Good schools in Western Suburbs (2 Viewers)

[Paradoxica]

imo its kind of like a self-fulfilling prophecy
1. Good teachers and bad teachers are everywhere, but in a class where everyone is at a bare minimum borderline b4/b5, the teacher spends a lot more time focusing on helping high achievers perform (everyone) than in a class where they need to pull up the bottom (and by necessity pay more attention to them). The pace of the class, and the depth of the teaching generally reflects the class ability, and this can hold back gifted students in some situations. When teachers don't need to spend very much time teaching or explaining the content because most kids get it right away more time is spent teaching technique, strategy and the Band 5-6 discriminator questions.
2. I think you'd be surprised how much parent pressure can motivate someone to perform. There's a fine line however when it becomes too much of course but yeah. When your family sets high expectations of you, you naturally tend to set high expectations of yourself. Then you either perform or burn out lol.
3. I don't think money plays that big a role tbh, like as long as you are in an environment where you can comfortably afford to live (I'm thinking like 50-60k/year level). That being said, families with a lot of money tend to have bigger expectations of their children. Plenty of schools in the top 30 aren't filled with particularly rich kids.
4. Here is I think the crux of the issue. In an environment where everyone is talented, competitive and motivated basically everyone else is motivated by osmosis. I attend a top-10 school, and basically everyone is serious about their studies. Everyone intends to go to university, and everyone expects an ATAR of 90+. You don't need to be very self-motivated to work sitting in a classroom where 95+% of people are legitimately working, compared to a school where maybe half the class cares.

The osmosis part doesn't apply to me because of my neurological differences. (Also, wouldn't it technically be diffusion? )

 

[eyeseeyou]

Why are rankings such a big thing in Sydney? Can a group cohort in a school ranked 101-200 be as good or better than a cohort say ranked 20-50? My thinking is if there is 582 High schools (according to Better Education website) in NSW the child who has more motivation do just as well will do well anywhere. I will admit 4 factors go into getting a student a high ATAR/good rank: 1) good teachers in that school/tutoring/mentors- I've heard students often complain about teachers not knowing their stuff or not showing enough dedication 2) parent environment -I've done tutoring for a family before, where all I heard was constant shouting from their mother. In that environment its impossible to do well. 3) Socio-economic status- money (hate to say that. But having money does allow a student to buy books, extra resources, access to best tutors in the state, better student learning experience, holidays, richer and elite network) and 4) Student motivation- you can have as much money but if you don't have the hard work, direction, study technique and commitment it's hard to do well at academic study. Think if you got 3 of those 4 ticked off, your on the way to doing well in study, no matter what school your ranked.

I got teased a bit back in my state because I went to a low tier school in my state. (one that wasn't even listed on the rankings). These kids also have to overcome that 'inferiority complex' about their 'inferior school' in society, university and daily life. They have to be a 110% better person, than the kid in a top tier school to fit in with society and university.

At the end of the day some you win some you don't. You can study hard all you want but at times you don't do as good as you want however as long as you try, that's what's going to make you succeed in life. I think everyone will be proud of you to the very end as long as you try

 

[Nailgun]

The osmosis part doesn't apply to me because of my neurological differences. (Also, wouldn't it technically be diffusion? )

idk what the difference is, bio sucks
well, i think you would be the exception rather than the rule lol

 

[BandSixFix]

Firstly, having bad teachers doesn't mean that you're going to do bad whether it's in school or at a tutoring centre. Firstly it is up to the student to do well not the educator. If the student fails in an exam, who's fault is it? People who have had bad teachers and haven't taken any tutoring have become high achievers themselves. How? They took it up to themselves and learn it by themselves

Secondly I am having trouble understanding your second point that "all I heard was constant shouting from their mother". The way you phrased it seems confusing, what do you mean?

Thirdly, money doesn't necessarily restrict a student from having a "good" education. Ever heard of a library?

Lastly, you are indeed correct. Like I said it is up to the student themselves to do well. Ever student has a different style of learning and some things may work for students others not but if they work hard and try then that's a completely different tangent-they can do well no matter which school they go to

Firstly, teachers play a larger role than you think- although to an extent students play a role in their education, teachers also play a significant contribution. For example, at my school (Top 70~) for the past 3 years, 90% of Band 6 economics students have come from one teachers class specifically, where as the other teacher only produced 1-2. What's the variable in that scenario? The teacher.

