IB over HSC??? (1 Viewer)

[theflash_]

so i know that everyone here must be students who have studied or who are studying the hsc course, but is it better to do the IB Diploma Programme instead? Does it put you in a better position to get into your desired university? Are you better off just doing the HSC course?

 

[Silly Sausage]

For many people it's easier to obtain the IB score required than getting the ATAR equivalent. That's it iirc.

 

[nerdasdasd]

so i know that everyone here must be students who have studied or who are studying the hsc course, but is it better to do the IB Diploma Programme instead? Does it put you in a better position to get into your desired university? Are you better off just doing the HSC course?

It makes no difference but an IB score can be used overseas to apply for global unis.

 

[Silky_Smooth]

IB is only useful if you're planning to study overseas, as has already been mentioned above

 

[Drongoski]

I assume you are in one of those girl schools offering the IB Diploma Programme, like The MLC, Mont St Angelo, Queenswood School for Girls, Redlands etc. I am of the view that the IB programme is a much more rigorous and demanding one - superior to our HSC. You cannot just choose Mickey Mouse subjects that you find easier or more manageable. You have to do a Maths, a Science, a language etc.

 

[Soulful]

IB is only useful if you're planning to study overseas, as has already been mentioned above

While IB is probably more recognisable, HSC is a pretty well regarded qualification overseas and is accepted in the US/UK.

 

[InteGrand]

While IB is probably more recognisable, HSC is a pretty well regarded qualification overseas and is accepted in the US/UK.

Why is the HSC well-regarded?

 

[4025808]

If I had the chance, I'd definitely pick the IB over the HSC. Yes it will be harder than HSC but if you're planning to go onto university education doing a technical field, then all the first year subjects will highly overlap with the IB content that you have learned. Not only to mention that you will also have a better foundation of statistics and computing (if you pick those subjects for IB), as well as linear algebra (HSC is 90% calculus FYI).

Also as Drongoski said, you have to pick a Maths stream, a Science stream, a Humanities stream, a language, Theory of Knowledge, etc. It gives you a more well rounded education. In terms of the physics and chemistry content, you will actually be learning proper science content and problem solving. HSC sciences in comparison is more like regurgitating dotpoints of content and how this invention has helped society, etc.

 

[Soulful]

Why is the HSC well-regarded?

Not really sure tbh HAHAHA But here is an article from the guardian which actually praises the HSC over the A-Levels

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2009/nov/17/a-levels-degrees-narrow-education-broaden

I also think that, other than IB, HSC is one of the broadest qualifications out there (as mentioned in the article). My friend in the UK did Maths, Further Maths, and Physics for his A Levels (you only need 3 subjects and different levels of maths count as different subjects AND English isn't compulsory). Maybe the subjects themselves are structured better and are more demanding, but when put together, HSC might be a bit harder (going off the A-Level System, I would have been doing 7 different subjects at one point).

Of course IB is still superior lol

 

[RecklessRick]

You cannot just choose Mickey Mouse subjects that you find easier or more manageable. You have to do a Maths, a Science, a language etc.

You can do Maths Studies for maths, ESS or sports science for science and standard level beginners Spanish for a language. There's Mickey Mouse subjects in the IB as well.

Why is the HSC well-regarded?

The level of rigour in the HSC curriculum (as with all modern Australian senior curricula) meets the standards required by overseas unis such as Oxford, Cambridge, or Harvard. If you're applying to the US you'll still have to do SATs regardless of whether you do IB.

From what I've seen, HSC isn't really too different from IB aside than the extra stuff you have to do for CAS, ToK and EE. If anything, subjects like History Extension or English Extension can be more challenging than their IB counterparts (or lack thereof). Additionally, the EE isn't exactly the hardest thing in the world and is roughly equivalent to an HSC major work. If you're a bit of an all rounder but you're not up there gunning for state ranks, the IB might be in your ATAR's favour. That's because being literally first in the world in History wouldn't do you any better than someone who scrapes just a 7. The aligning at the top end is also relatively generous. There are a couple of things to watch out for though: that you can easily fall devastatingly close to a grade boundary which would pull your atar down significantly, and that the IB is far more exam based even than the HSC, meaning if you have a bad few weeks in the exam hall you're pretty screwed.

