Fraser was warned on Lebanese Muslims (2 Viewers)

[banco55]

Yeah, but the people who want to migrate into this country suffer from a lot of persecution and suffering in Africa, or in the middle east. The Copts (The Coptic Orthodoxians of Egypt) are an example. They're genuinely nice and peaceful people, except that many can't come into this country and yet the Government has decided to allow a bunch of fundementalist muslims - the kind who persecute christians, burn bibles and destroy churches - into this country. Its just plain idiocy and a mistake i'm quite sure the Austalian government has regretted.

I'd be the first to say we should have taken in more coptic christians from egypt and more Lebanese Christians and taken in as few as possible Sunni/Shiite Lebanese.

 

[Nousiainen]

I don't have a problem with Asians, nor with "wogs", nor with the bulk of Lebanese. But there are issues in the community that need addressing, not by sending them to Lebanon, but through proper dialogue with the community.

Okay, I agree with you here. There are definitely some issues that need addressing; not ignoring.

I think a good discussion would be something like "We need more criminal enforcers out there" which is something that has clearly not been done with success. Another one could be "What are their socio-economic conditions?" which I'd imagine to be relatively poor, because I'd imagine some crime happening from those who've been disadvantaged in some way. "What about education?" - it's clearly failed in handling this portion of society. "What can we do to fix it?", well racism will get us no where, ignoring these problems will get us no where, and the media will almost definitely never get us anywhere.

The Keating days was heaven?

No, if you read 5 more words on, it says "to where we're heading now", because I am sure he did not intentionally try and create an "Us" vs "You" philosophy. It ends up creating fear which is only going to separate us more, and make discussing the issues a lot more difficult.

What is multiculturalism? Define it for me and I'll tell you whether I support it or not, and if the latter case, what the exact problems with it are. I'd also appreciate it if you'd stop referring to me as a conservative.

Multiculturalism - the act of being multicultural.

No, just kidding. For me, multiculturalism is the presence of maintaining our different cultures/religions whilst all living in harmony, and are able to practice these simultaneously while also being Australian! In other words, people can maintain their culture as they choose, and yet still abide by our laws and values.

Hence multiculturalism opposes nothing about integration. They both work together in fact! In other words, different components all coming together to form one greater whole! That is multiculturalism! That's how it's been in Australia and Canada for so long, so I don’t know why we keep beating ourselves up about it.

Assimilation on the other hand means that all other cultural elements that are present in this country must be removed and taken over by the dominant culture. It has never worked anywhere in history, and wherever it has taken place, has resulted in great loss and pain.

Australian history has actually shown that we integrate brilliantly and are much better for it. Sure, nothing is 100% perfect, but hell, I think it's damn close! Why is it though all of a sudden we're now deciding that we've had it all completely wrong? What, because some minority of stupid assholes try and make their ethnicity an issue and act like thugs? (ie, "leb" gangs.). And then another group of stupid asshole have to retaliate (ie. drunken "Aussie" thugs). Sure, it's disgusting, but it's not the end of multicultural Australia!

I got sick last week – doesn’t mean I am going to die. It was a cold.

Including (I think it was) Pakistan up until recently, when they had a law that a charge of rape could not be brought against a man unless the woman who was raped had 4 male witnesses? That doesn't exactly seem compatible.

I definitely agree here that such a law is extremely pathetic and stupid.

But if the case here is with Pakistan and with some Muslims, then why would people want to flame multiculturalism as a whole, when it's just a cultural clash between multiculturalism and some Muslims? It's just one grape gone sour, not a bunch! Smack into shape the 0.1% of assholes who “won’t toe the line” – but don’t punish those groups who live their culture as they choose and thus are great Australians.

Our history of the last 50 years shows it works 99% of the time – that’s brilliant. Let’s fix the 1% - not destroy what works.

You've implied that an individual needs a family to validate themselves. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a conservative trait?

Family does not only imply husband/wife/children. Do you think caring for a brother or sister or mother or father is a conservative trait, for instance? Isn't that a universal trait, to care about what happens to people we actually care for? Unless if one has a fallout with them, I'm sure we'd still want the best of them. And I have no idea why you pin pointed that out when it was hardly even the point. I could have replaced that word family with friends, and it'll still mean the same thing. Political correctness gone mad it seems.

???
I've said we should address the issues, not deport the entire Muslim population.

Addressing the issues is one way we definitely should be trying to solve the problem. Inciting fear, racism, and watching Today Tonight every day will not make it achievable however. (I'm not implying you watch it or do those things but just stating what I think is obvious).

