japanese only thread! (1 Viewer)

[mercury]

hmm, it's weird, when i select chines it shows up lemme try again

 

[mercury]

ձZǤ

 

[mercury]

???{??

 

[mercury]

Ō̃eXg

if this doesn't work, i give up... input from xp should be shift jis, i don't know why it's not

 

[mercury]

悵IOɁAǂȖ肪_Ȃ_EEE

 

[Lexicographer]

Ok, your encoding is now Shift-JIS which is good. I have noticed that the board won't recognise "hon", it always ends up becoming "E#123;" but aside from that your encoding is all good.

 

[mercury]

hen desu ne... demo, daijoubu you =p romaji de kaku koto mo daijobu to omou yo.

Lexicographer san wa itsu kara nihongo wo benkyou shihajimemasu ka? Watashi wa shichi nen sei datta toki hajimete nihongo wo benkyoushimashita. Sono toki, gakkou de, gengou wo futasu benkyoushinakerebanaranai kara chuugokugo to nihongo wo erabimashita. sorera wo eranta noni, sensei ni watashi wa nihongo to furansu go wo saremashita. chotto zan nen da tomtta ga, furansu go mo omoshirokatta desu.

 

[mle]

encoding ga zen zen yomukoto ga dekinai kara romaji o kaita hoo ga ii to omou. kenshin toiu anime wa watashi no ichiban ski na anime, demo watashi wa tokidoki shika anime o minai. laurissa toiu watashi no class mate (kurasu meeto) wa ima nihongo mo furansugo mo benkyooshiteiru kara HSC no toki shiken o ryoohoo shimasu. atama ga ii ne?

minnasan, eigo mo nihongo no shiken de gambatte yo!

 

[Takuya]

Originally posted by mle
encoding ga zen zen yomukoto ga dekinai kara romaji o kaita hoo ga ii to omou. kenshin toiu anime wa watashi no ichiban ski na anime, demo watashi wa tokidoki shika anime o minai. laurissa toiu watashi no class mate (kurasu meeto) wa ima nihongo mo furansugo mo benkyooshiteiru kara HSC no toki shiken o ryoohoo shimasu. atama ga ii ne?

minnasan, eigo mo nihongo no shiken de gambatte yo!

a bit odd..

But it is funny that even in Continuers' Course people are taught to speak so strangely. I did Continuers' for 2 months at my school but I was kicked out and so I now do Background Speakers' via correspondence.

My girlfriend Masayuki does the same...

 

[HydeSan]

Oi minna!
Watashi wa atarashii member desu.
Oshiete, dare ga ima Nihongo no Extension wo benkyoushiteiru? Muzukashii?

 

[hurrotisrobbo]

> But it is funny that even in Continuers' Course people are taught to speak so strangely.

Care to elaborate?

I'm genuinely interested.

 

[kouri]

Originally posted by mle
encoding ga zen zen yomukoto ga dekinai kara romaji o kaita hoo ga ii to omou. kenshin toiu anime wa watashi no ichiban ski na anime, demo watashi wa tokidoki shika anime o minai. laurissa toiu watashi no class mate (kurasu meeto) wa ima nihongo mo furansugo mo benkyooshiteiru kara HSC no toki shiken o ryoohoo shimasu. atama ga ii ne?

minnasan, eigo mo nihongo no shiken de gambatte yo!

oro...atashi mo RK ga daaiiiisukiiii

saikin, mata 'seisouhen' wo mita... mata...naichatta -_-

Originally posted by hurrotisrobbo
> But it is funny that even in Continuers' Course people are taught to speak so strangely.

Care to elaborate?

I'm genuinely interested.

atashi mo ..kyomi ga aru ;p

hmmm...tokoro de, dare ga 'ambition' ni iku tsumori?

 

[mercury]

Yes... even my jap friends say that the stuff in wakatta sound a bit odd.

Dakara... takuya san wa mo sugoshi setsumei shite kudasai?

takuya san wa nihon ni urameshitaka? itsu osutoraria ni kimashita ka?

 

[Takuya]

Originally posted by hurrotisrobbo
> But it is funny that even in Continuers' Course people are taught to speak so strangely.

Care to elaborate?

I'm genuinely interested.

It's just that although the language taught at schools is meant to be formal, it's just a different type of formal - 'textbook' formal maybe. Even when 'casual' talk appears in the Background Speakers course it's about a generation behind. Japanese is unlike English in that the Japanese language changes just about everyday, with more and more so-called 'slang' words being accepted into normal conversations.

