Is a plot a Neccesity? (2 Viewers)

[flip_flop]

OK, i posted this in the short story section but i think that eveyrone can offer their opinion on this touchy subject.

SO, i was having a discussion with my EE2 teacher talking about problems i was having with my plot - namely that it was tacky, corny, and too teenage-angst like. Also, because i am writing an appropriation i didnt want to carbon copy what happened in the play that i was approaprating from.

He thought about this for a moment and asked - "Do you need a plot".

Those words kind of echoced in my mind! My immediate reaction was of course it does! But it got me thinking even more...

At this point, i should inform everyone that im writing about someone who is mentally ill, and im attempting to conceive the story entirely in the realm of her mind, using this to illustrate her degression into madness.

With that said, the abscence of a plot wouldnt have THAT much of a bearing on the events, since it exihibits that cause is suuplementary. The effect is in fact the crux of my major work, and hence the cause is peripheral.

in MY opinion... i think that i can only do without a plot IF and ONLY if the rest of my story is a work of pure literature gold lol... i need help guys = please offer anything!!

 

[Slidey]

Lack of a plot goes well with the concept of madness.

I played a computer role-playing game without a plot, once. It sucked. Story threads all over the place. Could have been a stellar game if just one major thread had been followed, but none of them were. The final product was a text which left you feeling empty inside; speculating about the plot, but in a negative way.

I guess that relates more to how you tie up the plot, or lack thereof, though. Even if you don't have a plot, you need to tie things up; make some sort of statement in the end which validates your text so the responder doesn't feel like it was a waste of time. Otherwise you'll leave the responder with a feeling of meaninglessness which could work against you very powerfully.

2 lire

 

[xeuyrawp]

I didn't really have a plot, but I did well. I guess I had several plots, going in chronological order as well as poking into other plot lines. Anyway, just make sure you're not doing that "I'm too cool for x (in this case, plot lines), because i'm above it"

 

[flip_flop]

mmm... thanks guys. i guess you're all right.

I can't just have a formless mash of words that dont amount to any sought of conclusion. if i dont have a plot, doesn't my story effectively go nowhere?

ARGH. who would become a writer?? lol

anyone else have an opinion??

 

[iambored]

I don't know if it is a good idea and i am not and have never been an ee2 student, but no plot could highlight the madness of the character, the messiness, it could focus more on the inside of his head rather than what's going on around him and show he can't really process that because of his state so he is more absorbed with his own feelings and madness

 

[jhakka]

A plot gives your story a sense of direction, rather than leaving the marker thinking "What is the goddamn point!" Even if there is a great deal of inner monologue and whatnot, some kind of purpose or defining event(s) that could be identified as plot points help your story to go forward.

"What part are you up to?"
"The bit where he's talking to yourself."
"OK, within that 8000 word section, what are you up to?"

^Not a marker reaction you want.

 

[xeuyrawp]

A plot gives your story a sense of direction, rather than leaving the marker thinking "What is the goddamn point!" Even if there is a great deal of inner monologue and whatnot, some kind of purpose or defining event(s) that could be identified as plot points help your story to go forward.

"What part are you up to?"
"The bit where he's talking to yourself."
"OK, within that 8000 word section, what are you up to?"

^Not a marker reaction you want.

I disagree with that. A single plot can be far less effective than a non-linear one.

 

[Slidey]

jhakka wasn't saying don't not have a plot (love the double negatives). He was saying make sure you have a purpose. And he's right - if the markers feel like it had no purpose, it's not going to go (as) well

 

[xeuyrawp]

jhakka wasn't saying don't not have a plot (love the double negatives). He was saying make sure you have a purpose. And he's right - if the markers feel like it had no purpose, it's not going to go (as) well

The title of the thread refers to plot not purpose. In any case, you can have a vast variety of plots but linking them with a single purpose/theme makes a good MW. {end transmission.}

 

[jhakka]

The title of the thread refers to plot not purpose. In any case, you can have a vast variety of plots but linking them with a single purpose/theme makes a good MW. {end transmission.}

Even though the plot is the focus of this thread, it doesn't hurt to offer alternatives. In any case, I feel that some direction in the Major Work (regardless of if it takes its form in the idea of a plot, the gradual introduction of concepts and ideas in a somewhat identifiable manner) is necessary so the marker doesn't think you just randomly threw together 8000 words of total crap.

 

[xeuyrawp]

Even though the plot is the focus of this thread, it doesn't hurt to offer alternatives.

I totally agree, I was actually justifying why I may have mis-read part of your post.

Basically, I think we all agree that direction and thematic cohesion is (whilst a boring plot/storyline isn't) necessary.

 

[jhakka]

I totally agree, I was actually justifying why I may have mis-read part of your post.

Basically, I think we all agree that direction and thematic cohesion is (whilst a boring plot/storyline isn't) necessary.

Agreed. I just thought it would be best to clear up my post in case things got heated.

