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newbie computer questions ver.2332234 (winamp) (1 Viewer)

Huy

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Originally posted by Winston
Hmmm yes it can, so we're all waiting for Longhorn, which will be vector rendered visual styles, (btw people should start calling it visual styles, rather than themes, because they are two different things) :)
Well, you should think that by 2006 the requirement (minimum) would be 1-2GB of RAM (see Bill Gate's "crazy" specs for Longhorn).

If on a Mac however, the more RAM you give it, the better it runs (I would say 256MB on a Mac is not enough, go for 512 if not 1GB of RAM on a Mac).

For the current Windows XP (and 2000) environment, it would run reasonably fine on 256MB, but again, go for 512-1GB of RAM.

I've had 2GB in my system and really couldn't tell the difference between 1GB and 2GB (2x 512MB DDR400, 4x 512MB DDR400, Dual Channel PC3200; 400MHz).

1GB is the 'optimal' amount of RAM on an XP system, with visual styles turned on, with your system preferences set to appearance (over performance), fade and sliding effects.

Longhorn will be a huge jump, which would require at least 2GB IMO for the best computing experience (on Longhorn).
 

Protector

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Originally posted by Winston
Hmmm yes it can, so we're all waiting for Longhorn, which will be vector rendered visual styles, (btw people should start calling it visual styles, rather than themes, because they are two different things) :)
I wasn't aware anyone here would notice that... you shouldn't have Winston... everywhere else I post I get shunned for calling them visual themes... Now you're just screwing with my head... :p
 

Huy

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Originally posted by Protector
everywhere else I post I get shunned for calling them visual themes... Now you're just screwing with my head... :p
You mean Visual Styles ;)

Everywhere else... including BOS :p
 
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Protector

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I think it says themes... not styles... what a shame... :p
 
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Huy

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Originally posted by Protector


I think it says themes... not styles... what a shame... :p
Don't get smart ;)

"A theme is a set background plus a set of sounds, icons, and other elements to help you personalise your computer with one click"

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwxp/html/xptheming.asp

Using Windows XP Visual Styles
Windows User Experience Team
Microsoft Corporation

May 2001

Introduction
Using Microsoft Windows XP, you can now define the visual style or appearance of controls and windows from simple colors to textures and shapes. You can control each defined part of a control as well as each part of the non-client (frame and caption) area of a window. The user can then use the Appearance tab in the Windows Control Panel to switch between the classic visual style and other available styles.

A visual style is included with the Windows XP release. Using helper libraries and application programming interfaces (APIs), you can incorporate the Windows XP visual style into your application with few code changes. For more information, see the Platform SDK documentation in the MSDN Library.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/d...shellcc/platform/commctls/userex/cookbook.asp

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/d...s/shellcc/platform/commctls/userex/themes.asp

The common controls that are included in Microsoft Windows XP are based on the Microsoft Win32 common controls and user controls. This control set has a new functionality, referred to as visual styles. The look and feel of controls can change based on selected system visual styles.

What Are Visual Styles?

Visual styles are specifications for the appearance of controls. For example, visual styles can define the color, size, and font of controls, and they enable you to configure the visual interface to coordinate with your application interface. Additionally, they provide a mechanism for all Windows-based applications to have visual styles applied.

An updated visual styles application programming interface (API)ComCtl32.dll version 6and an updated UxTheme library are provided in Windows XP to enable you to program visual styles. You use the Theme API to apply visual styles to your applications. This API provides functions for drawing, opening, closing, and retrieving control appearance information.

The common controls library, UxTheme.lib, is a rendering library that separates the visual element of a control from its functionality. Using this library, a control can retrieve its appearance from the current system visual style without you writing specialized code.

UxTheme.lib is used by the common controls to take advantage of system visual styles. ComCtl32.dll queries UxTheme.lib for appropriate dimensions, sizes, and other pertinent information for a control. The dynamic-link library (DLL) calls UxTheme.lib to render the parts of a control or surface. Using UxTheme.lib, you can define the rendering of icons, borders, controls, and other user interface (UI) elements.

You can take advantage of visual styles capability and produce controls that query the system for visual style information. The system UI modifies its appearance based on the visual style specifications. To be able to use visual styles you must have an operating system that contains ComCtl32.dll version 6. Windows XP ships with both version 5 and version 6. By default, all applications running under the Windows XP operating system use version 5 to maintain compatibility with earlier versions of ComCtl32.dll.

