Remove Religious Texts from Syllabus (1 Viewer)

[jm1234567890]

To put texts such as "Hymne to god my god in my sicknesse" by john donne is simply unfair to people who are not christian!!!!!

it took me ages to understand some of the religious ideas in the text. This would be obviously a different case with people who are familiar with the religion.

Effectively giving them an advantage!!!!

For example, lines such as "Christs Crosse, and Adams tree, stood in one place" !?!??!?!?!

that means nothing to me the first time I read it!!!!
It was only after asking various people that i got the hang of it.

This is a serious matter that needs to be addressed by the govenment

I'm sure there are others who agree with me

 

[tieki]

That's the whole idea, though, to have ready widely - and the bible is about the most widely read book in the world (behind LOTR, i must admit, rather happily) ...

Speaking as a christian, though, I admit to not knowing a lot of those ideas as well...however, there will always be a group of people that argue that they are disadvantaged by not knowing them. That's the idea of studying them, isn't it - to learn about the ideas presented in the text? Maybe they can take all the poetry out of the syllabus for all us non-poets in the world - that would be nice...

To be honest, even as a christian, doing religion-based texts does not give an advantage. It's still all about analysing what's in the composer's head, creating an argument based on that, and proving that argument on paper. I think, to be able to achieve the same result, the same amount of work needs to be put in either way.

Rock on religious debates! Feel free to argue with me in any way, shape or form, as long it does not involve actual physical violence

 

[malayz_angel]

I'm sure that there are other people out there who would agree with you. Unfortunately I can't call myself one of them. Yes I am a Christian but I read that first quote you put in and it doesn't make much sense to me! So i can't say that I have an "advantage".
Yes I do get the part about Christ's cross and Adam's tree but is that a valid reason to ban it from the syllabus? Religious ignorance is a dangerous thing to get involved in, it is just as dangerous as racism caused by people who don't want to learn about other cultures. The point of being in this world is to try and learn about how other people think and feel and learn about something different. And surprisingly, no, that quote isn't from the Bible, it's all me.
I don't believe in evolution. Does that mean Darwin's theory should be banned from science classes? Are people who don't believe in the idea of creation automatically going to be scientific geniuses? It can happen, yeah, but not to everybody. In fact some scientists believe in God but keep their mind open towards other things. Just as people can NOT believe in God and still respect others.
We're not necessarily the luckiest country in the world but we do claim one thing-- the right to believe in what you believe. In my home country, people that are natives are automatically forced to become Muslims at birth and can never leave the religion. Everyone has the right to believe what they want to. You don't believe in Christianity, that's fine but I don't think you'll be corrupted by a few mentions of God in a Shakespeare play or a novel. I have a friend who considers herself to be an atheist and I respect that just as she respects me and doesn't try to make some big deal out of religious implications in texts... which don't always make sense anyway.

 

[malayz_angel]

By the way I just noticed your nick that knowledge is not achieved unless it is shared. Well by asking ppl about religious meanings in texts, you're learning something new and they're sharing their knowledge. And being religious didn't really help me in my understanding of King Lear and the gods he raves about

 

[AsyLum]

You have got to be joking right ?


Im sorry but the stupidity of people is astounding...perhaps we should also have renamed The Two Towers cos it resembled twin towers...we should cast off the fact that the majority of Shakespeares plays deal with a patriachal system of society and replace it with the Mein Kampf...heck lets get rid of all texts due to the fact they have a thing called subject matter...


It doesnt depend on wether you are christian or muslim or atheist...the fact of the matter is that the poems, whilst utilising a religious conceit and having religious connections throughout, is still a poem and thus it isnt merely the subject you are looking for as an advanced student, but the techniques..


Just a suggestion if you in fact thought that it was religion with which Donne came through you obviously dont have much talent in english and recommend dropping down, as the texts require you to look deeper than merely the topic of the poem...


</2cents | rant>

 

[enak]

To remove his religious texts from the syllabus would to remove Donne from the syllbus. As Asylum pointed out, religion as well as sex is integral in conveying Donnes ideas and views.

Donne was selected as one of the texts because of the complexity of his writing.

1/2AUCents

 

[[x]ED]

Rofl, you got to the post before me Asylum...

all i have to say now is..

"ahhh you got preety axed mate.."


=]

[ x ] E D



</Slamming>

 

[BlackEva]

good god mate, what, the hell, were you thinking?

seriously, asylum said it plain as day, all i can do is add to blatantly obvious, YOUR STUPIDITY.

yeah sure, lets take these symbols out of text books, and take the ink out of pens too, because some people are allergic to it, and they might be offended.

lets take down any sign not written in english, because people who dont speak other languages could be offended by the symbols

and while were at it, take the crosses off the top of every church, because people can drive past and see them and be offended..

THINK before you speak, its the most logical sense of action for any human, i would have thought people doing their HSC would have come to that conclusion by now.

whatever you do, dont become someone important in society, i never want to have to entrust people like you with anything more valuable than bad rash.

 

[tieki]

Yeah! People on my side! hehe...

