If You're a Christian, Muslim or Jew - You are Wrong (2 Viewers)

[veterandoggy]

that mircale is notihng more then an example of an allegory that many people wrote in those times.
People like you have come along way where alot of things can be proven with research and scientific experiments , however you still believe is crap called "miracles" which are nothing more then fictional stories or myths that hardly have truth in it.
the only miracle is that theres still idiots who believe in them

that isnt the largest monster to walk this earth, so why isnt it possible?

and who said that i dont recognise scientific research and experiments? i believe in miracles, and acknowledge science, except for evolution of course.

 

[SashatheMan]

that isnt the largest monster to walk this earth, so why isnt it possible?

and who said that i dont recognise scientific research and experiments? i believe in miracles, and acknowledge science, except for evolution of course.

first of all there was never a creature that had big enough eye socket to accompany 5 men as you say. Maybe a blue whales mouth.

You say you acknowledge scientific research , however as i said before you ignore parts of it , just becuase it doesnt go with your belief . This oversight undermines the credibility of many of your arguments.

Theres enough strong evidence to support evolution ,that throwing it away while believing every other scientific theory is ridiculious. yoiu cant pick and choose parts that go nicely with your beliefs and that dont fit in, you must prove the scientific theroy incorect. and what you have told me so far, doesnt do it.

 

[veterandoggy]

first of all there was never a creature that had big enough eye socket to accompany 5 men as you say. Maybe a blue whales mouth.

You say you acknowledge scientific research , however as i said before you ignore parts of it , just becuase it doesnt go with your belief . This oversight undermines the credibility of many of your arguments.

Theres enough strong evidence to support evolution ,that throwing it away while believing every other scientific theory is ridiculious. yoiu cant pick and choose parts that go nicely with your beliefs and that dont fit in, you must prove the scientific theroy incorect. and what you have told me so far, doesnt do it.

i cant be bothered reposting what we said about evolution and disproving it, but we have already given evidence of its disproval

 

[SashatheMan]

the creature is most probably a washed up blue whale, however the exagguration is obvious and i said it already allegory was common back then, its basicly making the story more interesting , so people would listen and remember it.

 

[veterandoggy]

the creature is most probably a washed up blue whale, however the exagguration is obvious and i said it already allegory was common back then, its basicly making the story more interesting , so people would listen and remember it.

allegory was common then, that is why scolars of islam use a technique to seperate the allegories from the true narrations of the prophet.

they checked the credibility of each narrator, from those who heard the prophet's sayings to those currently narrating it.
for example, "veterandoggy heard from sasha who heard from generator who heard from physician who heard from ntb that the prophet said ......" the scolars went over each narrator, and checked their credibility. if they found that veterandoggy is known to fabricate stuff and lie, then this hadith would be classed as weak. there is also something called a broken chain. this would be if you have never met generator, then it means that there is a narrator missing. this would also be weak.

we arent careless with these stuff. the above hadith i said was classes as sahih, as in all the narrators met each other, and they are all trustworthy and known to give true narrations.

 

[SashatheMan]

i was reading some stuff on another Forum i go to , and this guy structured his point of view in a muich better way then when i did it awhile ago. read through it and tell me what you think of it.

Prayer is pointless

let us assume the following things are true: a) God exists and b) God is perfect [thus implying that he always makes the best decision, no matter what].

EDIT Let us only think about non-worship prayer.

Third, let us set a scenario: There is a little girl sick with leukemia and her Christian parents and their friends from Church pray devoutly for her day in and day out for a week. They fast, keep vigil, read Bible verses, and ask God relentlessly to save the little girl's life. Three days later, the girl dies.

There is a question that must be raised: Why did the girl die, even after a week of prayer? The answer is a familiar one that Christians often give: it was not God's plan for her to live. We must remember that God is perfect, and because of this, he always makes the best decision--he never changes his plans written in that big Book of Life, no matter what, because he is perfect and he can never make a wrong decision. Therefore, there can never be a situation where God makes a mistake; he simply cannot change his infallible plans. So that is the first point: God has made his plans, and will can never change them.

Therefore, when a person prays, there are two possible scenarios: 1) the person prays for something that IS in God's plan, or 2) the person prays for something that IS NOT in God's plan. Shown above, one never knows which of the two one is praying for. We already know from the example of the little girl that praying for something that isn't in God's plan is worthless, because God will never change his plans. By logic, the first scenario--praying for something that IS in God's plan--is equally worthless: The prayer is already destined to come true, so what is the point in praying for it? If it's going to happen anyway, what's the point of praying for it.

You either pray and can't convince God to change his perfect plans or you pray and you're already getting what you're praying for. Either way, you won't be able to make any difference whatsoever, so the final argument is proven correct in my eyes: Prayer is pointless.

 

[withoutaface]

i cant be bothered reposting what we said about evolution and disproving it, but we have already given evidence of its disproval

You never disproved evolution. You said "hmm, this creation of life through science thing seems unlikely, I know, LET'S CREATE A SUPER ULTRA MEGA BEING TO FUDGE THE ANSWER FOR US LOL!"

100 years ago nothing could explain the photoelectric effect or the wave/particle duality of light, yet through good science those questions have been solved. The same will happen for evolution.