If you want your application to use ComCtl32.dll version 6, you must add an application manifest that indicates that version 6 should be used if it is available. Version 6 includes some new controls and new options for other controls, but the biggest change is support for the Windows XP visual styles architecture. See the Using Windows XP Visual Styles for information on how to create application manifests.

Using the common controls delivered in ComCtl32.dll version 6 applies visual styles to your application; therefore you can tailor your application appearance to suit your audience. For example, the business and consumer releases of Windows XP might each implement a different visual style to create user interfaces that distinguish the two releases. The Appearance tab of the Display window on the Windows 2000 Control Panel enables the user to change colors, fonts, and sizes of desktop elements. The new controls provide a way for applications to modify desktop elements in the same way; they enable the system to make changes to any control or window that has a visual style applied.



Straight from the horse's mouth (Microsoft) itself. Nowhere does it say "theme" - only "visual style" (not even visual theme, sorry)







... "I think it says styles, not themes... what a shame" ;) :p
 
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Protector

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I don't care what documentation calls it. If its referred to as a theme in winblows/windoze/windows, then its a theme.

Documentation isn't always right, or useful...

Besides, visual theme is much closer to home.
 
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Winston

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Your wrong mate, documentation is absolutely one of the most crucial items of development it must consistent and correct, and for your info, in that screenshot of display properties, Theme was refering to the way your icons are set, the font size your using for your visual style (how ever you customised it), i can spend about 1 year debating it with you if you like, i have more experience in XP Customization than you would.
 

Winston

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Originally posted by Huy
Well, you should think that by 2006 the requirement (minimum) would be 1-2GB of RAM (see Bill Gate's "crazy" specs for Longhorn).

Longhorn will be a huge jump, which would require at least 2GB IMO for the best computing experience (on Longhorn).
No your actually a little off the track for that 2GB would be a tad over, although yes developers are a bastards and say "it doesn't hurt or it's not a sin to upgrade hardware", but let's get things clear, yes all in all, XP did eat your nuggets out with RAM, because the theming engine wasn't even vector based, as well as the introduction of a bundle of new services.

For Longhorn i should very well say 1 GB would be sufficient already, the fact that the visual styles will be vector rendered as i previously had stated, and also Aero, it's a codename UI Engine which has a large set of new API's all goodies for us .NET Developers, and working together with Avalon, and Indigo, and WinFS, will provide a level where by instead of eating the CPU power for GUI Rendering, it will take full advantage of your video card's processing power, so this is gigantic leap, the build of Longhorn which is a very early alpha shown at PDC, was already amazing, just demonstrating the most fundamental elements the new Longhorn Technologies has to offer, so i have a strong feeling that Longhorn will be a success providing it is launched good enough and tempt most consumers in upgrading, this will also incresingly benefit all .NET Developers by far so much it's crazy, the fact that 40% of the components in Longhorn is actually written under .NET, woah the integrated .NET Framework will have to be written to be extremely stable for the components and simultaneously benefit the developers with a more reformed framework which is good for our applications.
 

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how did a thread about winamp go offtrack to talking about longhorn...amazing how people cannot be consistent :p
 

Protector

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Originally posted by Winston
Your wrong mate, documentation is absolutely one of the most crucial items of development it must consistent and correct, and for your info, in that screenshot of display properties, Theme was refering to the way your icons are set, the font size your using for your visual style (how ever you customised it), i can spend about 1 year debating it with you if you like, i have more experience in XP Customization than you would.

You have no idea how sarcastic I was being... where is the sarcasm button when I need it... =\

Documentation is useful. But the documentation here contradicts the program... its insane.
 

Huy

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Originally posted by Protector
You have no idea how sarcastic I was being... where is the sarcasm button when I need it... =\

Documentation is useful. But the documentation here contradicts the program... its insane.
:rolleyes:
 

Winston

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Originally posted by Protector
You have no idea how sarcastic I was being... where is the sarcasm button when I need it... =\

Documentation is useful. But the documentation here contradicts the program... its insane.
How does it contradict the program?
 

Huy

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Originally posted by Protector
I don't care what documentation calls it. If its referred to as a theme in winblows/windoze/windows, then its a theme.

Documentation isn't always right, or useful...

Besides, visual theme is much closer to home.
I really saw the sarcasm there... :rolleyes:

And why do you bag out Microsoft Windows?

What OS do you use? ...I thought so.


* Goes off to change his "visual theme" :p
 

Protector

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Originally posted by Winston
How does it contradict the program?
...Didn't you look at my sexy screenshot? :p

It says THEMES the extension says THEMES... even the damn description says THEMES...

