The Abortion Debate... (2 Viewers)

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

EVERYthing in this thread is grey... if it wasnt i doubt we'd be discussing it. lolz

yer i think death penalty lets a person off scotch free.. and is a cheap solution to a problem..

 

[leetom]

All parents should be allowed to abort faulty fetusus. Knowingly giving birth to a child that will grow up with an incurable condition is horrendous.

Despite how determined a parent may be to care for a severely handicapped person, letting a child grow up with a condition that will result in a terrible life is reprehensable.

 

[thejosiekiller]

i dont know, yes it would be hard being handicaped, but would ppl who are handicaped rather not have the life they have? im sure some would say they would rather struggle and deal with the cards they are dealt

however, for parents to decide on this matter for the child before it is born is unfair as is all abortion- yet it is the mother's choice

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Then you guys would have no problem with so called 'designer' babies?

 

[thejosiekiller]

designer babies? in what regard- are they less human? or are they (and ive heard this before) more human?

either way its kind of bshit- the capability of ppl to create designer babies is narrow minded- trying to give ppl a perfect solution..... a healthy, intelligent, good looking child

in the end there should and is no such thing because human beings will always be individuals and compete with each other in various ways

i really havnt given thought to this though... is there anything in particular ntb that u r trying to bring up?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Well if you're saying it's ok to abort a child if there's going to be something wrong with them... it could be argued that's the same as removing the possibility for various diseases or making sure somebody has greater capability for intelligence, after all you don't want a dumb child do you?

 

[thejosiekiller]

yeah that is true but i said in the end it is the parent's choice on the matter of abortion....i only doubted whether the life of a hanicaped child would be worse off

but in the end it makes me wonder about the issue of the welfare of the child really?

if 'ignorance is bliss' makes a child appreciate their life....

would a handicaped child that doesnt have the ability to have complex thought on life, would they truly understand something like regret? however how can u expect any child to regret their life because the mother wouldnt abort- that is wrong/ it applies to other children too

its very similar to "pre-emptiveness" - who has the authority to end life? maybe not the mother and maybe not the child for not understanding each other's lust for life (creating/experiencing life)

 

[Comrade nathan]

Well if you're saying it's ok to abort a child if there's going to be something wrong with them... it could be argued that's the same as removing the possibility for various diseases or making sure somebody has greater capability for intelligence, after all you don't want a dumb child do you?

Aboted babies that may have life threating disease, or may cause painful life, is different to enginering a human. The human will lose qualities that other humans are capable of. I could also see pyschological problems caused. The person may fell they have a destiny and will become intelligent and have an increased cabalities due to contruction rather then human effort.

Removing the possibality of diseases is different to human enginering. The ideal environment for a child is that they will have the abality to grow and function to their greatest ability in society and contribut to it by there own work. When people ahve diseases and other disabilities they can not reach their potental. So removing disease's in the early stages of life through means of such as stem cell research (not fully sure how it works) etc gives them the oppurnity to be the best human they can be and be a conributin member of societ with hinderances. Human enginering increase unatturally the capabilites of humans. This means teh human will not feel fullfield, that theyu themselves have contributed to society


What i wrote was heaps scrappy its like 2:50 am in the morning and i cant be bothered re reading it. If it doesnt make sense ill re write.

 

[thejosiekiller]

dont worry comrade nathan i know how u feel- i just said more/less human, that seemed to cover it in my mind at this time

 

[Sophie777]

i dont know, yes it would be hard being handicaped, but would ppl who are handicaped rather not have the life they have? im sure some would say they would rather struggle and deal with the cards they are dealt

however, for parents to decide on this matter for the child before it is born is unfair as is all abortion- yet it is the mother's choice

There was a tv debate and a woman with disablities was arguing against designer babies saying that if this was the case, she wouldn't exist and that it is not the mothers decision whether or not life is worth living with a disability. She says it definitely was.

On the topic of abortion, the mother have compulsory counselling and my doctor notes that not one patient she has had has made a decision for abortion on unintelligent or hasty decisions. Of 300 people, it was in the best interests of both the child and the mother. How could it be ok to bring a child into an unstable relationship? Or into a drug addicted one parent family? The decisions to have abortions will always prevent post-natal depressions detrimental effects on the children and often those who do have babies when they were unsure, end up killing either the child or themselves.

