The Beijing Olympics (2 Viewers)

[Slidey]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Goodbye. Out of this forum now.

Yeah, that'd be really appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[-WaxingLyrical-]

I just want you to remember what you said in this thread and think about it 60 years later, and then decide whether you were right.

Seriously the best line.

 

[Gay Captain]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

There're none. Period.

 

[ZJ NingNing]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

why is it so important to know the history of China? The issue is that China is exploiting Tibetans... I don't see how anything youve written here relates to the issue. And if you are going to study China's History isn't only fair to check out Tibet's history as you said you have to look at the situation from both persectives.
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I dont think I could have been more efficent.




What the hell is the point of this quiz?

From my knowledge, in Australia we believe in ‘innocent until proven guilty’ and it is quite unfair that right from the beginning of our discussion you have labeled China ‘guilty’. Our argument is pretty much ‘guilty until proven innocent’, seeing as I provide evidence that China is innocent and you will not agree until you are satisfied with my argument. Does this not prove you prejudiced?

I also noticed that while the pro-Chinas give detailed descriptions of the situation in Tibet, the pro-Tibets seem to give only general accusations without any specific claims, which was the purpose of my quiz 2: to show that most pro-Tibets here do not know enough about Tibet and China to decide the best for both. And if you read the answers to my quiz carefully, I have pointed out that with the Tibetan community making up only 0.15% of the Chinese population, they want more than a quarter of China’s land!

So now, would you like to provide evidence that China is guilty for us to discuss? I notice you based all your comments on the over-general accusation that ‘China is exploiting Tibet’. The definition I find on Google of ‘exploit’ is ‘use something for one’s own advantage’. Well, give that Tibet is a part of China, why is it wrong for China to use it for the advantage of the country overall? It is just like, you use your hands to help you with eating, but your hands do not get to ingest the food directly, the digestive system does. But in having the digestive system taking the food, the body is kept healthy overall which will in turn benefit the hands. Unfortunately, we cannot dissect China to prove this.

But I think what you meant by ‘exploit’ is ‘use at one’s expense’. If you agree with this, could you please discuss how China is ‘using Tibet at Tibet’s expense’, keeping in mind that Tibet is, at least until now, a part of China.

If you cannot prove your thesis, then, according to the Australia’s belief of ‘innocent until proven guilty’ we will have to leave it to that China is innocent.

 

[ZJ NingNing]

Seriously the best line.

Among all my other really good lines, lol.

nah just kidding, I am no way a good debater. But I just say what I think, after all, this country promotes freedom of speech.

 

[ari89]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

I knew I should've given up long ago - this thread is useless for those believing that there're severe human rights issues in China. There're none. Period.

It's all media hype. It will all become clear as time goes on.

Referencing sources would just lead to more arguments and rude comments from those who're adamant that China's guilty. N.B. Religion and politics shouldn't mix in the first place, anyway.

The reasons why we leave our native country:
- Further education to further our horizons when we eventually return to work in our country of birth or not.
- See the world.
- etc etc.

Same thing...if you think Australia's great and then you leave to work in the UK or whatever, and someone asks you the same question. Wouldn't you feel offended?! If you come to China and we'd also say to you: Go back to where you came from...but we won't. There's a real sense of community back there. Anyone who comes in and contribute/work, we'd treat you like guests.

On a similar note, there was one story where a Chinese couple got into a bit of trouble in the US and they gave their daughter away (temporarily) to a Christian family to be taken care of while they worked out their legal matters. They were wronged but there was so much racism going on. Meanwhile, the family didn't want to give their daughter back to them, changing her name and calling them scum, even though they worked night and day to earn a living after being wronged. It eventually took them 7 years to fight the battle. Still, the parents have taught their daughter to see the couple as having given her "the most selfless love" and to be grateful for their care.

There're so many good things about the country which Australia would never find out if we continue to report like we have. RE: remember that SBS or ABC show in December 2006 about Mao and the "opening of China"? It shocked so many people that we've come this far. Seriously, we've always been good.

Goodbye. Out of this forum now.

Just had to highlight that again

 

[_dhj_]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Just had to highlight that again

On his arrival in Beijing, Mr Rudd delivered a blunt message to the Chinese that Australia was concerned about the "significant'' human rights abuses in Tibet.