You just committed the same fallacy you accused others of using, being that of taking a handful of people and extrapolating to the rest of the refugee population.

No, there are people out there who will be of the impression that refugees are perhaps ungrateful and responsible for huge cases of crime which I'd disagree with. Having met quite a few and finding that all the ones I've met were so grateful to have escaped persecution to settle here, and then to have other bitter people try and attack them is something I take a little more seriously. There may be some ungrateful people, but that can be said for all criminals in the Western world.

What is multiculturalism?

Already defined it. But to ellaborate on the difference of integration with assimilation together with multiculturalismm integration (not assimilation) is what we should want and want multiculturalism ends up achieving anyway, and also addresses the issues of other people having their culture and abiding by "our laws" and "our values". For a majority of cases, there is no clash, because working hard, doing the best for yourself and your family (I put "yourself" in there especially for you), not breaking the law, and treating others well is not some unique Australian trait but are UNIVERSAL policies! My friend who has spent basically half of the last 15 years living, working and studying in other countries such as Germany, Indonesia, Hong Kong and Fiji (if you want to know) would agree here.

I understand that some individuals don't live up to some of these ideals, but that's individuals! Australians can be assholes in Australia too!

 

[Nousiainen]

Well you see my issue isn't with whether they vote or not, it's more the principle of whether it's okay to rape someone because they're white and not wearing a tent.

And to add to that I should make it really clear that I never mentioned genetics or race, just religion, culture and values. You have to look at all of those. In fact you seem to be the first person in this thread to imply culture is genetic, even if it's through projecting that onto me (by making up something I didn't say then refuting it).

The genetics-culture comparison was to highlight how silly it is to apply such broad terms to such a broad group of people. Where are the rapings of people not wearing a "tent" in Canada by those that do? Could it perhaps reflect different societies, different ways of handling certain people?

Example, in London there are two areas that tellingly make a point, both with some of the largest percentages of immigrants in the inner city. Hackney with a left wing council, notorious for corruption, has the highest crime. New Cross with a left wing council, famous for its transparency, has the second lowest crime in the capital. Both areas are heavily impoverished.

Its not about immigrants, not even that much about poverty - its about education, to an extent councils, and importantly, acceptance into a society itself.

 

[S1M0]

I'd be the first to say we should have taken in more coptic christians from egypt and more Lebanese Christians and taken in as few as possible Sunni/Shiite Lebanese.

Hear Hear!

 

[Jordan.J]

you thnk this is an isolated deranged group of individuals thought?

then your wrong (just look at the messages of support they get)

this is a growing and common mindset not seen previously in this country.

Messages of support? They were disabled, however the clip praising the riots had messages of support

 

[ur_inner_child]

Most of the videos that have been posted are either unreliable, inappropriate or unwise as a source.

I'm not going to tear them down because some of you have pointed out the flaw in these sources, but I will remind you that under forum rules, you must briefly explain the content of the video.

From here on, I will have zero tolerance of the sources some of you site. Honestly, take the sourcing skills your school gave you and apply them here.

 

[ihavenothing]

Their socio economic status is not poor, they can afford mobile phones, cars, housing and still manage to have like 20 kids so I don't know what you're getting at there. This macho culture need to be stopped and destroyed as crime will only increase if they are kept on being appeased, it is total rubbish their parents had came here and worked hard, yet chose to marry and have no control over their offspring and allow these males to become involved in criminal activity.

 

[Gurlpower]

Messages of support? They were disabled, however the clip praising the riots had messages of support

well when someones house gets blown up, then you give them a place to stay and they try and assault you in a regular basis, then you should stand up and support those that say f*** off.

The riots werent about a bunch of racists not liking lebanese, they were uprising against constant intimidation, bashings and assault from these people.

Some have had enough, and support is growing.

 

[Nousiainen]

Their socio economic status is not poor, they can afford mobile phones, cars, housing and still manage to have like 20 kids so I don't know what you're getting at there. This macho culture need to be stopped and destroyed as crime will only increase if they are kept on being appeased, it is total rubbish their parents had came here and worked hard, yet chose to marry and have no control over their offspring and allow these males to become involved in criminal activity.

Actually that's a good point. I guess some of their parents were not strong enough to enforce certain principles on their children. I also think it's something to do with the fact that they went to below-average schools. Not that the curriculum or teachers are to blame; but that they most likely were surrounded with a culture of machoness and of one of that was principely anti-school (with and from the other pupils).