If you go to MLC or another high performing IB school I'd say go for it given how well those schools seem to game the IB. If you're a very good humanities or sciences student, you could do either HSC or IB, but it may be in your favour to do HSC and stack sciencey/humanities subjects. If you're generally alright at most subjects I'd say do the IB for the ATAR aligning.

 

[p0llex]

Yes it will be harder than HSC

I went to a school which offered both the HSC and IB and it was clear to everybody that the workload for the IB was significantly less. When we were in year 11 they only did a single piece of assessment, and so by the end of our first term of year 12 we had already done more stuff which counted than them. We both had half-yearlies at the same time, but for the IB kids it didn't count and so they didn't have to take it seriously. In term 2 of year 12 we had HSC assessment almost every week while there was almost nothing for the IB. Again with trials it didn't count for them. It's possible that different schools structure their assessments in different ways, but for us the internal IB assessment was generally just a single assignment for each subject which they had months to work on and could hand in countless drafts for.

For many people it's easier to obtain the IB score required than getting the ATAR equivalent. That's it iirc.

Especially if you are a top student, it's much much easier to get 45 (which converts to 99.95) in the IB than to get 99.95 in the HSC.

If you go to MLC or another high performing IB school I'd say go for it given how well those schools seem to game the IB. If you're a very good humanities or sciences student, you could do either HSC or IB, but it may be in your favour to do HSC and stack sciencey/humanities subjects. If you're generally alright at most subjects I'd say do the IB for the ATAR aligning.

This is the best advice - as long as the subjects you want to do fit within the IB then go for it. The differences between the syllabuses are mostly insignificant, but the IB will likely give you a less stressful year 12 and a better ATAR at the end.

 

[omegadot]

If you are interested in studying real physics and chemistry I would recommend doing IB over HSC. What is currently presented as physics and chemistry at HSC-level is not physics or chemistry at all but some sort of watered down drivel almost devoid of any real science. Of course, by choosing to do IB you will miss the opportunity to take the 3 and 4 Unit Mathematics courses which are two wonderful courses, though the IB mathematics offerings are quite good to. And of course you will have to attend a school which currently offers IB which means either attending one of the expensive private schools in NSW or an international school aboard.

 

[InteGrand]

If you are interested in studying real physics and chemistry I would recommend doing IB over HSC. What is currently presented as physics and chemistry at HSC-level is not physics or chemistry at all but some sort of watered down drivel almost devoid of any real science. Of course, by choosing to do IB you will miss the opportunity to take the 3 and 4 Unit Mathematics courses which are two wonderful courses, though the IB mathematics offerings are quite good to. And of course you will have to attend a school which currently offers IB which means either attending one of the expensive private schools in NSW or an international school aboard.

This is why I was quite surprised that the HSC is well-regarded – at least for sciences, it shouldn't be, since the HSC Science subjects have been essentially reduced to memorisation contests and contain more history and social science in them than actual science (although the syllabi for HSC sciences were much better in the old HSC, i.e. before 2001, when they contained actual science). Even the HSC 3U/4U maths courses have been watered down significantly compared to previous decades, although clearly not to the extent of the HSC Sciences.

 

[Silky_Smooth]

I went to a school which offered both the HSC and IB and it was clear to everybody that the workload for the IB was significantly less. When we were in year 11 they only did a single piece of assessment, and so by the end of our first term of year 12 we had already done more stuff which counted than them. We both had half-yearlies at the same time, but for the IB kids it didn't count and so they didn't have to take it seriously. In term 2 of year 12 we had HSC assessment almost every week while there was almost nothing for the IB. Again with trials it didn't count for them. It's possible that different schools structure their assessments in different ways, but for us the internal IB assessment was generally just a single assignment for each subject which they had months to work on and could hand in countless drafts for.

I don't know which school you attended but, at mine the general consensus is that IB is a much more difficult course.

You say that it seemed as if the IB students were doing much less work than those completing the HSC. This may be the case because the HSC mark is a 50:50 combination of a student's examination mark and school based assessment mark for each course, wheres the IB is weighted with a much greater focus on end of year exams at 70-80%. Due to the fact that the exams are weighted so highly in IB it is much easier to fail the course. This is the major reason that the students at your school may not have had as many internal assessments as the HSC, because the school is placing a bigger focus on preparing the students for end of year exams.

