Should the insane be executed (1 Viewer)

[lolokay]

Cause rehabilitation requires people WILLING to spend hours of every day one-on-one with murderers, intensely trying to cure them, while also trying not to die.

There would be so much security, that i don't think the person would be able to fully open themselves in order to be cured.

If people were brave, selfless, had an infinite amount of time and space and were filthy rich, then yes, it would work.
But human beings are selfish.

isn't rehabilitation supposed to be the (a?) purpose of prisons/asylums anyway?

with enough research, we could probably find methods/drugs/etc. that make the process quite efficient - maybe it's not possible, but it seems a worthy goal.

otherwise: I would still hold execution to be the best solution, unless some other compromise can be reached

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Its not what they murderer feels that matters, its what the murderer realises as reality. There mightn't be a actual intention to commit the murder, almost like a manslaughter.

In any case, I personally still believe the person shoul be locked away for life.

Oh yes I see how it works. ITS ALL RELATIVE. This is postmodern cancer and its lazy. You're lazy and you're failing to come up with credible arguments and so you discount it all to relativism. What utter rubbish.

Those of us who still live in the real world unlike the middle class north shore hsc kids who've responded in this thread so far can understand the benefits of capital punishment.

it causes immense suffering to the victim up to the point of their death
it removes a scummy soul from our pristine earth
it is karmic retribution for the victim's families.

so what of the families of the murderer - it is their fault for not raising their kid in a morally upstanding manner

---

A question for all: Supposing that capital punishment were justifiable in your middle class North Shore minds, then would you still find the idea so repugnant? I find it hypocritical to da max that the collection of flotsam and jetsam trailing about in this thread can find CAPITAL PUNISHMENT AGAINST INSANE DICKHEADS so HEINOUS, but it's fine if we lock them up in a prison for the rest of their lives.

Hypocrites.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

No one has the right to kill. Ever.

And the mentally unstable are incapable to some degree of control or clear thought. In saying this, who has a perfectly clear mind? Everyone has been tainted in one way or another, just to different degrees. Thus why no one can be judged and executed, because no one can fully understand "mens rea".
So everyone is a bit insane, especially those who go to such extremities to kill.

Oh
My
God

No this is not the case. Even if there is a degree of relativism around, this Nietzschian thinking has NO PLACE in a civilised society since there are well grounded moral principles. People who deny this are dabbling in fallacious phooey and have no means to back up their corrupt and disgraceful ideas.

You should all be imprisoned for a foul state of mind.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

B
B
But every1 deserves a right to life

Why? You all claim to follow moral relativism but you fail to see how absolute you all are. Blind. Blind fools.

What does the HSC teach these days anyway?
And shuttup Rafy you partisan hack.

 

[fliick]

Oh
My
God

No this is not the case. Even if there is a degree of relativism around, this Nietzschian thinking has NO PLACE in a civilised society since there are well grounded moral principles. People who deny this are dabbling in fallacious phooey and have no means to back up their corrupt and disgraceful ideas.

You should all be imprisoned for a foul state of mind.

You seem the misanthrope.

Well these well grounded moral principals need to change. In no way is any society we have acheived pure and perfect. Civilised society is dirty and feral, and I admit would do well after a mass extermination of many flaws in the gene pool. Call my mind as foul as you want.
This, of course, will never happen. So society leans more towards the personae of compassion and understanding to appeal and maintain control of the individual. I'm merely suggesting it's easier and more likely to continue this path.

I doubt someone, with such a god complex, is capable and willing to induce and carry out a global holocaust will appear. Soooo society will continue to decay. Compassion and understanding are the cleanest things we can use when dealing with dirty people.

And half that fallacious phooey is probably mine...

 

[fallingstar]

no.
just reading the title of this thread made my stomach turn over and made me feel ill

 

[JonathanM]

I thought you supported the execution of SH...?

SH?

But no, I'm completely against the state having the power to execute unarmed prisoners charged with any offence. Because the state shouldn't have such power, because there is still a risk an innocent person may be executed, because of the pain it causes everyone involved and most of all, because of the way it desensitizes society against death and devalues life. When we refuse to take even the life of the most horrible, foulest human beings, we truly are saying something good about humanity and are saying how much we value life and are above these sick people.