I feel sorry for their parents also. The parents of some of these guys in gangs came here, worked hard only to have certain sons that misbehaved. Quite ironic in a sense, and a bit sad.

The cases aren't always bad however. I was sitting alone at Wentworth at USYD doing some work, waiting for a friend, and I overheard a convo by a group of Lebanese girls (maybe 6), and they all seemed to have their priorities straight. Ironically 5 minutes later, an evangelical came up to me and so I had to leave having done only 50% of the work.

 

[Nousiainen]

well when someones house gets blown up, then you give them a place to stay and they try and assault you in a regular basis, then you should stand up and support those that say f*** off.

"House gets blown up" - I think you're a little paranoid here.

The riots werent about a bunch of racists not liking lebanese, they were uprising against constant intimidation, bashings and assault from these people.

If that was the purpose, then there shouldn't have been the following:

1. Shirts with "Ethnic Cleansing Unit" on them. (A hint that racism was definitely intentionally going to be involved in the riot).
2. People of Anglo-appearance chasing other people of Middle Eastern appearance (and there were reports of a Jewish man and a Greek girl being hurt)
3. Chanting ""Wog Free Zone" and so on screams to me of racism. And other such chants.

They also damaged the reputation of Australia overseas, and made us look like racist yobbos on a grand scale. Nothing to be proud of. If you're angry, do it rationally. My cousin in Finland asked about it and it was so embarrassing even telling him about it.

God, I'm sick of people supporting Cronulla. How fucking uneducated and stupid does one have to be?

 

[ihavenothing]

The people of the Shire who aren't racist and make up the majority feel ashamed and when they mention they are from there in convos there is silence. A lot of Muslim girls I believe are extremely intelligent and I see a lot at the unis and have no probs with them except when they have to marry and whether they will have to throw away their education to be a mother to a guy who may be violent and not chosen by her.

 

[S1M0]

well when someones house gets blown up, then you give them a place to stay and they try and assault you in a regular basis, then you should stand up and support those that say f*** off.

The riots werent about a bunch of racists not liking lebanese, they were uprising against constant intimidation, bashings and assault from these people.

Some have had enough, and support is growing.

Very true..but then explain the following on the riots:

1. The "white" versions of the Australian flag
2. T-shirts imprinted "Ethnic Clensing Unit"
3. The fact that all "wogs" were targeted as well

and not to mention what Nousiainen has said regarding the riots as well

If that was the purpose, then there shouldn't have been the following:

1. Shirts with "Ethnic Cleansing Unit" on them. (A hint that racism was definitely intentionally going to be involved in the riot).
2. People of Anglo-appearance chasing other people of Middle Eastern appearance (and there were reports of a Jewish man and a Greek girl being hurt)
3. Chanting ""Wog Free Zone" and so on screams to me of racism. And other such chants.

They also damaged the reputation of Australia overseas, and made us look like racist yobbos on a grand scale. Nothing to be proud of. If you're angry, do it rationally. My cousin in Finland asked about it and it was so embarrassing even telling him about it.

 

[Aryanbeauty]

They also damaged the reputation of Australia overseas, and made us look like racist yobbos on a grand scale. Nothing to be proud of. If you're angry, do it rationally. My cousin in Finland asked about it and it was so embarrassing even telling him about it.

It is better to show your true colours than hiding behind political correctness, living your lives on lies and worrying about what other countries or your cousin think. Tell your cousin rationally how lebanese thugs raped australian girls and intimidated and assaulted other beachgoers and livesavers, also tell how australian racist thugs fought back. There is nothing to be ashamed of.

God, I'm sick of people supporting Cronulla. How fucking uneducated and stupid does one have to be?

God I am sick of lebs thugs committing crimes and their religious leaders glorifying rape and terrorism. How stupid does one have to be?:rofl:

 

[Nousiainen]

It is better to show your true colours than hiding behind political correctness, living your lives on lies and worrying about what other countries or your cousin think.Tell your cousin rationally how lebanese thugs raped australian girls and intimidated and assaulted other beachgoers and livesavers, also tell how australian racist thugs fought back.

Who the hell said I was hiding behind political correctness? Is your definition of not living up to political correctness chasing people that look like Middle Easterners on the street (which include groups such as most Muslims, Mediteraneans, and even Jews!). I actually understand that there are a select portion of thugs in the Lebanese community that do commit crime, but to fight back in an openly racist, disgusting and practically fascist way would only bring these people on PAR with the Lebanese thugs. If they wanted to "fight back", then "ethnic cleansing unit", "Wog free zone", and the fact they chased ANY ONE of this supposed Middle Eastern appearance would quash the "fight back" statement which gives off an impression that they did the right thing. Were the Lebanese retaliatory attacks after Cronulla considered "fighting back" then also??