Originally posted by Huy
I really saw the sarcasm there... :rolleyes:

And why do you bag out Microsoft Windows?

What OS do you use? ...I thought so.


* Goes off to change his "visual theme" :p
Erm... MacG5 doesn't seem to want to run Windows much...
But my P4 beast likes Linux alot... It has XP installed... *mumbles*

Dodgy heap of crap XP... but better than the old crap.
 
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Huy

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If you've got a G5, then I respect that. (I'm a fan of Panther, so I don't knock it)

I'm hoping to purchase an Apple i or PowerBook in the new year, mid to late 2004, if not early 2005 for university and leisure :)
 

Protector

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The G5 is just too damn good...

I have a Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB in a Mac... hahahaha overpowered.

Not to mention my Radeon 9800 XT 256MB in my beasty P4 (which has 4 CPU's...)

4x3.2ghz = OVERPOWERED...

:) Its good for games (it has 4 GB of RAM)

The Mac has 2 GB...

All the fastest (I'm not sure about the Mac... the PC is 400mhz)
 
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Huy

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Originally posted by Protector
The G5 is just too damn good...

I have a Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB in a Mac... hahahaha overpowered.

Not to mention my Radeon 9800 XT 256MB in my beasty P4 (which has 4 CPU's...)

4x3.2ghz = OVERPOWERED...

:) Its good for games (it has 4 GB of RAM)

The Mac has 2 GB...

All the fastest (I'm not sure about the Mac... the PC is 400mhz)
Remind me again how old you are? :D

A G5 with a Radeon 9800 Pro isn't standard (you have to customise the Mac for that).

You've got a Pentium 4 running 4 CPUs (which makes me wonder, are you simply dualing two CPUs with HyperThreading enabled or not) as I myself am running a single CPU, HyperThreading enabled, at 2x 3.3GHz (HT on, otherwise 3.3GHz single).

2GB of RAM is something really expensive, especially if you're using all that horse power in a G5 (what exactly do you use the G5 for? and don't tell me you bought Apple RAM) - 4GB of RAM in a Pentium 4 is pretty unusual, although I could believe 4x 1GB of DDR400 maxing out every single memory bank.

2GB of RAM (DDR333) in a G5 system alone will cost $2000. (This price will increase if you purchase DDR400 on the high-end G5s).

A Radeon 9800 Pro, also bundled with the G5 (designed for the Mac), supported through the Mac BIOS will be $600+

That's almost $6000 for the G5 - on the lowest ("entry-level") single CPU-powered G5, the 1.6GHz.

If, for some reason, you have a Dual 2GHz G5, the top of the line G5 at the moment, you will be looking at, with the inclusion of your 2GB of DDR400 RAM, and Radeon 9800 Pro (128MB) card, almost $8000 worth of hardware.

As for your Pentium system, the Radeon 9800 XT 256MB card will go for about $800 to $1000.

You have also got 4GB of DDR400 PC3200 RAM in your Pentium system, which I assume will be 4x 1GB DDR400. (which will be about 4x $500 = $2000) on top of your $1000 graphics card.

When you look at your 4 CPUs, at 3.2GHz, that equates to:

At $750 (approx) for a current P4 3.2GHz,
4x $750 = $3000 (does not include motherboard, or case, or even PSU!). I'm not even sure if they make quad-powered mainboards, which can support 4 CPUs (remember: this is for the home-market, consumers) - as well as a powerful PSU to support your 4 CPUs, along with a chassis to house all of it!

So I am wondering how you can have a:

Apple G5

* 1.6GHz (single CPU) to dual 2GHz - $5300
* Radeon 9800 Pro, 128MB - $600 through Apple
* 2GB of DDR333 RAM in the 1.6, or DDR400 RAM in the dual 2GHz - $2000 through Apple
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$8000 roughly ($7900)

Pentium 4
* 4x 3.2GHz (quad-CPU) - $3000 @ $750 ea
* 4GB of DDR400 RAM - $2000 @ $500 ea
* Radeon 9800 XT, 256MB - $1000
--------------------------------------------
$6000 roughly


I'm a little weary as to why any parents would give almost $14,000 worth of computer equipment to a 15 year old student.

High-end G5 with your specs


Lower-end G5 with your specs
 
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Fosweb

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Huy, add to that the price of the Fujitsu Table PC that he has...
 

Huss

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Originally posted by Huy
I'm a little weary as to why any parents would give almost $14,000 worth of computer equipment to a 15 year old student.
u can say dat again
 

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