My grandfather was a judge in South Africa and he told me stories of how he had to sentence murderers etc. to death (there was a mandatory death sentence for the most serious offences) and how hard it was for him. Stories like that will make you think twice about the necessity of the death sentence.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

no that story has no effect on my numb consciousness.

Because the state shouldn't have such power,

I don't see why not. I don't see why the death sentence has this problem with people. Is it the idea of punishing that seems uncruel? Because prison is therefore cruel. Is it the finality? Any sentence in jail represents some degree of finality, especially life without parole which you people often argue for.

because of the pain it causes everyone involved

lolwat? like um, isn't that the point? anyway noone who's not a liberal douche feels any pain when a murderer is sent to prison and executed for killing a 5 year old girl. the only person who feels pain is the prisoner - and that's fantastic.

also the family and friends of the prisoner, and i admit that's a credible argument against capital punishment.

because of the way it desensitizes society against death and devalues life.

lol

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

SH = saddam hussein

and your attitude towards terrorists and innocent arabs in palestine reeks of hypocracy, jonathan

 

[Scrub Ya Flaps]

An eye for an eye as the bible says... but i just couldn't see someone die like that, jail would be worse anyway.

 

[JonathanM]

I don't see why not. I don't see why the death sentence has this problem with people. Is it the idea of punishing that seems uncruel? Because prison is therefore cruel. Is it the finality? Any sentence in jail represents some degree of finality, especially life without parole which you people often argue for.

Because I can't see any state today nor any state in the near future as having an entirely impartial legislature, executive and judiciary which will always be responsible in exerting the power of deciding over life or death.

olwat? like um, isn't that the point? anyway noone who's not a liberal douche feels any pain when a murderer is sent to prison and executed for killing a 5 year old girl. the only person who feels pain is the prisoner - and that's fantastic.

also the family and friends of the prisoner, and i admit that's a credible argument against capital punishment.

Don't have much against the pain of the prisoner, I'm talking about the pain inflicted on, as you have pointed out, the family of the prisoner and also the pain inflicted on those who have to carry out the grisly duty and the pain of the family of the victims (death sentence can take up to 11 years to carry out in America due to appeals etc.).

SH = saddam hussein

and your attitude towards terrorists and innocent arabs in palestine reeks of hypocracy, jonathan

I'm glad you agree with me that they are "most horrible, foulest human beings" just like unarmed convicted prisoners.

But we digress (<3 how you link everything to Israel and Palestine) - those are losses inflicted from a conflict, not from an execution, as one sided as the ass kickery was, though.

 

[fliick]

An eye for an eye as the bible says... but i just couldn't see someone die like that, jail would be worse anyway.

Lol then another eye... Until some douche or the congregation of douche' has been killed and stripped of all dignity and made to bow to this new supremacy/douchebaggery. Revenge is hollow and pointless.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Because I can't see any state today nor any state in the near future as having an entirely impartial legislature, executive and judiciary which will always be responsible in exerting the power of deciding over life or death.

But it's fine for them to create laws, lock up people for life, collect taxes etc? The only way for you out of this conundrum is to either bite the bullet (me) or become an insane libertarian like zimmerman was.

Don't have much against the pain of the prisoner, I'm talking about the pain inflicted on, as you have pointed out, the family of the prisoner and also the pain inflicted on those who have to carry out the grisly duty and the pain of the family of the victims (death sentence can take up to 11 years to carry out in America due to appeals etc.).

But the sugar at the end is so, so, sweet. But suppose that the criminal had no family or friends, and the victims families wanted revenge. You admit that this would be a mute point, yes? So your issue is clearly not a moral one concerning capital punishment, but a practical disapproval.

You inhuman monster.

But we digress (<3 how you link everything to Israel and Palestine) - those are losses inflicted from a conflict, not from an execution, as one sided as the ass kickery was, though.