 

[veterandoggy]

i was reading some stuff on another Forum i go to , and this guy structured his point of view in a muich better way then when i did it awhile ago. read through it and tell me what you think of it.

he has given a sane argument, and here is my sane reply.

i will start with what muslims believe, since he is obviously using christians as an example. if a person dies sick, they will most probably enter heaven; from the day the child is born, the day they will die is also written down. and allah doesnt write what you will do because he wants you to, he writes it all down, because since he made you he knows exactly what you will do. it doesnt matter if you were sleeping or clubbing, when the time of your departure comes it will neither be delayed a second nor will it come a second earlier. and the prophet once said, or with this meaning, " nothing you will feel in pain, even a thorn prick, but it will remove from your sins" so the pain experienced from this sick person will have lead to the erasure of alot of her sins.

in regards to this, i may say that these people were asking for her to be healed. had she have been healed it would have only meant that she would have died healthy. and this death would also serve as a test of patience for her close relatives.

5 minutes a day, 5 times a day doesnt kill you. so if youre an aetheist who is thinking of prayer as useless waste of time, it really isnt, since you can finish it in the span of a commercial.

 

[veterandoggy]

You never disproved evolution. You said "hmm, this creation of life through science thing seems unlikely, I know, LET'S CREATE A SUPER ULTRA MEGA BEING TO FUDGE THE ANSWER FOR US LOL!"

100 years ago nothing could explain the photoelectric effect or the wave/particle duality of light, yet through good science those questions have been solved. The same will happen for evolution.

over half the world will be waiting...

 

[withoutaface]

he has given a sane argument, and here is my sane reply.

i will start with what muslims believe, since he is obviously using christians as an example. if a person dies sick, they will most probably enter heaven; from the day the child is born, the day they will die is also written down. and allah doesnt write what you will do because he wants you to, he writes it all down, because since he made you he knows exactly what you will do. it doesnt matter if you were sleeping or clubbing, when the time of your departure comes it will neither be delayed a second nor will it come a second earlier. and the prophet once said, or with this meaning, " nothing you will feel in pain, even a thorn prick, but it will remove from your sins" so the pain experienced from this sick person will have lead to the erasure of alot of her sins.

in regards to this, i may say that these people were asking for her to be healed. had she have been healed it would have only meant that she would have died healthy. and this death would also serve as a test of patience for her close relatives.

5 minutes a day, 5 times a day doesnt kill you. so if youre an aetheist who is thinking of prayer as useless waste of time, it really isnt, since you can finish it in the span of a commercial.

If I bang my table every 5 seconds with a red texta for 25 mins a day it probably doesn't hurt me much, but it doesn't do anything for me either. That argument is a pointless one.

 

[withoutaface]

over half the world will be waiting...

Appeal to majority (ie fallacious argument).

 

[veterandoggy]

If I bang my table every 5 seconds with a red texta for 25 mins a day it probably doesn't hurt me much, but it doesn't do anything for me either. That argument is a pointless one.

you wouldnt get anything out of it, and in comparison to what the prophets companions got out of it, neither do we. when they were praying, they were so absorbed into it that some even used to have their body parts amputated while they were praying, since they didnt feel a thing. this isnt referring to barbarism, it is referring to when they had to have their body part amputated, due to excessive battle wounds or a disease.

 

[withoutaface]

you wouldnt get anything out of it, and in comparison to what the prophets companions got out of it, neither do we. when they were praying, they were so absorbed into it that some even used to have their body parts amputated while they were praying, since they didnt feel a thing. this isnt referring to barbarism, it is referring to when they had to have their body part amputated, due to excessive battle wounds or a disease.

Exactly. So why bother?

 

[SashatheMan]

over half the world will be waiting...

over half the world will be waiting for rival gods.

 

[veterandoggy]

Exactly. So why bother?

i said in comparison, and that is due to our weaker faith.

 

[veterandoggy]

over half the world will be waiting for rival gods.

yes, and the same people will be waiting for evolution to be proved.

 

[SashatheMan]

he has given a sane argument, and here is my sane reply.

i will start with what muslims believe, since he is obviously using christians as an example. if a person dies sick, they will most probably enter heaven; from the day the child is born, the day they will die is also written down. and allah doesnt write what you will do because he wants you to, he writes it all down, because since he made you he knows exactly what you will do. it doesnt matter if you were sleeping or clubbing, when the time of your departure comes it will neither be delayed a second nor will it come a second earlier. and the prophet once said, or with this meaning, " nothing you will feel in pain, even a thorn prick, but it will remove from your sins" so the pain experienced from this sick person will have lead to the erasure of alot of her sins.

in regards to this, i may say that these people were asking for her to be healed. had she have been healed it would have only meant that she would have died healthy. and this death would also serve as a test of patience for her close relatives.

how many sins can i 9 year old accumilate anyway that she deserves to go throw this? and why arent other people who die much older dont all experience more sins then her?

but if she healed then god intened it to be that way , if she didnt heal before she died then it was intended anyway. Still doesnt answer the reason to prey in such a situation.

5 minutes a day, 5 times a day doesnt kill you. so if youre an aetheist who is thinking of prayer as useless waste of time, it really isnt, since you can finish it in the span of a commercial.

that argement wasnt a matter of time that a prayer takes, but rather the uselessness it serves in situations like this, if you were to follow a religion (christianity in this matteer)

 

[withoutaface]

i said in comparison, and that is due to our weaker faith.

There are no steps in faith, you either believe or you don't. Unless of course you mean by actually seeing a supreme being, in which case it ceases to be faith.

 

[SashatheMan]

yes, and the same people will be waiting for evolution to be proved.

i was refering to mulsims, christians , and all other religions waiting for their own god, disproving other gods, but still waiting for their own.

 

[veterandoggy]

There are no steps in faith, you either believe or you don't. Unless of course you mean by actually seeing a supreme being, in which case it ceases to be faith.

there is how strong you believe.