It's also funny that a lot of the courses focus around very rigid, set expressions, and students basically end up repeating set phrases with a few bits of vocabulary changed here and there. It also doesn't help when textbooks confuse FORMAL language with KEIGO. I can tell when I read some of the material in this forum, it's all a perfect example of what I've been saying, with a few misplaced quotes from cartoons (yes, it is very easy to distinguish).

What I'm talking about is a lack of expression in the current BOS Japanese courses. I must say, English in Japan used to be taught much better than Japanese is taught in Australia, that is, before the huge conversation school franchises took over.

The Beginners Course is a joke... But if used properly you may be called 'cute' by native speakers.

The Continuers Course is a little better, but 4-5 years and still not b... Also, leaving 'changing worlds' to English please.

The Background Speakers Course is quite good. It's not so much about being able to speak the language as having to be able to express yourself in the language. Think of it as being like English (I do Extension 1), but in Japanese. It's a little bit of philosophy and a little bit of personal opinion. The spoken exam was very straightforward, yet some candidates found it hard to speak in polite form consistently (believe it or not, many young Japanese cannot). The upcoming exam is altogether 3 hours and I'm looking forward to it.

Why is it scaled so poorly? Because it's not a course for foreigners. It's a course for Japanese studying in NSW who want to study something similar to @but without all the Chinese. However, the difference between Background Speakers Japanese and real Japanese is like the difference between classroom English and the English you speak in real life.

I can't remember 'studying' for this course, just reading the material and then putting it aside. I also think that the BOS recognises that it really isn't that hard.

However, Japanese students are not doomed. You can learn Japanese from a textbook, and I have seen many books which teach the language very well. What I don't like is how books schools use for these courses completely ignore the subtleties of the language; for example the difference between node and kara, ~ttara and ~reba, the proper usage of noni, etc...

As for me, I began learning English when I came to Australia in Year 5, but yet I still feel that I am talking in textbook phrases and cliches I've picked up from other people...

End of essay.

 

[kouri]

i have to agree that the beginners course sucks balls.

and even as a beginner, sometimes i realise (dont even mention the way i talk in japanese) the way some other continuers talk...
(since i've met some real japanese ppl) that it is quite different

oooooh wellies...

well you can't really say the course SUCKS and its screwed completely. you can't expect a non japanese person to learn the contemporary japanese language just like 'that'

sore ni, omae mo itta deshhou? nihongo ga mainichi mainichi kawattekara sa... sugoku muzukashii no yo.

 

[mercury]

Consultation:

So what do you believe to be the difference between ~node and~kara, ~tara and ~nara and ~reba ? And the proper usage of ~noni?

Yeah I understand what you mean, ppl don't talk like this everyday. But then this is sorta the same for learning languages in classroom in every country. Unless it's made a conversation based teaching, like the ei kaiwa school in Japan.

I guess the best way to learn to talk jap is just talk to Japanese heaps. Dakara, Takuya san, iro iro oshi e te kudasai.

Ah and what do you think of the language used in Anime? Are they closer to how Japanese talk in daily life?

 

[kouri]

i have a feeling the way they talk in anime is ...not so much like the way they talk in real life...haha...

but the way they DO talk in anime is a lot... cuter? cooler? or..wackier??

it also depends on what kinda anime of course..
something like naruto and... hmmm some other off weird anime would have a weird dialogue

but yyeah takuya..since we all suck at japanese. why dont you teach us all haha..
woohoo~

 

[Takuya]

Originally posted by mercury
Consultation:

So what do you believe to be the difference between ~node and~kara, ~tara and ~nara and ~reba ? And the proper usage of ~noni?

Yeah I understand what you mean, ppl don't talk like this everyday. But then this is sorta the same for learning languages in classroom in every country. Unless it's made a conversation based teaching, like the ei kaiwa school in Japan.

I guess the best way to learn to talk jap is just talk to Japanese heaps. Dakara, Takuya san, iro iro oshi e te kudasai.

Ah and what do you think of the language used in Anime? Are they closer to how Japanese talk in daily life?