Today, he was unwilling to detail the nature of the abuse, only describing them as an "accumulation of problems which have underpinned certain recent events''.
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,23527628-5006301,00.html

 

[melanieeeee.]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

From my knowledge, in Australia we believe in ‘innocent until proven guilty’ and it is quite unfair that right from the beginning of our discussion you have labeled China ‘guilty’. Our argument is pretty much ‘guilty until proven innocent’, seeing as I provide evidence that China is innocent and you will not agree until you are satisfied with my argument. Does this not prove you prejudiced?

I also noticed that while the pro-Chinas give detailed descriptions of the situation in Tibet, the pro-Tibets seem to give only general accusations without any specific claims, which was the purpose of my quiz 2: to show that most pro-Tibets here do not know enough about Tibet and China to decide the best for both. And if you read the answers to my quiz carefully, I have pointed out that with the Tibetan community making up only 0.15% of the Chinese population, they want more than a quarter of China’s land!

So now, would you like to provide evidence that China is guilty for us to discuss? I notice you based all your comments on the over-general accusation that ‘China is exploiting Tibet’. The definition I find on Google of ‘exploit’ is ‘use something for one’s own advantage’. Well, give that Tibet is a part of China, why is it wrong for China to use it for the advantage of the country overall? It is just like, you use your hands to help you with eating, but your hands do not get to ingest the food directly, the digestive system does. But in having the digestive system taking the food, the body is kept healthy overall which will in turn benefit the hands. Unfortunately, we cannot dissect China to prove this.

But I think what you meant by ‘exploit’ is ‘use at one’s expense’. If you agree with this, could you please discuss how China is ‘using Tibet at Tibet’s expense’, keeping in mind that Tibet is, at least until now, a part of China.

If you cannot prove your thesis, then, according to the Australia’s belief of ‘innocent until proven guilty’ we will have to leave it to that China is innocent.

I'm pretty sure for the whole, 'innocent until proven guilty' thing to work, China would have to deny that they did. But no, I don't see them denying the claims. Even when Rudd brought it up. Their defense was mainly reasons why they should continue to do that rather than denying the whole thing all together.

Even you kind of implied that they did it:

If people actually study the event from a non-biased point of view, they will find that majority of Tibetans were slave laboured before the Communist army 'invaded' it. Now, the human rights issue is much, much less serious

 

[ari89]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

On his arrival in Beijing, Mr Rudd delivered a blunt message to the Chinese that Australia was concerned about the "significant'' human rights abuses in Tibet.

Today, he was unwilling to detail the nature of the abuse, only describing them as an "accumulation of problems which have underpinned certain recent events''.
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,23527628-5006301,00.html

I can't name 10 victims of the Holocaust off the top of my head therefore it didn't happen.

 

[Slidey]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

I highlighted the numerous human rights abuses earlier in this thread. A few of them are regarding freedom (of speech and otherwise), torture, censorship, strong class division, excessive force, religious intolerance, and silencing of political and ideological opponents.

 

[ari89]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

I highlighted the numerous human rights abuses earlier in this thread. A few of them are regarding freedom (of speech and otherwise), torture, censorship, strong class division, excessive force, religious intolerance, and silencing of political and ideological opponents.

No you're wrong. Kevin Rudd didn't list an example at one time of his life therefore there are no human rights violations in China. Both the liberalist left and conservative right media of the free world have come together to fabricate hundreds of world events in order to frame China because they are scared of their superiority and perfect human rights record.

You are so biased and blinded by western nationalism that you cannot see that.

 

[-WaxingLyrical-]

Among all my other really good lines, lol.

nah just kidding, I am no way a good debater. But I just say what I think, after all, this country promotes freedom of speech.

lol, I apologise if you got the impression that I was actually in support of your argument. I don't understand your pro-China nationalism and how you can be so blinded as to what's going on, but alright fair enough. Seriously though, 60 years later? wow you have great faith in his memory and the possibility of guilt...

Also note, that while you have the ability to 'say what you think' here, China represses that right of freedom of expression in its people (and incidentally freedom of the press) that they should have under Article 35 of the Chinese Constitution. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

 

[danlan]

I think it might be a good idea for some of you to read Dongle's arguments earlier in this thread.

 

[melanieeeee.]

please quote...

 

[danlan]

please quote...

P12-20

You know it's a bit boring to see same sort of arguments happening over and over again.

