PM to Seize Uni Control from State Governments (2 Viewers)

[Aryanbeauty]

If foreign students who pays full fees can study at any university they like in australia why can't australian. Barring australian students who are willing to pay full fees is a discrimination, as John Howard rightly said.

 

[lengy]

Don't underestimate the difficulty of doing a Nursing course. They are required to know in their fields of study about as much as a doctor would. They are in charge of distributing medication and have to make sure the doctor is giving the right dose. It is up to the nurses to constantly monitor the medication rate so the doctors know how much a patient needs to receive, sometimes advising doctors on the neccessary amount, because it's their heads on the line just as much as doctors should something fuck up.

 

[WWJD_2005]

Don't underestimate the difficulty of doing a Nursing course. They are required to know in their fields of study about as much as a doctor would. They are in charge of distributing medication and have to make sure the doctor is giving the right dose. It is up to the nurses to constantly monitor the medication rate so the doctors know how much a patient needs to receive, sometimes advising doctors on the neccessary amount, because it's their heads on the line just as much as doctors should something fuck up.

I agree, nursing is (imo at least) probably nearly as hard as a medicine course - just shorter perhaps.

 

[Sparcod]

If foreign students who pays full fees can study at any university they like in australia why can't australian. Barring australian students who are willing to pay full fees is a discrimination, as John Howard rightly said.

You don't think that it's a bit unfair that for a large number of courses, full-fee payers can get in with a UAI that's up to 5 points lower than those on CSP, do you?

I was under the impression that the existence of full fee places created MORE places for everyone(as in, there are more CSP places because of full fee places existing) full stop? Does anyone know?

Because if this is true, then I don't see a need to destroy full fee places. It seems like the politics of envy once again, as waf touches on there.

I do believe that unis get some of their 'funding' from full-fee places. You seem to be correct.

I would like it if the government/unis increase the number of places in specific areas which would help reduce skills shortage crisis.

Every person that bashes arts degrees should really shut up.



EDIT: Also, I completely agree with what Bishop's done here. It makes sense and hopefully it's another step to federalisation of the education system.

The unemployment rate for Arts graduates is relatively high.

Source: SMH Good Universities Guide (2004)

 

[Tulipa]

Yes, unemployment is high. However, again Arts degrees do produce teachers.

How and why would you get rid of the Arts degree anyways? Isn't that just turning university then into a vocational instutition rather than somewhere to learn?

 

[banco55]

Yes, unemployment is high. However, again Arts degrees do produce teachers.

How and why would you get rid of the Arts degree anyways? Isn't that just turning university then into a vocational instutition rather than somewhere to learn?

I don't think anyone's talking about getting rid of arts degrees. Some people are arguing that every year Australia has too many places in arts degrees.

 

[Tulipa]

I don't think anyone's talking about getting rid of arts degrees. Some people are arguing that every year Australia has too many places in arts degrees.

What's the problem with it? If they're going to pay for it (HECS) or full fee, then let them.

I mean education isn't free anymore so why care what other people study?

 

[jb_nc]

You do realise different degrees receive different amounts of Commonwealth funding? Look at the HECS 07 book, the Commonwealth contribution for humanities is $4 239, for agricultre it's $16 624 for law it's $1 528 (lol).

Removing BA places does not make any sense, other than rage against "intellectualism" that whingers have.

 

[Tulipa]

You do realise different degrees receive different amounts of Commonwealth funding? Look at the HECS 07 book, the Commonwealth contribution for humanities is $4 239, for agricultre it's $16 624 for law it's $1 528 (lol).

Removing BA places does not make any sense, other than rage against "intellectualism" that whingers have.

Duh.

 

[Triangulum]

Removing BA places does not make any sense, other than rage against "intellectualism" that whingers have.

How dare people study something they're interested in rather than something strictly vocational!

 

[banco55]

How dare people study something they're interested in rather than something strictly vocational!

Well like it or not each student costs money so there are only a few choices (or combination of choices) eithera) the government keeps the same number of places but increases per student funding(b)the government keps the same number of places but levies higher hecs to increase per student funding(c)you cut the number of places and use the money to increase per student funding

 

[WWJD_2005]

Removing BA places does not make any sense, other than rage against "intellectualism" that whingers have.

BURN THE PHILISTINES!

 

[banco55]

What's the problem with it? If they're going to pay for it (HECS) or full fee, then let them.

I mean education isn't free anymore so why care what other people study?

HECS plays only a small portion of it. How many full fee (Australian) Arts students are there? Following your logic we could increase the number of arts places by another 20% because HECS and full fees will pay for it.

 

[Tulipa]

Actually following my logic, leave it as is?

EDIT: Also I would pay full fee if I had to but I don't because I did well in high school and as such was rewarded with a university place. I like learning, I'm paying my HECS and I'm going to get a job afterwards so where exactly is the problem?

 

[banco55]

The bottom line with the left is that they want:

1.high quality courses
2.cheap uni fees
3.high uni participation rates

Realistically you can pick 2 out of 3 at best.

 

[_dhj_]

The bottom line with the left is that they want:

1.high quality courses
2.cheap uni fees
3.high uni participation rates

Realistically you can pick 2 out of 3 at best.

I don't think it's about picking, but about the priority we as a society place on tertiary education. It's a bit perplexing that you attributed those goals to 'the left'. Surely 'the right' would not object to any of those goals either.

 

[withoutaface]

How dare people study something they're interested in rather than something strictly vocational!

Well if I want to study feminist criticisms of rollercoasters, and this has no real benefit to anyone but myself, why should the taxpayers fund it? The entire argument for HECS is that we subsidise degrees because the holder goes on to benefit society.

 

[jb_nc]

Well if I want to study feminist criticisms of rollercoasters, and this has no real benefit to anyone but myself, why should the taxpayers fund it? The entire argument for HECS is that we subsidise degrees because the holder goes on to benefit society.

BENEFIT SOCIETY

how does someone who does a mathematics degree benefit society?

how does someone who reads engineering and then leaves for overseas benefit Australia?

 

[banco55]

I don't think it's about picking, but about the priority we as a society place on tertiary education. It's a bit perplexing that you attributed those goals to 'the left'. Surely 'the right' would not object to any of those goals either.

I think the right has a better idea of what's possible. Incidentally which nation has the following:

1.high quality courses
2.cheap uni fees
3.high uni participation rates

The US has 1, 3 the UK and most of western europe has 2, 3.

 

[withoutaface]

BENEFIT SOCIETY

how does someone who does a mathematics degree benefit society?

how does someone who reads engineering and then leaves for overseas benefit Australia?

Exactly why I support changing all university places to full fee.