Islam Discussion (2 Viewers)

[SashatheMan]

See that's exactly what I have been trying to say. You have all had exposure to Christianity and you have said yourselves that you believe it to be worng based on your personal experiences....but have you ever given Islam a chance?

The offer of meeting a sheikh still stands...and I will pay for it.

i dont need to givve islam a chance. i can know enough of what people believe to make a decision not to believe something that doesnt fall under what i consider logical and rational. Its not the fact that its islam , its the fact that all religions preach nonsence without justification, christianity was just the religion that proved it to me, but i can see in other people that all religions just try to brainwash people into believing what they think is best.

so the question is have you experienced the wonderful new cult/religion that is Scientology. They have a guy called Xeno who created humans trillions of years ago. it also features spaceships

 

[zahid]

I believe theism as a whole to be wrong, and illogical. If you wish to present to me an argument which shows that it's more probable that there is a god, than there isn't one, I'll be glad to view it. But all such arguments seem to violate Occam's Razor because they assume too much.

Ok fine...then have all your questions ready and I shall take to to an Sheikh or Imam.

 

[TerrbleSpellor]

Correct...but one point i would like to add is that, in the eyes of Allah there is a chance and an opportunity that exists for you all....So in this life you have a chance to belive or not believe...do the right things or do the wrong things...which is why this life is the ultimate test...after which you may enter the "Jannatul Ferdous" Inshallah.

Christianity believes this as well...... But it seems a bit far fetched for me. If you don't do everything right in this life.. if you don't live the way jesus (or mohammed) wants you to live.. If you don't do this, don't do that.. Then god will chuck you into an inferno known as hell, where you will spend eternity seperated from the glory of god, where you will be tortured and you will rot for ever............ But god LOVES you! He does! He loves you more than anything..... But... He might one day chuck you into hell..

The difference between Christianity and Islam, appears to be that Muslims view god as fierce, where as Christians view him as loving of everyone.

And how is this life supposed to be a test, when god supposedly already knows how it's going to end anyway?

There's soooo many flaws in Christianity and Islam.. and every religion. But the difference is Islam is actually a pain in the arse at the moment.

 

[SashatheMan]

Only reading the Quran can prove to you thats its the Word of Allah....no human can write is such a manner. Professor Ahmad Deedat has even shown proof that many have tried to write scriptures in the form that exists in the quran but have all failed. Oh and By the Way our Prophet Muhammad was illeterate.

what do you mean they cant write in such a manner. Its arabic and its a sentence.i am sure many fiction writters can come up with creative narratives that parrallel the bogus claims quran makes. and what exaclty did Professor Ahmad do to proove this?
Shakespear wrote so brilliantly ,many say people cant match his writing skills. Does that make it proof that he was actually god?

 

[TerrbleSpellor]

my ex-maths tutor said that he would rather be a jew or a christian than be a shi'ite muslim. lol I found that funny (he's a sunni).

 

[SashatheMan]

zahid you were born into a muslim family, and your parents probably told you of the quran and you were around many muslim people who also told you stories of islam. Now how likely is it that you would be a muslim today if you were born in into a christian family who lived in a non muslim country and didnt have a mosque near them or Qurans lying around? i doubt you would read up on islam.

 

[Capitalist Pig]

Only reading the Quran can prove to you thats its the Word of Allah....no human can write is such a manner. Professor Ahmad Deedat has even shown proof that many have tried to write scriptures in the form that exists in the quran but have all failed. Oh and By the Way our Prophet Muhammad was illeterate.

That's one of the most moronic things I've ever read. You view the Koran through glasses which are not only rose tinted, but painted pink! If you believe that it is the word of Allah then of course it is going to seem inherently beautiful and only possibly written by Him, otherwise you will not. This is a highly circular argument and therefore fallacious.

 

[SashatheMan]

Only reading the Quran can prove to you thats its the Word of Allah....no human can write is such a manner. Professor Ahmad Deedat has even shown proof that many have tried to write scriptures in the form that exists in the quran but have all failed. Oh and By the Way our Prophet Muhammad was illeterate.

i tried to find info on claims this guy made, but it doesnt mention anything about him having proof of people failiing to mimic the quiran. show me a good, link for it

 

[zahid]

zahid you were born into a muslim family, and your parents probably told you of the quran and you were around many muslim people who also told you stories of islam. Now how likely is it that you would be a muslim today if you were born in into a christian family who lived in a non muslim country and didnt have a mosque near them or Qurans lying around? i doubt you would read up on islam.

Have you ever heard of Cat Stevens? He ws brought up in a Christian Family (STRICT ONE) he did not live in a muslim country, he didn't have a mosque near him....so how did he convert to Islam?....search him up..

 

[Capitalist Pig]

Have you ever heard of Cat Stevens? He ws brought up in a Christian Family (STRICT ONE) he did not live in a muslim country, he didn't have a mosque near him....so how did he convert to Islam?....search him up..

1 case does not maketh a trend.

