Science & Cruelty to animals (1 Viewer)

[chryslerregal]

ok guys,

This may seem weird, but I really have to ask this question and I'd really really appreciate it if I could get as many answers as possible from as many people who actually know the answer for sure.

Problem is: I really want to study medical science/bio med, whatever and I have applied. The only problem is, I cant stand doing/seeing cruel things happen to animals, anything that is slightly cruel I just cant handle, so anyone who has done medical science at any uni in australia, could you please tell me whether I;m going to have to witness anything I cant handle.

Thanks.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

do cadavers count?

 

[ViRtUaL]

they're already dead. it's not like u have to kill them and then do stuff to them.

 

[chryslerregal]

No, dead ones dont count, I'm talking live ones, hurting them and shit u know?

 

[ViRtUaL]

nah of course they dont make u kill them. just dont be a vet, and you're fine.

 

[chryslerregal]

I'm talking about all the horror stories you hear about science and animal testing - like cutting them open and putting shit in their eyes and making them ingest poisonous substances - all that testing on animal crap - I wanna do medical science but I;m afraid I wont be able to if theres gunna be any of that stuff going on at uni!!!

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

i drugged up a sheep..
i gave it an implant into its brain..

then i did the studies..and then we euthanised it..

 

[KFunk]

ok guys,

This may seem weird, but I really have to ask this question and I'd really really appreciate it if I could get as many answers as possible from as many people who actually know the answer for sure.

Problem is: I really want to study medical science/bio med, whatever and I have applied. The only problem is, I cant stand doing/seeing cruel things happen to animals, anything that is slightly cruel I just cant handle, so anyone who has done medical science at any uni in australia, could you please tell me whether I;m going to have to witness anything I cant handle.

It's very likely that you will have to cut up / mess around with animals which have been killed soley for the purpose of teaching in your course, e.g. in my course I have attached electrodes to the beating heart of a killed canetoad (they have O2 exchange at the skin, hence continued beating), I have extracted the uterus of a dead (and still warm) rat and possibly something else... though I can't recall. Personally I don't agree with the treatment of animals in the medical sciences - for some shocking examples read Peter Singer's Animal Liberation (which, as it happens, turned me vegetarian). Medical science certainly has a lot of dependence on animal models and experiments, however you can still manage to avoid them by conductive experiments which use consenting humans, tissue cultures, or similar.

Also: I have heard of people who have done honours projects with rats only to find, at the end of the year, that they have to dispose of the rats they used in the experiment, e.g. via injection or by sedating them and then cracking their neck against a table. Not the prettiest stuff in the world...

 

[liverpool3k]

Did anyone read the Good Weekend, with the story about the elephant men? (those guys that participated in that drug trial that went bad) Now that's nasty...

 

[w2dot]

Did anyone read the Good Weekend, with the story about the elephant men? (those guys that participated in that drug trial that went bad) Now that's nasty...

Haven't heard of it, but the reason why I'm not shocked is because of the number of animals (from dogs, to rabbits to monkeys) that have to go through that all day everyday for their whole (preferably short) lives

My friend does biomed science and all he's done is dissected dead animals, which were probably killed for that purpose

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

^Well, I know that the rats used at UNSW are used in psychology, then passed onto the biomed schools and whatnot. Personally, I didn't believe it given the sheer amount of rats we used. No, it wasn't pleasant either.

 

[kloudsurfer]

Did anyone read the Good Weekend, with the story about the elephant men? (those guys that participated in that drug trial that went bad) Now that's nasty...

I read it.

Thats gotta suck.

 

[Survivor39]

well, at first year UNSW, the only dissection you'll do is dissecting a rat and a toad, which are already dead from otehr experiments passed down to first year students.

If you don't like animal works, then stay away from physiology majors. You can always major in molecular stuffs like molecular biology, biochemistry, microbiology, immunology, which are not animal-related and you never have to see animal testing.

Good luck with your choice.