Secondly, he is referring to having a toxic home environment. Having constant arguments and shouting effects an individuals capability to study. "all I heard was constant shouting from their mother" - a condescending environment will ultimately hinder a students capacity to learn at home.

Thirdly, money is a very critical factor in having a 'good' education. Library? Does that come with free tutors? Does it come with finger tip access to high performing books and resources? Of course it does alleviate certain negatives. However, it does not negate the influence of money.

 

[Paradoxica]

idk what the difference is, bio sucks
well, i think you would be the exception rather than the rule lol

There are no rules, only generalisations. To be fair though, the sample size for neurotypicals is very large, compared to the minorities.

However, that does not mean you can impose neurotypical standards onto someone who is capable as barely passing off as neurotypical, but actually isn't.

 

[mcchicken]

Cabra high

Liverpool boys high

Hurstone

um

OP mentioned good schools.

 

[Nailgun]

um

So much burn in this thread lol

 

[Focus is Key]

imo its kind of like a self-fulfilling prophecy
1. Good teachers and bad teachers are everywhere, but in a class where everyone is at a bare minimum borderline b4/b5, the teacher spends a lot more time focusing on helping high achievers perform (everyone) than in a class where they need to pull up the bottom (and by necessity pay more attention to them). The pace of the class, and the depth of the teaching generally reflects the class ability, and this can hold back gifted students in some situations. When teachers don't need to spend very much time teaching or explaining the content because most kids get it right away more time is spent teaching technique, strategy and the Band 5-6 discriminator questions.
2. I think you'd be surprised how much parent pressure can motivate someone to perform. There's a fine line however when it becomes too much of course but yeah. When your family sets high expectations of you, you naturally tend to set high expectations of yourself. Then you either perform or burn out lol.
3. I don't think money plays that big a role tbh, like as long as you are in an environment where you can comfortably afford to live (I'm thinking like 50-60k/year level). That being said, families with a lot of money tend to have bigger expectations of their children. Plenty of schools in the top 30 aren't filled with particularly rich kids.
4. Here is I think the crux of the issue. In an environment where everyone is talented, competitive and motivated basically everyone else is motivated by osmosis. I attend a top-10 school, and basically everyone is serious about their studies. Everyone intends to go to university, and everyone expects an ATAR of 90+. You don't need to be very self-motivated to work sitting in a classroom where 95+% of people are legitimately working, compared to a school where maybe half the class cares.

This is probably one of the truest things I've ever read on this site, especially considering my experience at a school that half the time doesn't even rank inside the top 500. Basically all bar one (maybe two) of my teachers focused on teaching the content at the most basic level, without giving that exam technique or attention to detail that the high achieving students in the class needed. I got an ATAR above 90 as dux and got mid-high Band 5s as well as one very high Band 6 for my HSC. And guess what? The high Band 6 subject was largely because of my teacher focusing on the top-end of students rather than the bottom end. We covered everything in extensive detail and did lots of exam preparation, which we didn't do very well in other classes. So it annoys me when people say these things don't have an impact and that everyone is equal when in actuality that is complete rubbish. In fact I'm currently beating people in law school who achieved 97 and 98 ATARs who went to privileged schools.

 

[InsoulvencyReaper]

Cabra high

Liverpool boys high

Hurstone

I wouldn't recommend Liverpool Boys - they're close to last (if not last) in school rankings.

 

[mcchicken]

the statements above IR (well, and IR ) are so true

my school was 500+ and in most classes I was just so bored because most teachers would just teach the bare bones of the syllabus - never going into detail, never doing much exam technique stuff because half the students had a hard enough time grasping the content let alone how to properly apply that knowledge into detailed responses.

I know a lot of people would say "well the onus is on you to go above and beyond to study and teach yourself blah blah" and yes to a degree that is true and I sure could've done a better job of that and gotten better marks but a) I was never aiming high anyways b) I exceeded my expectations anyways so idc and most importantly, c) even though I could have done more for myself, that doesn't change the fact that I was still at a disadvantage by not being surrounded my peers to push me (there were a few but not many, and not all the high achievers were in my classes) and not having many dedicated teachers who cared less about getting kids to pass and more about getting kids to aim for B5/6.

In fact, the few teachers that really did care about helping students reach their full potential and not just passing were huge inspirations to me and are basically why teaching is a huge passion of mine.

I realise that this POV may sound rude because some students' full potential may be passing marks but I feel this is untrue for the majority of BoS users of whom I am addressing currently sooo... whatever.