 

[zahid]

1 case does not maketh a trend.

No you are absolutely right but what it does is "reveal" that there is that opportunity.

 

[Capitalist Pig]

No you are absolutely right but what it does is "reveal" that there is that opportunity.

And the fact that Brian Lara can make 400 in a test match reveals there is an opportunity, but it doesn't mean it happens very often.

 

[SashatheMan]

No you are absolutely right but what it does is "reveal" that there is that opportunity.

i am sure theres been many islamic people who converted to christianity, so what. Your example of a single person doesnt prove anything. Yes there is an opportunity, to converty, however theres an obortunity to do alot of things. Theres an opportunity to convert away from islam aswell.

so far people have an opportunity to do what ever they feel, and since christian numbers are much higher, going by your reasoning, christianity is the right religion to convert to.

read this article

http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/14689.htm

Some 3,000 Christians in the UK are in danger because they have chosen to convert from Islam. Some are being actively harassed and persecuted, but many church leaders seem more interested in defending their attackers than in standing up for the rights of the converts.
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In countries such as Saudi Arabia, Iran and Sudan the law of the land specifies the death sentence for apostates from Islam, though this is only rarely practised. What is more common is for those who have left Islam to be persecuted in a multitude of other ways, including imprisonment and torture.

This article gives you 3000 more people who converted away from islam , probably because they were attrracted to the unconscionable true religion of christianity.
This article also proves that islamic people will use force to stop anyone converting, becuase its a more inhumane religion, and involved turture just to prove their point.

 

[TerrbleSpellor]

Have you ever heard of Cat Stevens? He ws brought up in a Christian Family (STRICT ONE) he did not live in a muslim country, he didn't have a mosque near him....so how did he convert to Islam?....search him up..

A freak looking for more fame?

I know of Australians or Americans who have converted to hurray christnas and buddhism and a whole range or things.. Satanism.. etc.

 

[physician]

The difference between Christianity and Islam, appears to be that Muslims view god as fierce, where as Christians view him as loving of everyone.

No actualy, Muslims Love and fear Allah, and his mercy overrirdes his punishment!

And how is this life supposed to be a test, when god supposedly already knows how it's going to end anyway?

God knows how its going to end, but every human decides on the outcome, we are given the choice to decide and act, to do right or wrong, God does not decide this for us, Yes, he knows the outcome, but it us who decide and lead to this outcome!...we are given free will, and freedom of choice!!!

After sept the 11th, my maths teacher said that Satan has influenced and manipulated islam in such a way that it has caused, and will cause, immeasurable pain and suffering.

I would agree to an extent, however, Islam has not been manipulated, its the people, not the religion!... and satan can merely whisper, so he is not to blame for anyones sins!

edit: (found a verse clarly indicating that satan will not be to blame for our sins!)

]"And the Devil said when the matter has been decided: “Lo! Allah promised you the promise of truth, and I promised you and failed you! And I had no power over you save that I called unto you and you obeyed me. So blame me not, but blame yourselves! I cannot help you, nor can you help me. Lo! I disbelieve in that which you before ascribed to me. Lo! For wrong doers is a painful doom." (Ibrahim: 22)

How do you know that when god visited mohammed and told him to rewrite the koran, that it wasn't satan pretending to be god or what ever it is you believe i can't remember.

As Zahid has pointed out, Muhammad (peace be upon him) was illiterate and he was not appointed to RE-write the Quran, he memorised the Quran sent from God (Allah) through the angel Gabriel, but to add to this; see below!!!

Satan is an expert manipulator.. He can pretend to be anyone or anything.. He can fool humans and their senses. How do you know that he didn't manipulate mohammed in that way so that he could find a way to cause all of this pain and terrorism in the world. All of this oppression of women.. etc.

Good question, however, if u look closely into Islam, women for example, are not oppressed, women in Islam are liberated, I understand this may seem odd to u...as I have read alot of view points which indicate otherwise, however this is the case, not one mulsim women i know feels oppressed, they all wore the Hijab by choice at their own free will (in fact members of my family dont wear the hijab because its their own free will) , if a women is oppressed this is surely not backed up by Islamic teachings and is not supported in the dealings of the prophet muhammad (peace be upon him) with his wives, daughters...etc. And in regards to terrorsim, once again its the people, not the religion. No where in Islam is terrorism accepted, encouraged or preached, I feel just as hurt by all these acts as u urself probably feel, if not more!!!

Everytime I hear of a terrorist attack which has been done under the name of Islam, it hurts me 1000 times more than it hurts u, to see ur own relgion being crushed by its own followers is very painful. These people are sending the wrong message. A common saying that seems to be spreading amongst converts is the follwing:

"If I met the people (i.e todays muslims) before the religion (i.e Islam), i would not have become a muslim"... so from this we can see that muslims are not doing enough towards their religion, do we speak Islam when we walk out into the streets? do we behave in an Islamic manner? (i.e in accordance to the prophets behaviour, and that described in the Quran)... and this is a common error in many muslims, we do note act in accordnace to the teachings of Islam, yet we call orsleves Muslims...however we need to understand, if u wish to be introduced to the true Islam u need to do ur own reserach, ur own reading, extensive reading btw, and then from there one can make a valid judgment!

anyways... Back to satan.... Yes he is an expert manipulator, however, If Muhammad (peace be upon him) was influenced by satan, why does the Quran warn us against satan, and not say good about satan?

