Should there be an Aboriginal voice to parliament? (2 Viewers)

[howcanibesmarter]

why?

i just dont see the reason for it lol

 

[Anaya R]

I think there were some good points in theory for either side, but Albo botched the execution by keeping it so vague about what is being promised
That and everyone (read: the media) is heralding it as revolutionary but the question is will it really change anything? And I'm not necessarily referring to those who are well off and this just gives them an extra bonus, but those in regional/rural areas and/or those who are at disadvantage and want to be the change (whether through education, employment, etc). Which is hard to get behind *if we don't see what the policies are*.
That's been my main takeaway. I'm neutral leaning to no now, unless the Yes group can address the concerns outlined above.

 

[Trebla]

Please stay on topic ppl

 

[cosmo 2]

why did you delete all the posts. now theres shit in there out of context that makes it look like people are replying to people they werent replying to

also that exchange provided an illumination into the vindictive psychopathy dwelling within the deep beating darkened heart of generation z

most evil and despicable generation in all human history

 

[Trebla]

why did you delete all the posts. now theres shit in there out of context that makes it look like people are replying to people they werent replying to

also that exchange provided an illumination into the vindictive psychopathy dwelling within the deep beating darkened heart of generation z

most evil and despicable generation in all human history

I am not interested in anyone’s desires to attack other users whether they be older or younger. It’s not related to the topic of the thread, nor is it acceptable conduct on the forum.

 

[cosmo 2]

but now you've produced a context in which it looks like people who weren't being attacked now are

like my post on the previous page now appears to be a direct response to Anaya R whom did nothing wrong when in fact it was a response to the despicable duo

and eliminated, for posterity i might add, a classic example of zoomer malfeasance in the form of 'doxxing' and reaching deep into a person's post history in order to find something potentially embarrassing to incriminate or discredit them

which the despicable duo did in the form of an old post i made where i directly copied and pasted a sino post he made before me because it was funny, and they tried to pass it off as though it was original to me

an absolute dog act straight out of the zoomer maneuver playbook


why is this acceptable behaviour to you? it's literally defamatory and warrants condemnation and punishment

 

[Trebla]

I have now deleted the other posts so it’s less out of context.

My point remains that you guys need to stay on topic and that applies to everyone (both younger and older users). There is no need to resort to personal attacks just because someone says something you don’t agree with.

If you have a problem with someone’s post then report it to contact moderators.

 

[cosmo 2]

i voted yes

 

[cosmo 2]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1689017188462862336

 

[[ ]]

I'm going to be honest about the fights in this thread.

Seriously, people need to calm down when talking about politics. I know there are things that shouldn't be compromised but why do people always have to take the extremes? I know Racism is horrible, but it's also noticeable that migration usually leads to cultural conflicts. It's not about who are the goodies and who are the baddies, it's about conflict of interests. You can't blame someone for being a pro-immigrant or being an anti-immigrant, that's just avoiding the real issue. Any policy has its upsides and downsides, why is someone pro-immigrant? Because maybe he didn't feel the downsides of our migration policy, why is someone an anti-immigrant? Because he didn't feel the upsides of our migration policy. Vice Versa. Before engaging in any political arguments, we need to take a step back and think about what are the reasons why our opponents are supporting what they stand with, the point here is to think in your opponent's shoes. We need to step back from our tradition of calling each other Communists and Nazis.

 

[SylviaB]

lol leaked Yes campaign document shows that they consider that appealing to everyone who isn't a straight white male is the key to the referendum passing

https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/albo-hits-back-at-claims-he-botched-voice-campaign/news-story/d8bdc0c30af52bcc1c08165d251dad84

It's going to be so satisfying when this dog turd fails

 

[enoilgam]

I'm going to be honest about the fights in this thread.

Seriously, people need to calm down when talking about politics. I know there are things that shouldn't be compromised but why do people always have to take the extremes? I know Racism is horrible, but it's also noticeable that migration usually leads to cultural conflicts. It's not about who are the goodies and who are the baddies, it's about conflict of interests. You can't blame someone for being a pro-immigrant or being an anti-immigrant, that's just avoiding the real issue. Any policy has its upsides and downsides, why is someone pro-immigrant? Because maybe he didn't feel the downsides of our migration policy, why is someone an anti-immigrant? Because he didn't feel the upsides of our migration policy. Vice Versa. Before engaging in any political arguments, we need to take a step back and think about what are the reasons why our opponents are supporting what they stand with, the point here is to think in your opponent's shoes. We need to step back from our tradition of calling each other Communists and Nazis.

Nice to see a fellow centrist in the chat.

It's going to be so satisfying when this dog turd fails

Im deeply mixed about this failing. Whilst Im voting No, I do support recognition and I don't want to set back reconciliation. I also think that if the Voice gets up and ultimately fails to impact Indigenous outcomes, then Indigenous activists have far less recourse to continue blaming the "white man's system". Alternatively, if the No vote wins, will this blunt activists and the narrative that Australia is a terrible, illegitimate country? Will a No vote be a sign that Australia has drawn a line in the sand against Indigenous activists overreach?

