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The mass executions? The fucking organ harvesting? Have you seen, no, the real question is, have you heard about this "organ farming" you keep referring to from credible primary sources? Have you ever been to China? Or you've only read about the fucking organ harvesting on teh interwebz? People who are dying arould the world waiting for an organ transplant rejoice!!! For the Chinese government is harvesting them fucking organs by the thousands!!!Schroedinger said:I'm fairly certain that not harvesting the organs of people you don't agree with isn't just beyond the pale for the 'evil imperialist west'. I'm saying that the whole notion of cultural relativity is absolutely self-indulgent piffle that allows ivory-tower academics to wank on about subjectivism and the evils of objective pragmatism and thus not put their necks on the line with an actual moral position.
I think it is utterly despicable and inhuman to mass harvest organs. I think it is despicable and inhuman to quash freedom of speech. I think it is despicable and inhuman to see your citizens as human chattel. I think it is despicable and inhuman to see the rights of a certain individual impinged through the tick of a fountain pen on the sheet of a death list.
Did I mention the fucking organ harvesting? Did I mention the mass executions? Did I mention the absolute smothering of any manner of dissent? Those seem to be pretty despicable to any human being with any faculties of reason. Glad to see you don't want to be counted among those enlightened fellows.
Yeah zomfg zeh onederful interwebz is always rightzzzz~~~1111!!!!! Hear hear~!!1111!! All hail teh interwebzzes wondrous addition$$$ to zeh freedom of speech and zeh all very important free flow of zeh information~!!!!1111!!!If it were left up to official Chinese government sources, we'd have absolutely no ideas as to what they were up to. Thankfully the democratising power of the internet and its wonderful additions to freedom of speech and information allow us to see the gross misconduct of the nation for what they are; despicable and inhuman suppressions of basic human rights.
Christ about this whole "Tibet has always been a part of China" debacle, hell, lets restart the Holy Roman Empire, I mean, those new independent states are only where they are now because the Holy Roman Empire gave them the gifts and goods and now in the winter of our discontent they have separated in an act of traitorous barbarism!
Get off your moral high horse, and go learn some history if you want to talk politics. Throughout the countless empires that had ruled China for hundreds of years, Tibet has always been part of China. You can no more separate Tibet from China than you can any other province; doing so would mean a fragmented China, as China is made up of different kingdoms from ages past. Do you have any idea what would happen if Tibet gained independence? If somehow, Tibet had gained independence from China, any other province can follow suit. Do you have any idea what that would spell for China? One need not to look far back in time to see how a country reacts to its states proclaiming independence as the American Civil War can attest. Can you understand why Chinese nationals get so worked up when it comes to the status of Tibet and Taiwan? Still, you don't care, the slogan "Free Tibet" looks cool and a weakened and divided China is what you want to see.Schroedinger said:Well you're wrong because by that logic the entire world belongs to the Holy Roman Empire.
Why don't you go celebrate your nation's status as number one sufferer of cancer (A very modern disease)
You keep talking about freedoms and liberties like you read it in a book, but you do not truly understand freedom unless you had it taken from you.Even if you don't believe in the UN's basic charter of human rights and human freedoms, you still have to admit that the mass suppression of dissent and the utterly sickening way in which those dissenters are treated is beyond recompense.
But no, please, by all means. Let us live in this idyllic world where the individual mind is subsumed into the consciousness of the divine correctness!
Please, let us bathe in the glory of the second leap forward, I mean, christ, only a few more million have to die for the glory of China to be even more resplendent. Heap another couple of million bodies on the pyre, we've certainly got enough coal to turn their thoughts and corporeal forms to ash, why should we treat them as anything more than fuel or traitors?
EDIT: In your own manner, let us have the bleeding hearts who call for equality among all human beings be slowly crushed beneath the treads of Chinese progress. After all, those interlopers are seeking to cause disunity, an unpalatable offense in this glorious nation of ours!
actually, we've seen enough laughable chinese patriotism in this thread to not care.abbeyroad said:*Waiting for replies from self-righteous "intellectuals" who has never even been to China and brainwashed Chinese patriots who blindly follow the government and who thought the "June Fourth Incident" was a mining accident.
Ironically, it's probably China who'll be in hell if it moves for Taiwan through force. Taiwan is a US ally, buddy, and has two massive US allies just above: South Korea and Japan, who together have some of the biggest armies and best military technology in the world. Australia could also be called into action depending on America's tactics.zstar said:As far as I'm concerned
Tibet belongs to China
Taiwan belongs to China
Xinjiang belongs to China
If you don't like it then you can go to hell.
Japan and South Korea would be very reluctant to get involved in any China/Taiwan stand off.Slidey said:Ironically, it's probably China who'll be in hell if it moves for Taiwan through force. Taiwan is a US ally, buddy, and has two massive US allies just above: South Korea and Japan, who together have some of the biggest armies and best military technology in the world. Australia could also be called into action depending on America's tactics.
Anyway, Taiwan doesn't belong to China anymore than Australia belongs to England.
If the war really occurs, I'm afraid massive Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles + nuclear warheads might be used. Hope there is no such a war.Slidey said:Ironically, it's probably China who'll be in hell if it moves for Taiwan through force. Taiwan is a US ally, buddy, and has two massive US allies just above: South Korea and Japan, who together have some of the biggest armies and best military technology in the world. Australia could also be called into action depending on America's tactics.