 

[jm1234567890]

i geuss the argument that we should read widly is valid. however, again if i don't believe in it why would i just pick up a bible and read it?

 

[tieki]

I could make a huge argument here about becoming a christian etc., but I'll keep it strictly English-based...

I don't think it's a matter of believing it or not, it's a matter of knowing the basic story and ideas as a text in order to use it in your work. For example, I'm not a Muslim, but I may pick up a copy of the Koran (think I got that right!) to read, just to gain a better understanding into the writing of the text. To quote AsyLum:

It doesnt depend on wether you are christian or muslim or atheist...the fact of the matter is that the poems, whilst utilising a religious conceit and having religious connections throughout, is still a poem and thus it isnt merely the subject you are looking for as an advanced student, but the techniques.

I think you should pick it up and read it as a text, to come to a better understanding of another text, and then of english overall. Think about it in terms of another subject; you may read the Excel study guide for maths to come to a better understanding of the maths textbook, and consequently a better understanding of maths as a whole.

If you don't believe in the bible, I respect that - as malayz_angel said, "Everyone has the right to believe what they want to". However I do believe you should use a variety of sorces, including the bible if needed, to come to the best possible understanding of the texts before the exam, thus getting you the best possible mark et cetera et cetera...

Feel free to continue the debate, or ask any questions

 

[blah says she]

Originally posted by jm1234567890
i geuss the argument that we should read widly is valid. however, again if i don't believe in it why would i just pick up a bible and read it?

Because it might help you with your final exam results in the end? I'm sure there are a lot of people who don't believe in "it" and might actually look at the Bible. I also don't think the knowledge of the Bible would help that much in reading and analysing Donne's poetry. I remember reading one of his poems and thinking "what are you on about?" and I'm a Christian/read the Bible.

Anyway, good luck with it all.. just think, after the HSC you can forget it all!
- Anna

 

[Harimau]

Originally posted by tieki
That's the whole idea, though, to have ready widely - and the bible is about the most widely read book in the world (behind LOTR, i must admit, rather happily) ...

Actually, the most read book in the world is Romance of the Three Kingdoms[/b] By Luo Guanzhong. Every Chinese school kid had to read it, and most Chinese people living overseas have read it. A lot of western readers also exist. There is an online version:

http://www.threekingdoms.com

its a great book and it can be used for Change Modules!!

 

[bobo123]

Originally posted by AsyLum


you obviously dont have much talent in english and recommend dropping down

it would be so funny if he came back at the end of the year with a higher english mark than you

 

[no_proof_needed]

Religious texts are very important in understanding another's experience. Religion is a form not well understood. Although it is difficult to mark religious texts because of the many different ways that they can be read and understood (which is why it is not advisable to use religious texts as related texts), it's important that we understand each other's culture and belief, which I believe is a primary part of doing English (particularly looking at Advanced and Extension students)

 

[Lazy]

Originally posted by Harimau
Actually, the most read book in the world is Romance of the Three Kingdoms By Luo Guanzhong.

Thats actually a very good read

 

[malayz_angel]

Originally posted by jm1234567890
however, again if i don't believe in it why would i just pick up a bible and read it? [/B]

Well you probably wouldn't (although it contradicts your whole read-widely thing) but I bet it would if it was a compulsory subject for the HSC and could affect your UAI if you didn't study it. We can't change the whole syllabus just because you find it offensive to read those plays which don't sound that intelligible to me, anyway. I loved To Kill A Mockingbird when we did it but I hated how it was all about racism and how Tom got hanged for being black. But I still had to do it anyway???

 

[bobo123]

i think he's just saying that those who are of this religion are at some advantage, in that they would be more acknowledgable in these texts purely because they are of this religion. This a valid argument.

But all i can say is that , Jim, life sucks, build bridge and get over it. Use a study guide and go own those christian fundamentalist at their own game

 

[AsyLum]

Originally posted by bobo123


it would be so funny if he came back at the end of the year with a higher english mark than you

hey id congratulate the guy if he did...but complaining so blatantly about such a ridiculous topic is beyond me


come on lets think about it... he suggested that people who were of the same faith would be at an advantage...come on doing the torah or an lost indus religious text wouldnt make a difference...its about the concepts within the piece, if we were to analyse the content as he has done, then he has missed the whole point of the exercise

We are being marked on outcomes, and several at that, one of which is how well we are able to analyse, comprehend and interpret a piece, a random piece i might add.

And before people start saying ... " oh but why cant we do xx..."

well the simple answer is that it isnt our choice, we are presented with something and then expected to utilise our knowledge to answer questions accordingly, this means that taking upon the content and subject matter as being the core of the piece is expected of a lower band student

it is also because to do a purely secular piece not attached or 'tainted' with any other social stigma to it would produce a blank page, the reason he was writing about the poem was quite clear in batter my heart but there were parts with which i didnt pick up but others did after reading, those of non christian faith i might add make up quite a few in our class.

That was my justification for that comment, i didnt mean it to be of a deragotory statement but a piece of advice thats all

 

[tieki]

Hehe...this argument's been going on for a while now...still don't agree with removing them though