 

[kimmeh]

Its not as if youre going to kill it with your bare hands. Modern euthanasia solution and anesthesia is alot more humane. Pain shouldnt be an issue-suffering should.

And exactly how do you expect to be a doctor if you cannot stand to see cruelty? There are too many cruel things in life and i think med/vet school is only the start. Not to mention the things you see in practice.

 

[KFunk]

And exactly how do you expect to be a doctor if you cannot stand to see cruelty? There are too many cruel things in life and i think med/vet school is only the start. Not to mention the things you see in practice.

My personal issue is with needless suffering. If similar knowledge can be gained without running a prac class which involves killing animals then I would rather the class be avoided.

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

of course.. but within my framework im ok with it.. its a personal decision..

my personal thing is pain.. there is no needless pain with CO2 and phenobarb-type euthanasia.. fact is hands-on practicals should be done...

im not arguing with u.. but its just how learning thru CD-ROMs anatomy does not match autopsies and surgery

 

[ViRtUaL]

theyre only cane toad and rats. pests. should die i reckon.

 

[KFunk]

my personal thing is pain.. there is no needless pain with CO2 and phenobarb-type euthanasia.. fact is hands-on practicals should be done...

im not arguing with u.. but its just how learning thru CD-ROMs anatomy does not match autopsies and surgery

You also need to ask whether their manner of life (the animals that is, prior to euthanasia) is a reasonable one. Are they treated well in the facility where they are brought up? or are they shoved in a small enclosure with a little food trough?

Also, a large difference between animals and humans --> humans can give consent. Nonetheless, I have no problem with using an animal for pracs after it has died, but I do have some issue with killing it for the purpose of learning - and even more with rearing animals such that they have a poor quality of life.

 

[safronlove]

Solution

I think now a day there are many alternate and options for trials like in study of anatomy and physiology we ware using frog but now we have demo structure for it.

 

[kimmeh]

My personal issue is with needless suffering. If similar knowledge can be gained without running a prac class which involves killing animals then I would rather the class be avoided.

I agree with the needless suffering but i dont think people would become "good" practitioners if they werent exposed/understand what occurs. There are animal ethics committes in every university that monitor and manage animals used for testing/educational purposes. They make sure that they have a quality of life while being utilised to their potential.

As far as im concerned, putting your hand up a real cows ass tells you alot more than putting your hand into playdough.

of course.. but within my framework im ok with it.. its a personal decision..

my personal thing is pain.. there is no needless pain with CO2 and phenobarb-type euthanasia.. fact is hands-on practicals should be done...

im not arguing with u.. but its just how learning thru CD-ROMs anatomy does not match autopsies and surgery

hahaha man theyre trying to "virtualise" our anatomy stuff and it just doesnt work that way. They did it with PMs in pathology and it resulted in about a third of the class failing. Honestly, how the hell can you determine pathology from a bloody image?

theyre only cane toad and rats. pests. should die i reckon.

i see you have a very narrow train of though. why are you doing med?

You also need to ask whether their manner of life (the animals that is, prior to euthanasia) is a reasonable one. Are they treated well in the facility where they are brought up? or are they shoved in a small enclosure with a little food trough?

Also, a large difference between animals and humans --> humans can give consent. Nonetheless, I have no problem with using an animal for pracs after it has died, but I do have some issue with killing it for the purpose of learning - and even more with rearing animals such that they have a poor quality of life.

From what i've heard in terms of veterinary medicine, sydney is the only university in australia to adopt an "animal welfare friendly" approach to teaching ie. we dont induce diseases onto animals with the aim to euthanase them and observe.

Apparently, a few years ago, 2 students from Murdoch graduated on the provision that they have never worked on cadavers except doing their neutering in animal shelters. The development of your surgery skills must be limited practicising on plastics. I dont know how much better or worse off as practitioners they'd be, but looking at models all day must get very boring for 5 years. Its hard enough that veterinary textbooks/resources are scarce.