavily on the forwards the key factor that make s gower so much better than kimmorely is that when gower plays good penrith plays good not the other way around. when gower was out injured penrith lost most of their games (dont know the actual stat) that tells ya that gower is not only a better halfback but a better captain and player

 

[nerd2die4]

ohh yay an english lesson!!!!

first point: yes i agree halfback dependant on forwards does wrok both ways, often when a teams forwards dominate the halves play a good game.

Second point: you probably all don't think so, but i am so not a kimmorley fan, i have hated him ever since he has joined the sharks. however i will probably show nias towards peachey and sullivan because they are my favourite players.

Third point: well i think once a player gets lenghty injuries a few times (not sure how many, maybe an average will help) they should be on a contract for match payments, since in the past they have been on the sidelines more times then on the field. probably wont happen but i think this would probably work out cheaper for clubs.


4th point: I think kimmorley shouldn't play first grade this week, because kent has earned his position as halfback. if i was coach kimmorley would be playing premier league that week, or how ever many it takes for him to prove his fitness.

5th point: when i say 'sets up plays for themselves' i mean he is a runner. gower is that. he runs to the line and breaks, then he sets the plays up for others because he isnt too fast. I love it when kimmorley runs at the line but he deifinetley doenst do it as often as gower does. its like his specialty.

6th point: I think Orford plays a very similar game to kimmorley's. and his role at the club, as chief playmaker is one like kimmorley's at the sharks.

7th point : im not denying jones' playing ability i think he is a great player but he was being compared to kimmorley, and i think kimmorley is better than him

8th point: Should Hornby have been picked in the first place? Gould seen he couldnt get away with having him onboard again, so he dropped him. Hodgson from the tigers has been playing the most consistant footy out of all the fullbacks in the league. yet he wasnt even considered. He scores trys he sets them up, he saves trys and is a good alround player. but ofcourse he doesnt play for the team with the red V or the rorters, so he has no chance basically.

9th point: i have no time to compare the whole season. but i can tell you, minni is a winger not a fullback.

10th point: peachey is much more valuable in attack. minni gets told where to run, and he does that well. the peach doesnt have somebody else barking orders at him, he does the talking and his own running. David peachy scores plenty of tries, but not as many as minn though minn doesnt have as many try asists as david peachey does.

11th point: sully is fast and agile, but he is not in a team that is owned by the media so you wouldnt get to see much of that.

maybe tomorrow you can tell me all about the wonderful world of commers and where they should be used, oh wise one?

 

[billbro]

You are to kind, you flatter me so (wise ones are so cool in 'Magician' by Raymond E. Fiest ) but isn't commas part of punctuation?

First point: so therefore saying because the forwards don't play well is not sufficient reason as to why Kimmorley does.

Second point: point conceded but just checking sice you talk of politics so much.

Third point: How does this effect recruitment then? It doesn't it only changes monetary management which I already think is slightly flawed with the Dragons.

Fourth point: I disagree, why place you better player in premier league if he is ready and the better player. Also I meant don't initiate a new contract with him as you seem to imply show be the case with many Dragon players.

Fifth point: I may have misinterpreted what you meant but yes Gower does take on the line much more but that is a very good thing and yet he still has a good kicking game.

Sixth point: Orford plays similarly but he is not a clone and all players would learn from others anyway.

Seventh point: I think Stacey Jones in form is very comparable to Kimmorley.

Eighth point: Yes Hornby is a very competent player, he covers many rolls and racks up a lot of points. Hodgson would probably be the best choice but Hornby was definitely competition.

Ninth point: Why isn't Mini a fullback? He is perfectly capable of the role and playmaking is not required from the position while helpful it can be left to others.

Tenth point: The position does not require a play maker there are very competent halves in the side and Mini actually has greater attacking potency because of his speed and agility.

Eleventh point: Do you think he has as much impact as Wing on the whole?

Im here to enlighten, I will do what I am able (though I doubt that is much)....no thanks is required

 

[nerd2die4]

on the eleventh point ( that is the only piont i can refute, otherwise we will be going around in circles) - I think wing does a great job as an impact player, but he impacts a team that really doesnt need him. the roosters would still win games without him, but the sharks on the other hand probably wont win games without sully. So I think he does have the same impact on the team as wing does at the roosters, even Gould who is the most biased person i know admits sully plays a very similar game to Wing.

 

[neonazi]

hey nerd, we obviously have differin views on players and what not, and it looks like we're gonna continue goin round and round in circles and not come to a compromise. so why dont we just call it a truce on the matters placed forward. lets look forward to the great footy we're gonna see over the next month!!!