 

[xeuyrawp]

Agreed. I just thought it would be best to clear up my post in case things got heated.

And things aren't heated now!?!!?!?! *insert insult*
In any case, how can things get heated in an EE2 thread?

 

[jhakka]

You *insert witty retort here*. This is how it can *profanity* get *another, more colourful profanity* heated.

http://www.boredofstudies.org/community/showthread.php?t=48963

 

[glitterfairy]

*shakes with laughter - WITHOUT falling off her chair*

I think an entire absence of plot (much like entire absence of musicality in dance or music - but that's a story for another day) would be ineffective and difficult to read. There has to be *some* unity. In fact, I'd say unity is the most important thing...

That being said, what is "plot"?

 

[xeuyrawp]

That being said, what is "plot"?

(in the short-story kind) The actions of characters and the events that you directly read about. A storyline, however, is the total story, the whole "world", if you like. man that was explained poorly. Put it this way (ripping off someone, don't remember who): The plot is: "The king and queen died", the story is: "The king died, and the queen died of grief".

 

[glitterfairy]

*scrutinises*

You don't do ENGL120 at Mac, do you?

I swear I've heard that line in one of the lectures...

But back to topic, I have yet to read anything that has no plot. Even if only a mini-plot...

 

[flip_flop]

me defense, lol

*grin from ear to ear*

that was ana wesome response from all of you guys - thanks so much for ur input, it has been really helpful.

so i guess now i have a couple of things to say, lol...

there has been heavy discussion of the idea of purpose and meaning, and its significance to the development of the plot. at this point i tihnk i should explain abit more what im actually writing...

put briefly the story is of a girl who looses her mind. but what ive actually done is used a heavy surreal lit influence, as their movement is associated with the unconsious, to almost OMIT her insanity. her progressions of thought slowly eradicate, and this is shown through style. as she digresses into madness, the writing becomes MORE surreal, in a way. The setting doesnt change.

so with that said, my major work is not just a jumble of words. far from it. i am trying to be... i guess selective about the language i use to try and properly illustrate her inability to distinguish bewteen reality and fantasy. ive become reliant on the "surrealist law of images" if anyone is familiar with that, and basically they become more apparent as the story proresses, but still the images have importance and meaning (ie. allusive to a Magritte artwork, etc)

she also develops a very narcissistic quality. now THIS is what i think is my only truly tangible plot point: her obsession with... well... herself, lol.

someone remarked that without a plot the marker could be oblivious to the entire point of my m.w, but the point of m.w is to highlight the intanglible quality of the mind, and to challenge the modern preoccupation of the diagnosis of mental conditions. to me, cause is peripheral, and the effect is most paramount.

another thing i should mention is that the character is an appropriation of a shakespearean character (kudos if u kno who it is), the appropriation is very clear from the start. and so what i want to do is appropriate the condition, and extend the general stigmas and pathos from this original character. i think shakespearean tragedies have a plot that are tough to appropriate convincingly. so what im doing is continuing the circumstance of this character's madness.

does it matter what drove her insane?

if anything, the absence of this knowledge omits her mystery and innocence.

someone else rose the point that no plot would mean no direction. i think the time calls for a story, lol....

ive been listening to metalica's CD; "S&M". for those of u who dont kno, they teamed up with the san francisco symphony for a huge performance. the conducter and composer of the symphony;s music said that he regarded the music not as a performace of individual metallica songs, but rather "just one very mood provoking storm of sound".

not that im comparing my m.w to metallica and the S.F Symphony... but can't my m.w be on that same tangent. an aray of mood provoking language styles that amounts to a storm of insanity?

the mind is intangible. yet scientists try and rationalise every part of it.
why rationalise my story with a plot when THAT is exactly the quality im trying to condemn?

 

[xeuyrawp]

*scrutinises*

You don't do ENGL120 at Mac, do you?

I swear I've heard that line in one of the lectures...

But back to topic, I have yet to read anything that has no plot. Even if only a mini-plot...

No I'm not, there's only room for one elective (philosophy) in my degree- I think I head the King/Queen line in my EE2 class.

 

[xeuyrawp]

Hey Flip, I didn't see your post because I had the window still in the thread and I didn't refresh it. Thanks for the PM.

I really like the sound of your work, and I LOVE it when stylistic features are part of the story- with your style of writing reflecting the existence of a character. Sounds cool

You should read my MW, my plot wasn't important at all. There were several plots in the story, my MW went through time, I guess, and it was really what they were thinking about and their reflection of their experiences that made the story what it was.

In any case, I guess what everyone's saying re: plot=direction is true, but texts that JUST have plots are terrible (trashy SciFi are these kinds of texts, fun to watch, but haven't got much worth); it's so important to have interesting characters and a creative writing style that highlights your original themes and concepts.

When I read an interesting book, the plot becomes nothing more than a kind of setting for the character to interact with.

My two cents, and thanks for the PM again (don't like to look like a jackass who ignored your post)