You were harping on about the loss of life, suffering, intolerable disregard for humanity ra ra ra before. This is no different. You are a hypocrite douche. If I wasn't maxed out I'd neg rep you again.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Azza16, Chrissiieee, Cinnamonster, cp3, Ethanescence, fliick, Freakstyler09, gsd, gunne, HumanDichotomy, I.refuse.a.name, Iron, Jessica14, JonathanM, kaz1, KFunk, khorne, lessstress, mbashbro, mostwanted092, murphyad, PrettyStarFury, PwarYuex, Rafy, ruchira2122, spiny norman, spyborg, strasiotto, sunny-side-up, Tofuu, yaniscool

The BOS weak minded north shore hippy club

 

[ComingUpForAir]

But suppose that the criminal had no family or friends, and the victims families wanted revenge. You admit that this would be a mute point, yes? So your issue is clearly not a moral one concerning capital punishment, but a practical disapproval.


You were harping on about the loss of life, suffering, intolerable disregard for humanity ra ra ra before. This is no different. You are a hypocrite douche. If I wasn't maxed out I'd neg rep you again.

But, comrade Nebuchanezzar, the insane cannot control themselves? They have chemical imbalances etc, surely we cannot hold them responsible, their crimes originate from a delulded perception of reality do they not?
The main argument for the death penalty is 'deterence', but the insane could not comphrehend such a concept, they cannot grasp the concept of clothes let alone that of justice.

 

[ComingUpForAir]

The chemical imbalance argument is bullshit. If mental illness had a biological basis, it would not be CALLED a mental illness.

of course mental illness (i'm talking about serious conditions such as anteriorgrade amnesia, dementia, etc) hav an atomic (thus biological) basis.....'mental illness' just means the defect/problem is within the brain, and it distorts the brains normal functioning.

 

[tonyharrison]

isn't rehabilitation supposed to be the (a?) purpose of prisons/asylums anyway?

with enough research, we could probably find methods/drugs/etc. that make the process quite efficient - maybe it's not possible, but it seems a worthy goal.

otherwise: I would still hold execution to be the best solution, unless some other compromise can be reached

I wouldn't go as far as to say prisons cure people...

Prisons, in comparison to rehabilitation that would actually cure the person, is a far cheaper option.

 

[tonyharrison]

NO.

Prisons are fucking expensive and association with antisocial peers see criminals come out with worse outcomes than when they came in.

However, most rehab or offender treatment occurs in prison because the offenders are forced to do it, so it's a moot point.

I'm not saying prisons are cheap. God i'm not stupid.

But if you'd care to read the previous posts regarding the type of rehabilitation a psycho murderer would need, yeah, i'd say sticking them in prison for life would be cheaper than giving them treatment that would actually cure them.

 

[Iron]

homosexuality is a disorder m8. You are inherently disordered

 

[JonathanM]

But it's fine for them to create laws, lock up people for life, collect taxes etc? The only way for you out of this conundrum is to either bite the bullet (me) or become an insane libertarian like zimmerman was.

No, but it's one better then killing them.

But the sugar at the end is so, so, sweet. But suppose that the criminal had no family or friends, and the victims families wanted revenge. You admit that this would be a mute point, yes? So your issue is clearly not a moral one concerning capital punishment, but a practical disapproval.

You inhuman monster.

I'm not one for suppositions.

You were harping on about the loss of life, suffering, intolerable disregard for humanity ra ra ra before. This is no different. You are a hypocrite douche. If I wasn't maxed out I'd neg rep you again.

I don't even need defend my cause; your whole cause is the epitomy of hypocrisy - concentrating on one particular country when there are so many other much, much worse countries to first be changed. More's the irony when not only do you go against it, but you instead support the greater evils surrounding it. There's so much hypocirsy in the world that I wouldn't care except for the fact that the tough cunts supporting your cause who aren't directly involved in it are too shit scared to actually admit the inherent racism behind their hate, citing other greater 'humanitarian' causes.

Again, we digress. Let's keep off that topic till Israel kicks some arse again, ok?


I'm not an insane libertarian - I just support the lesser evil at every point where there is no other greater cause to be seen. Given my support of imprisonment over the death penalty and given my support of Israel over Palestine.