For those who are completely against abortion, did you know there was a 13 year old girl in ireland that was raped and fell pregnant. Their laws against abortion meant she had to have the baby. How unjust is this? To have your rapists child? How could you ever love this child and how could you ever forget?

 

[thejosiekiller]

of course it isnt fair for the child and the mother

did the girl end up keeping the child or did she give it up for adoption? what welfare support was she given and what counselling- it definately sucks...such is life- and for it to become a disaster before it even starts is no way to really enjoy your life.

to have a religous country like ireland influence health care is unfair, but what about in other nations which say it is not allowed to have a blood transfusion etc..

 

[kat_mandu]

All parents should be allowed to abort faulty fetusus. Knowingly giving birth to a child that will grow up with an incurable condition is horrendous.

Despite how determined a parent may be to care for a severely handicapped person, letting a child grow up with a condition that will result in a terrible life is reprehensable.

your assuming that having a disability means your going to have a terrible life. thats a broad and may i say very incorrect statement. and does this mean that any child that has the possibility of having a terrible life for what ever reason should be denied the chance of life

 

[girlanachronism]

of course someone with a disability *can* live a rich and happy life, but the fact is, don't you think it's better if we can avoid these things all together?

like if through stem cell research we found a way to ensure that a child would never have to be born with downs syndrome again, don't you think thats a good thing?

 

[thejosiekiller]

bringing an end to diseases like down syndrome is one of the great things about stem cell research, the only thing is that ppl get very worried about the ethics of it all- we do we stop egineering humans to our desire>?

 

[kat_mandu]

may i first say that i am not completly against abortion. but in answer to your question, no i dont think it would be a good thing. i dont think having a disability, especially one like down syndrome automatically means a worse life

 

[girlanachronism]

may i first say that i am not completly against abortion. but in answer to your question, no i dont think it would be a good thing. i dont think having a disability, especially one like down syndrome automatically means a worse life

ah! how can you say that it's not preferable to have a normal level of intelligence and ability to develop adult responses etc? i don't argue that you can be disabled and still be happy, but, ok, my sister hannah who is now 7, they thought she was going to have downs syndrome. she was born and all that was wrong with her was a red spot on her nose. i would've loved her no matter what, and so would my parents, but it is undeniably better and easier for all of us (including hannah) that she was not born with downs.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

of course someone with a disability *can* live a rich and happy life, but the fact is, don't you think it's better if we can avoid these things all together?

It would be better, however you start messing around with nature and i believe there's a time when we just end up manufacturing children like comodities, u see what i'm saying?

edit: Since ur sister was diagnosed with having down syndrome, is it possible that ur parents could have aborted her when in reality she was going to live a perfectly happy life?
You argue the same thing when we discussed death sentences, it isn't right for us to decide when somebody should die according to you.

 

[thejosiekiller]

It would be better, however you start messing around with nature and i believe there's a time when we just end up manufacturing children like comodities, u see what i'm saying?
.

that sounds like the brave new world perspective

 

[crazyhomo]

It would be better, however you start messing around with nature and i believe there's a time when we just end up manufacturing children like comodities, u see what i'm saying?

edit: Since ur sister was diagnosed with having down syndrome, is it possible that ur parents could have aborted her when in reality she was going to live a perfectly happy life?
You argue the same thing when we discussed death sentences, it isn't right for us to decide when somebody should die according to you.

you believe that if we mix with genetics in order to cure diseases, that it is inevitable that we will genetically change other aspects of people?

and when did she say that a child should be aborted because it might have down syndrome? didn't she say that it would be better to be able to cure the disease before the child is born rather than have it live its life that way? her argument for abortion had nothing to do with the designer babies argument

 

[Sophie777]

How could they misdiagnose her? There must be something else wrong with her that caused them to think it was downe syndrome.

Those with disabilites would argue with you. They believe that if someone decided that their egg was unsuitable due to the diability being detected, then they wouldn't exist AND that life was worth living regardless of whether they had one arm or two.