 

[Nailgun]

Yeah, tbh its pretty clear at my school when a new teacher is used to teaching at a not-so-great school. Most teachers pick up on the difference though and quickly adapt to teaching in that kind of environment. The ones that don't though.......

 

[mrstripedshades]

TBH Penrith is really easy to get into. I got in and didnt study at all for selective like not even a past paper and Im no amazing student, it may be more difficult now tho

 

[Trebla]

That's because they've got a partially selective stream and you'll be required to get a high mark to get in. Sefton high is the best partially selective school in NSW (in the HSC) no doubt about that. See it for yourself if you don't believe me

The only thing carrying Sefton in HSC ranks is its performance in Maths which is up there with many of the fully selective schools. For the rest of the subjects areas, (except maybe History) it's not that great compared to your upper end comprehensive schools.

 

[eyeseeyou]

The only thing carrying Sefton in HSC ranks is its performance in Maths which is up there with many of the fully selective schools. For the rest of the subjects areas, (except maybe History) it's not that great compared to your upper end comprehensive schools.

A lot of schools rely on maths to boost their overall school ranks. For Sefton I don't think it's necessarily their maths but their other subjects like science (phys,chem,bio) and english (I heard their english faculty is rough on marking and a lot of their english work is hard). For subjects like the humanities/social sciences and industrial arts I don't think they are doing that well in those areas because they're not that "mainstream" in those areas

 

[eyeseeyou]

TBH Penrith is really easy to get into. I got in and didnt study at all for selective like not even a past paper and Im no amazing student, it may be more difficult now tho

Lol wtf. People get tutored for the selective test in year 5/6 and they still can't get in selective

 

[Trebla]

A lot of schools rely on maths to boost their overall school ranks. For Sefton I don't think it's necessarily their maths but their other subjects like science (phys,chem,bio) and english (I heard their english faculty is rough on marking and a lot of their english work is hard). For subjects like the humanities/social sciences and industrial arts I don't think they are doing that well in those areas because they're not that "mainstream" in those areas

If you look at the Distinguished Achievers data, Sefton's key strength has always been in Maths which is where the bulk of the band 6/E4s come from (usually 30-40 for Mathematics, 30-40 for Mathematics Extension 1 and 10-15 for Mathematics Extension 2). On Maths alone, Sefton typically ranks well into the top 30 schools in the state amongst the fully selective schools.

However, its overall rank has historically been in the 50s because every other area is nowhere near as strong. Interestingly, Sefton's performance in English has improved over the years to more 'selective tier' levels since my HSC (there was a time Sefton typically got less than five band 6s for English (Advanced) but these days it is typically around 20+) but that looks like it has been almost completely offset by a decline in performance within the social sciences (i.e. Economics, Business Studies, Legal Studies).

Sefton's performance in the Science subjects has typically not been that great. The fact that you typically have to be within in the top 10 of a large cohort (and sometimes top 5) to have some fighting chance at a band 6 in Chemistry/Physics/Biology resembles more of a highly ranked comprehensive school rather than a selective school.

 

[Nailgun]

Lol wtf. People get tutored for the selective test in year 5/6 and they still can't get in selective

people get tutored for selective? o.o

howw? how do you even prepare for it lol
isnt the point that you cant prepare for it

 

[davidgoes4wce]

people get tutored for selective? o.o

howw? how do you even prepare for it lol
isnt the point that you cant prepare for it

I tutored selective students about five in 2014, I reckon the motivation is down to the student as well. I purchased some selective materials from specific tutoring clinics and bookstores (you would be actually surprised at how much resources there are available out there) and go through them with students that I taught. Practicing General Ability,Maths, Comprehension and writing again and again goes a long way in getting the student up to the standards they require. The students that I tutored , 4 of them seem motivated and 1 of them seemed unmotivated.

I think for me is with my tutoring, I find it slightly difficult to get the 'unmotivated' students to fire. I teach better when I have the 'keen' students asking me challenging questions as it keeps me on my toes.

 

[Trebla]

people get tutored for selective? o.o

howw? how do you even prepare for it lol
isnt the point that you cant prepare for it

You can prepare for it by doing lots of practice as well as understanding the structure of the test and being familiar with the nature of the questions.

 

[Nailgun]

You can prepare for it by doing lots of practice as well as understanding the structure of the test and being familiar with the nature of the questions.

..sounds like a waste of time and money tbh lol