 

[melanieeeee.]

i think its a good idea for you guys to read our arguements and actually consider them for once instead making your own arguments and ignoring ours

btw ive changed my user settings to only 10 or so per page so i think the page number you are refering to is actually different on mine

 

[danlan]

i think its a good idea for you guys to read our arguements and actually consider them for once instead making your own arguments and ignoring ours

btw ive changed my user settings to only 10 or so per page so i think the page number you are refering to is actually different on mine

1. Yeah, that's fair. The problem is I've read too much basically the same thing on both sides.
People sometimes don't have the patience to read the earlier posts and just propose the same points which are becoming sort of cliche.

2. Post #174 to #256

 

[melanieeeee.]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

I know that some of my points have been repeated but I just want to have my say...

My two cents:

Sure, it's alright to hate the government of China, but do you have any right to deprive 1.3 billion 'oppressed' people of the right to hold the Olympics? Furthermore, what about those athletes who've trained for 4 years of their lives?

I'm not for boycotting the Olympics, I just wish for China to stop exploiting Tibet... but anywho my agrument for that is...

Sure lets have the Olympics... just make it at another country...

On the other hand since we are talking about rights, does China have the right to exploit Tibetans?

Which country doesn't deploy riot police when people start burning shops, looting, and killing innocent bystanders, including both Han Chinese and Tibetans? I wouldn't trust the heavy spin any bullshit Western media would feed to me these day. You always have to takes matters of moral relativity with a grain of salt before you jump on the 'FREE TIBET' bandwagon.

Ok we get it, most Western Media is biased but there is still a lot of truth to what they say. Just because the issue itself sounds bad doesn't nessessarily mean that they twisted the truth completely. Also I am not for Tibet because of this rioting thing, I am for Tibet because of the issue that China is exploiting Tibetans

Moreover, how many of you actually give a shit about the average Tibetan? Methinks it's more of a chance for moral posturing and hypocrisy. Why doesn't poverty created by corruption in Africa get more attention? FREE AFRICA FROM POVERTY AND CORRUPTION? The Tibetans may be religiously suppressed, but at least they're not starving to death in droves....

tbh you are right I don't give a shit about the average Tibetan but what I do give a shit about is that they are being mistreated. if this was happening to the a different country i would still feel the same. also there are heaps of world issues... however the CHina/Tibet issue is actually caused by wrong doing where as poverty isn't...

Anyway, I think Americans should all jump into the sea. Because they colonalised the poor, brave, spiritually enlightened American Indians. Same for the Israelis who just walked into the Middle East and felt like starting a country because it was their self-proclaimed Holy Land. FREE THE APACHE AND THE CHEROKEE AND THE PALESTINIANS AND ABORIGINES WHATEVER OTHER PEOPLE IN THE ENTIRE COURSE OF HUMAN HISTORY THAT HAVE BEEN INVADED AND POORLY TREATED BY ANOTHER RACE *joking* If the world actually worked like that, I would be astounded. Because every country acts in its own self-interest. Now I know some of you people would say that native people have been delivered a high standard of living and rights. But what about alcholism, gambling and whatever that's so prolific in Aboriginal and Native Indian communities? Ethnic marginalisation is bound to occur whenever one race dominates another. Get over it.

Is it not possible to stop exploiting them without sacrificing land? As far as I am aware of those other people that you have mentioned are no longer poorly mistreated to the extent of Tibetans. Yes it is a gereralisation that now Aboringinal people drink and gamble but thats because they choose to do it. China has interviened with Tibetans way of life but if they had a choice i doubt they would continue.

 

[Aralia]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

I can't resist but come back and laugh at you people. LOL. Look, we're only defending now. We're not making any counter-strikes to those attacks on the torch and people.

Once the Games are over. Tibetans will shut up and we'll slap their arses. Then the truth will come out. Yet as long as one knows they're innocent, they don't have to defend themselves straight away. Think of some westie verbally attacking you, would you swear back, or just walk away knowing that you're much better than them?! That's one of the reasons why no one's been openly arguing back. We're letting Tibet blow their horns and all, then we'll be hitting back with the truth. Harder than anyone'll expect.

Villains always report first. Remember that.

Also, I'm not blaming you for protesting after all these years of hearing about those reports. Although "seeing is believing", I pity all those who believe what they see here. Yet only one party's had their say. Wait for the other party now. Don't jump to conclusions.

Remember Frontline and the carefully constructed truths.

This will be the biggest lie of the 21st Century.

 

[Gay Captain]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Once the games are over. Tibetans will shut up and we'll slap their arses.

but there still won't be any human rights abuses?