Also, the fact that shirts even SAID "Ethnic Cleansing Unit" would give me the impression that it was NOT only against Lebanese thugs but against any non-Anglo ethnicity in this country! THAT is what I find extremely concerning and most especially embarrassing!

For the record, I told my cousin "One group of stupid people did a stupid thing, another group of even stupider people put themselves on par with these stupid people and did stupid things - let's leave it at that. How's Winter?"

There is nothing to be ashamed of.

Yeah, nothing to be ashamed of a PUBLIC GATHERING of racists chanting words like "Ethnic Cleansing Unit" and chasing anyone of Middle Eastern appearance. Jee, it makes me so proud to be Australian! I am so proud when other people in other countries mention such an event to me also! I boast about what happened since of course, I am proud such a racist facsistic action occured in Australia! *waves the Aussie flag!* SONS OF DA ANZACS UNITE WITH UR AUSSIE VALUES 4EV4!!!1 WE GREW HERE YOU FLEW HERE LOLLLLL!111111111 DA LUCKY COUNTRY IS SO LUCKY!111111!!!!!11

I will assume you're Jewish because you have an Israeli flag in your avatar and signature (the fact that they are there means that you are most likely a product of multiculturalism and contribute to it). So given this assumption, I don't see how you could even remotely have hinted that such a day is nothing to be ashamed of, as when they were attacking anyone that looked Middle Eastern, also went after a Greek girl as well as a JEWISH person! I know there are some Jews that do not look Middle Eastern, but I know there are also a sizeable portion that do, so if you had been there, I don't think you'd find it very safe.

Also, given that the riots were ALSO largely driven by white supremacist beliefs, white supremacists basically are anti-Jewish also, so it's so wise of you to claim that such actions were of them fighting back!

God I am sick of lebs thugs committing crimes and their religious leaders glorifying rape and terrorism. How stupid does one have to be?:rofl:

And no person has supported the stupid thugs committing crimes in this thread, so it is a very mute point! For the record, I am JUST as bloody pissed at this sizeable portion that seem to not give themselves a good reputation at all, but supporting Cronulla was just wrong! It was irrational, and if these yobbos really had gotten their way, ethnic cleansing would be a public policy which would include both me and you. You can oppose the actions of these stupid asshole thugs, but supporting Cronulla means you support absolute stupidity (and are most likely extremely stupid anyway), white supremacy, racism (no, it's not a politically correct term in this case!), and facsism! Infact, perhaps it is only yobbos that supported such a white supremacist gathering, so to support it, for me personally automatically indicates that you are most likely a yobbo who lives and breathes Today Tonight and would like to scream to Chinese or Greek Grandma's telling them to "speak fucken inglish were in ostraya ya here that".

It was a day I honestly clearly was ashamed to be Australian. The fact that so many dickheads in this country supported it actually borders on shameful, if it weren't for the other more intelligent half of society that have opposed it. So sorry for not being "politically incorrect" enough for you to "support people bashing people because of their ethnicity". Actually, go ahead and call Martin Luther King politically correct because he opposed racism, and call Gough Whitlam politically correct for creating SBS to help assist immigrants.

Hm, no, I still stand by my points in this post as well as a previous article's prime point. The majority of anti-PC conservatism is a front for racism. And the majority of Cronulla supporters are ignorant and very, exclusively, practically pathetically stupid.

 

[withoutaface]

The article made reference to one group of people, most of whom I know well enough to know that they aren't actually anti-semitic and support Israel's existence absolutely.

 

[ihavenothing]

If for instance, there was something like the Lozells riots in the UK (Black vs Pakistani) it would be the end of multiculturalism and people would finally know it isnt working if two minority groups clashed.

 

[katie_tully]

God bless Labor. Once a bunch of pussies, always a bunch of pussies.

 

[ihavenothing]

God bless Labor. Once a bunch of pussies, always a bunch of pussies.

Fraser was a Liberal if you can't remember

 

[S1M0]

Cronulla riots more like freedom Demonstrations

explain please.

 

[katie_tully]

Fraser was a Liberal if you can't remember

I wasn't referring to Fraser. Fraser was a monkey, I'd like to forget about his little stint behind the shiney desk.