No, Anime is in no way near close to daily talk. If it were so, then it would be very boring for Japanese. A lot of slang is used, and often characters in Anime will make up their own 'slang' to give themselves 'character'. Therefore, copying such made-up 'slang' will only make you seem either 1. stupid, or 2. a complete Anime maniac. Another way of giving characters in Anime 'personality' is by having them speak in a dialect (which is usually a well known one, yet I recall a ridiculous skit in which subtitles(!) had to be used). Now, this is interesting for the viewer, but terrible for the Japanese student. Why? Because there's nothing more hilarious than hearing someone hold a conversation in Kansaiben, Tosaben, Nagoyaben, Yonezawaben and even the terrible OKINAWAN dialect all at once. I remember trying to hold a straight face when an apparently eager AUSTRALIAN Japanese student (who appeared in his late twenties) approached me at a dreaded conversation school in Japan.

If you're an Anime fan, sure, go for it, but don't expect to be able to hold any serious conversations. Another thing is, if you're learning Japanese because you want to be able to 'understand Animes', forget it... In order to learn a language, I believe there needs to be an element of necessity. For me, it was having to live in Australia. Passion is also another thing, but somehow the word 'passion' and 'anime' don't mix.

Another thing, I once knew a completely innocent foreigner who quite plainly told me, "I study Jap coz I wanna hook up with some Jap chicks". I told him to "Go for it", but I don't think he had any luck in the end anyway. I know there are many here who study Japanese with exactly the same thing in mind, but I hate to tell you this - Japanese girls are no longer as stupid as you think. Nowadays, there's some controversy going around young Japanese, call it the GAISEN RONSOU (*winks* at any native speakers reading this)... I don't want to explain in a very detailed fashion as it may offend, but take it from me, girls can tell when a foreigner has sex in mind when they approach them to 'practise their Jap'. By the way, please don't say Jap. Typing an extra 5 letters will get you a long way...

My advice for those of you who want to successfully communicate in Japan; stick to what you've been taught in the textbook and don't try and use ridiculous sayings, catchphrases or cliches in order to blend in with the Japanese sound waves. No matter how long you study Japanese, you will be acknowledged as a non-native speaker, and there will be the occassional smarty-pants who will try and catch you out and make a point of embarassing you.

Now, back to Eikaiwa schools... Eikaiwa schools in Japan are HORRIBLE. The foreigners teaching there can't speak Japanese, and sometimes I wonder if they're real teachers or just foreigners trying to make a quick dollar on their tourist visa. What they teach is worse than what's taught in the BOS Beginners Course, only franchised...

 

[mercury]

I see, I can vaguely understand the animes I've watched, but I mainly learn vocab from it =p I thought it's better idea to talk to native speakers to improve speaking. Unfortunately my teacher is not one, and I think that is a disadvantage. So it was great when a student teacher came along as she is native speaker and can pick out the subtle mistakes as you pointed out before.

By the way, is "Jap" really insulting to Japanese? Why is that so? Thanks for pointing out because I was never aware of this until you mentioned. Well, personally I am learning Japanese because I actually want to speak the language fluently, and I guess that takes time. It is sometimes frustrating to think that having learnt a language at school for 6 years, yet barely able to speak it well.

Are the eikaiwa schools bad? hoho, maybe I should consider going to Japan to become one some day (after I learn to speak Japanese fluently of course).

You still haven't answered the grammar points =p

ah, and I hope I don't sound rude, but what dialect do you speak?
And please don't hesistate to correct me if I sounded weird in any Japanese I post here.

 

[Takuya]

Originally posted by kouri
i have a feeling the way they talk in anime is ...not so much like the way they talk in real life...haha...

but the way they DO talk in anime is a lot... cuter? cooler? or..wackier??

it also depends on what kinda anime of course..
something like naruto and... hmmm some other off weird anime would have a weird dialogue

but yyeah takuya..since we all suck at japanese. why dont you teach us all haha..
woohoo~

You don't necessarily all suck at Japanese. If you use what you have in your course, you can still communicate with Japanese people. However, through your courses you will always be a Japanese student talking to a native speaker... Some University courses are OK, but still just a few steps away from allowing their students to fully master the language.

Keep in mind, being able to 'speak' Japanese is much different from being able to 'recite textbook phrases'. Once you think you've read all the Japanese textbooks out there, you'll ask yourself why you still don't feel like you 'fit in' when you talk...

My solution, go and read all the Japanese history textbooks out there

There's a subtle difference between a native who speaks Japanese perfectly and a foreigner who speaks Japanese perfectly, but I believe it is possible. I myself have been convinced by recordings of foreigners speaking Japanese, and even their accents were true to one region, but there was still one little thing. I think I've found what it is... Can anyone guess?!