I'll get back to this, sorry i just gotta go do something, and I'll be bak!!!


BACK:.. sorry about that, my computer was in use!!!

k, yeh back to satan!...

i'll just quote translations of some of the verses, describing satan!

"The angels fell down prostrate, everyone except Iblis (Satan) he was arrogant and became one of the disbelievers." (Saad: 74-75)

"And if the Devil should cause you to forget, sit not after the remembrance, with the congregation of wrong doers." (Al-An`am: 68)

"O you who believe! Follow not the footsteps of the Devil, for those who follow the footsteps of the Devil, he commands lewdness and evil." (An-Nur: 21)

"The devil promises you poverty and enjoins on you lewdness, but Allah promises you forgiveness from Himself and bounty." (Al-Baqarah: 268)


and just to add; Before we recite a verse from the Quran, we always say the following:

“I seek refuge in Allah from the cursed Devil.”

anyways, sorry if I went beyond what ur question was asking, however, the main point being that the teachings of Islam can sometimes be different to the actions of some 'muslims'... and whilst the followers of a religion can often offer a sufficient reflection of the teachings of the religion itself, the behaviour of some can often reflect not the teachings of the religion but merely the ignorance that one may posses of its teachings, rules, etc...

So I merely ask of anyone, not to merely judge Islam by its followers, but rather judge it according to its teachings (i.e the Quran and sunnah (doings of the prophet muhammad peace be upon him))

Just to add, within the past few days, I have been introduced to alot of misconceptions by googling some of the questions ppl have been asking on these forums... and have been introduced to alot of false claims etc, however I also realised that the difference between one discovereing the truth and one being introduced to falsehood is merely the differnce between clicking on the first link or the 2nd (when googling).

if uve actualy read my entire post, thank u!... if not , i dont balme u, I just realised how long it was!

 

[firehose]

read this article

http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/14689.htm



This article gives you 3000 more people who converted away from islam , probably because they were attrracted to the unconscionable true religion of christianity.
This article also proves that islamic people will use force to stop anyone converting, becuase its a more inhumane religion, and involved turture just to prove their point.

Very interesting article Sashatheman


The key point for me from it was...

From its inception, Islam has rigorously sought to prevent its adherents from choosing any other faith. Such apostates are regarded as traitors and – according to shari’a (Islamic law) – should be executed.

 

[SashatheMan]

Satan is an expert manipulator.. He can pretend to be anyone or anything.. He can fool humans and their senses. How do you know that he didn't manipulate mohammed in that way so that he could find a way to cause all of this pain and terrorism in the world. All of this oppression of women.. etc.

physician i dont think you answred his question. You just went on to say that women are not oppressed. it still leaves the question of satan manipulating mohammeds mind.
maybe satan told mohammed alot of things that are concidered good, but that was just a cover up to his true motif of destroying islam and human kind. hhmmm. satan is all power and all wise.

 

[SashatheMan]

silence
i spent alot of it on charitable goods
for the Sake of Allah..for the sake of duw'a and for the sake of islam...
la wajh il'ah

dont tell me to silence you heathen.

what the hell do u mean u spent money for the sake of allah , duw'a and islam. that money is gonna fuel corporate greed that the stores owners are possesed with. that money you spent is helping the greedy money loving people who forget of god in pursuit of profits. i am sorry soha you shame allah and islam when u spent that money. plus you are greedy. 600 is over board. i am sure allah would give it back to you and tell you to invest it into something longterm

 

[Liberator]

Islam is only one of the many misguided religions, which fight for the name of god. Sadly all religions will fail. Muslims and the like will know the wrath of god, as he oppresses your lives on earth and then restrict you to the gates of heaven.
Only accessible path is to deny god and forget his existence in this life and thereafter. Strive to achieve success through money and power, and enjoy the feeling of greed and gluttony, as they are the true tests you must take on earth. God only shackles those who are weak and lures them to throw away their mortal lives and praise him. But as I said before he will not reward you in the afterlife.

 

[zahid]

Islam is only one of the many misguided religions, which fight for the name of god. Sadly all religions will fail. Muslims and the like will know the wrath of god, as he oppresses your lives on earth and then restrict you to the gates of heaven.
Only accessible path is to deny god and forget his existence in this life and thereafter. Strive to achieve success through money and power, and enjoy the feeling of greed and gluttony, as they are the true tests you must take on earth. God only shackles those who are weak and lures them to throw away their mortal lives and praise him. But as I said before he will not reward you in the afterlife.

riiiiight.