I guess what Im trying to say is I want the narrative to change. I'm sick of hearing how the plight of Indigenous people's is all the fault of the evil white man. The question is, will a successful Yes or No vote cause a reckoning that allows Indigenous communities to take some ownership of the issues.

 

[cosmo 2]

albo is king midwit

dude really needed to take a rain check on how pointlessly risky this could have been but no one around him probably had the guts to say it

 

[SylviaB]

Im now firmly convinced the referendum failing is a great thing, especially since its projected to be quite a decisive loss that sends a much stronger message than a very slight loss would. Which means this will have been one of the greatest political own goals imaginable by Albo. I think the loss will be so great that it will effectively poison any radical aboriginal policy for years to come.

Even better, we can see prominent activists already bringing out the kind of shit that No voters hate, and this will likely intensify after the voice fails which will only exacerbate the hostility to aboriginal policies

He seriously should have tested the waters with some controversial but less significant legislated policies first, and he should have cut his losses and called off the referendum months ago. It would have hurt too, but it could at least be spun into listening to what the people want. What a shame for Albo that KRudd got to give the apology instead of him.

 

[SylviaB]

some data nerd projects an outcome of 38.4% +/- 5% for Yes on the day of the referendum. Polls will need to be unbelievably wrong for Yes to have a chance of getting an overall majority, plus WA and Qld are unwinnable at this point meaning Yes needs to win in every other state despite not having a consistent polling advantage in any of them in order to satisfy the double majority requirement

https://simonjackman.github.io/poll_averaging_voice_2023/poll_averaging.html

 

[enoilgam]

Im now firmly convinced the referendum failing is a great thing, especially since its projected to be quite a decisive loss that sends a much stronger message than a very slight loss would. Which means this will have been one of the greatest political own goals imaginable by Albo. I think the loss will be so great that it will effectively poison any radical aboriginal policy for years to come.

I agree in principle, but maybe for different reasons. I think a decisive loss can be a good thing if it moves us away from radical left wing activist style policies. If a decisive loss means Indigenous issues just get ignored then I think it will be a disaster and a tragedy. What is happening in Indigenous communities today really is shameful especially in a developed country.

However, part of my reasons for voting against the Voice is that I believe it will be a platform for the same tired, left-wing activist led policies which are based on grievance and do nothing to move the country forward. I fear we will see more poor legislation like the WA Cultural Heritage Act, or policy ideas like what came out of the Victorian Yoorrook Justice Commission (you know a report has gone too far to the left when Dan Andrews goes to pains to be non-committal). A lot of Indigenous activists seen to be focused on grievance politics and re-litigating the past. At no point do you hear them talking about bringing jobs, education and essential services to disadvantaged communities. Take the Yoorrook Justice Commission's recent report - it's just basically an attack on the "racist white system" and a demand that there be a separate justice/child protection system for Aboriginals. At no point does it highlight the root causes of the issues many indigenous communities face (poor education, a lack of economic prospects and rampant domestic and family violence).

Im hoping a decisive "No" will send the message that it is time to included other ideas on Indigenous issues, such as those from Warren Mundine and Jacinta Price. There needs to be a bit more right-wing/left-wing push and pull so we can get some more centrist led policies in the space.

some data nerd projects an outcome of 38.4% +/- 5% for Yes on the day of the referendum. Polls will need to be unbelievably wrong for Yes to have a chance of getting an overall majority, plus WA and Qld are unwinnable at this point meaning Yes needs to win in every other state despite not having a consistent polling advantage in any of them in order to satisfy the double majority requirement

It really is shocking, earlier this year "Yes" held a 15 point lead and I thought no way they can lose from here. Now with 6 weeks out this has completely reversed. Albo is coping a lot of blame for this, but to me the "Yes" campaign deserves the lion's share because they have run possibly one of the worst political campaigns in my lifetime. Despite having a huge financial advantage, they are unable and unwilling to rebut any of the "No" campaigns criticisms. When John Farnham gave the "Yes" campaign permission to use his song, I thought they would come back with a cracking, all-time great political ad. Instead what we got was a shockingly out of touch video - it's a three minute ad and you can only tell it's about the Referendum 30 seconds from the end. Just a gobsmacking lack of detail when the electorate is crying out for it.

The icing on the cake was when Peter Dutton responded "The Voice is the perfect song for the Yes campaign, listen to the lyrics, "You're the Voice try and understand it". Just sums it up really.

 

[notme123]

i feel like theres too many voters who havent had a single thought about the referendum yet and gonna do eeny meeny miney mo on the day. theres going to be a lot of randomness and noise compared to what the polls say.

 

[shoulfer]

Just seeing what your views on this are. I'm only seventeen so I miss out on the vote by a year. The actual proposed question is "A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

This is a study forum mate.

 

[carrotsss]

This is a study forum mate.

if you think this is unhinged for a study forum look at some of the threads here from like 2004

 

[cosmo 2]

i really believed yes was going to win

this is what happens when you run referendums on concepts that cant be condensed into a 3 second sound bite

i understand what it is just fine but its too boring and long winded for most ppl who are too low iq to care