In addition to this I have also heard that the content covered in IB courses is superior to that of the HSC, which only adds to the difficulty of the course. Sure the workload may be slightly less than that of the HSC but I can assure you that it is much easier to perform well in the HSC than in IB.

 

[Soulful]

I don't know which school you attended but, at mine the general consensus is that IB is a much more difficult course.

You say that it seemed as if the IB students were doing much less work than those completing the HSC. This may be the case because the HSC mark is a 50:50 combination of a student's examination mark and school based assessment mark for each course, wheres the IB is weighted with a much greater focus on end of year exams at 70%. Due to the fact that the exams are weighted so highly in IB it is much easier to fail the course. This is the major reason that the students at your school may not have had as many internal assessments as the HSC, because the school is placing a bigger focus on preparing the students for end of year exams.

In addition to this I have also heard that the content covered in IB courses is superior to that of the HSC, which only adds to the difficulty of the course. Sure the workload may be slightly less than that of the HSC but I can assure you that it is much easier to perform well in the HSC than in IB.

not necessarily considering that your ATAR is a rank while you get a mark for IB. Every year, there can only be a certain amount of people with each ATAR for the HSC, making it much harder to get a good score. That said, people who get 99.95 in the HSC might not get 45 for IB, and vice versa. Both are huge achievements.

 

[Silky_Smooth]

not necessarily considering that your ATAR is a rank while you get a mark for IB. Every year, there can only be a certain amount of people with each ATAR for the HSC, making it much harder to get a good score. That said, people who get 99.95 in the HSC might not get 45 for IB, and vice versa. Both are huge achievements.

You still get a UAC rank (which is basically an ATAR) for IB as well as your IB score.

With regards to your second statement, I still stand by my thinking that IB is harder because if you mess up the final exam then you're SCREWED no matter how well you performed internally

 

[4025808]

FYI Victoria and South Australia have IB schools that are also government schools, which is a good thing to see.

I hope one day in New South Wales there will be IB government schools on offer.

 

[leehuan]

Keep in mind that the IB has an advantage of being recognised, obviously, internationally. And that if you still want to apply to uni, there is a common scale for IB students as to the ATAR.

FYI Victoria and South Australia have IB schools that are also government schools, which is a good thing to see.

I hope one day in New South Wales there will be IB government schools on offer.

Trinity Grammar?

 

[RecklessRick]

You still get a UAC rank (which is basically an ATAR) for IB as well as your IB score.

This is correct, but the point is that technically every student who does the IB in a single year could get 45 since the score is not a rank. Since this calculates to a UAC rank of 99.95, this essentially means that there's no limit to the number of IB students who get 99.95. In 2014 for example, 0.31% of IB candidates received 45 as opposed to 0.1% of HSC candidates. You could argue that this is fair because the IB candidature is higher quality than the NSW candidature, however an interesting case study here is MLC School. For the past few years MLC has received 5 45s per year, up there with results from schools such as Sydney Grammar or James Ruse in the HSC. Now as much as MLC is a fine school and I respect the quality of many of its candidates, MLC has never been, and continues not to be, the quality of selectives like Grammar or Ruse. There are two potential reasons for this to happen. The first is simply to suggest that the IB is easier to get 45 in, since all you have to do is simply be *good enough* at every subject rather than up there with the best. The second, assuming the IB and the HSC are equal in difficulty, is that all those who fall between the 99.85 and the 99.95 percentiles in the HSC would ALL get 99.95 in the IB simply because those other percentiles don't exist in the IB. I'm inclined to think it's a little bit of both.

With regards to your second statement, I still stand by my thinking that IB is harder because if you mess up the final exam then you're SCREWED no matter how well you performed internally

This isn't a measure of difficulty, this just opens up scores to greater variation.

Trinity Grammar?

Trinity Grammar is very much a private school?

I personally don't think there's really any need to offer the IB at government schools in NSW. It dilutes the competitive pool and distracts resources.

In addition to this I have also heard that the content covered in IB courses is superior to that of the HSC

Some HSC courses are 'harder' than IB, sometimes it swings the other way.

 

[Silky_Smooth]

This isn't a measure of difficulty, this just opens up scores to greater variation.

How is it not a measure of difficulty if scores are all over the place? One exam alone determines the bulk of your final mark, therefore capable students that could have performed relatively well in the HSC may be subject to a fail mark in the IB.