Anyway, Taiwan doesn't belong to China anymore than Australia belongs to England.
Oh here we go, another hawkish sino relations "expert". It's probably China who'll be in hell? Do you understand the implications an all out war between China and America would bring? Can you grasp the repercussion sucn a war would have on the world economy, as countries around the world are relying more and more on cheap Chinese products to help curb inflation? America and it's allies are smart enough to avoid a major conflict with the Chinese, especially over a tiny island. The "my daddy beats your daddy"mentality does not work in the world of politics. Let's not forget, China has something neither Koread nor Japan have, thermonuclear weapons. That in itself is enough to deter America's so called "allies" from fighting a proxy war with China. The way I see it, it's going to be the cold war all over again, with lot's of talk and no action. In the hightly improbable event that China "moves for Taiwan through force", Taiwan would fall within days; the U.S is going to send its 7th fleet to the Philippine Sea, out of range of the Chinese land based ASUW missiles, their flyboys are going to practice carrier ops for a week or two; In the meanwhile, America's "allies" are going to "condemn" China like they always do, and threaten sanctions, like they always do. In the end what's gonna happen? Nothing. Once the dust settled, The 7th fleet will go on it's merry way, the world will once again pretend as if nothing ever happened. Why? Because the world needs China, namely, it needs the 3 dollars shoes China produces. In the end, money is what really matters. Wars between superpowers are no longer fought with guns, but money. The U.S won the cold war not because they had more tanks or planes than the Soviet Union, nor was it because they were more technologically advanced, it was simply because they had more money.Slidey said:Ironically, it's probably China who'll be in hell if it moves for Taiwan through force. Taiwan is a US ally, buddy, and has two massive US allies just above: South Korea and Japan, who together have some of the biggest armies and best military technology in the world. Australia could also be called into action depending on America's tactics.
Anyway, Taiwan doesn't belong to China anymore than Australia belongs to England.
There is no country called Taiwan.Slidey said:Ironically, it's probably China who'll be in hell if it moves for Taiwan through force. Taiwan is a US ally, buddy, and has two massive US allies just above: South Korea and Japan, who together have some of the biggest armies and best military technology in the world. Australia could also be called into action depending on America's tactics.
Anyway, Taiwan doesn't belong to China anymore than Australia belongs to England.
It works both ways. China knows this, and it is the reason Chinese hasn't taken Taiwan by force so far.abbeyroad said:Oh here we go, another hawkish sino relations "expert". It's probably China who'll be in hell? Do you understand the implications an all out war between China and America would bring? Can you grasp the repercussion sucn a war would have on the world economy, as countries around the world are relying more and more on cheap Chinese products to help curb inflation?
America and its allies are smart enough to know that you can't let a country like China pick off democracies one at a time. There is all indication that America would respond to a Chinese invasion of Taiwan.America and it's allies are smart enough to avoid a major conflict with the Chinese, especially over a tiny island.
Any credibility China has would disappear if China used nukes on Taiwan. I imagine it really would spark a world war, grotesque a notion as that is.danlan said:If the war really occurs, I'm afraid massive Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles + nuclear warheads might be used. Hope there is no such a war.
Once you again you're confused.Slidey said:Taiwan has been essentially independent of China for about 50 years now, yet you claim China has every right to invade and colonise it?
I said "essentially independent". I'm pretty sure you can read, so I'm guessing you just accidentally missed the word 'essentially'.zstar said:Once you again you're confused.
Taiwan under no agreement was independent.
The Taiwan government was the Republic of China government which was recognised by the UN until around 78-79 When relations were switched to the PRC.
Under no circumstance was Taiwan an independent country.
It is called the Republic of China as stipulated by the Cairo declaration.
i was there, and the behavior of the pro china protesters was despicable.JaredR said:I thank the Australian people, especially those in Canberra for not embarassing Australia in the international arena through violent protest and assault.
It makes me proud to be Australian.
I was surprised that the media didnt make more out of it. We saw this one Tibetan guy get chased for about 50meters before being surrounded by legions of very red, chanting, drum-beat following zombies who tore up his flag and then called their friends about it.AlleyCat said:i was there, and the behavior of the pro china protesters was despicable.
one man spat on a small child, the other threw fruit and a full water bottle at an old man, amongst the general hatred towards a small group of genuinely peaceful protesters.
EDIT: and i'll add that the man who got water thrown all over him (on a freezing cold canberra morning) had this done to him because he was showing a picture of his brother who was mutilated and murdered by the chinese government just after march 10. at least 5 women started shrieking at him that "that is photoshopped!" when it clearly wasnt.
shame.
pussies.Iron said:I was surprised that the media didnt make more out of it. We saw this one Tibetan guy get chased for about 50meters before being surrounded by legions of very red, chanting, drum-beat following zombies who tore up his flag and then called their friends about it.
It was an INVASION. What life would be like if we lost that war we never fought
Yeah, I think embarrassing is probably one of the best words to describe it.Graney said:Where did all these pro-china nationalists come from? I couldn't believe people like that exist in this country.
I don't understand why, living in Australia, you would continue to have a crazy unquestioning reverence for the motherland? Every country has it's positive and negative, their blind refusal to accept the complexity of their countries history is embarassing.