The right to bully (3 Viewers)

[Phoenix Fury]

For instance, calling someone at "fat slut" may be a light hearted joke between friends in one context, while it could be extremely hurtful in another.

+1 million, hit the nail right on the head

If you think a teacher (or anyone for that matter) can't tell the difference between "lol fat slut" and "you're a fat slut" then you're completely deluded. This problem you suggest is unrealistic.

Teachers are horribly bad at discerning jokes from serious bullying. Throughout my schooling this became extremely evident to me, frequently told off and shit by teachers when we were all just friends jokin around, while the punks off ligitimately harassing fags are blatantly ignored by teachers.

Also, you make it sound like everyone is a total aspie who cannot discern the difference between a joke and continued, hurtful harassment.

I know it may sound strange but a hell of a lot of teachers are this stupid. I was always amazed at how a teacher could possibly accuse you of bullying someone who you sit next to every lesson and hang with at lunch etc, but the reality is a lot of teachers really are this nimwitted.

 

[Planck]

Again the problem we have seen time and time again is that the bullying is an institutional problem and these are ingrained by an inability of students to transfer to educational facilities that are more suited to their style of learning/social ability, etc.

Forcing these children under pain of juvenile detention to attend institutionalised bullying centers seems to be morally wrong to the point of being utterly dastardly.

The simple solution to the bullying problem is vouchers.

~woohooo~

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

Again the problem we have seen time and time again is that the bullying is an institutional problem and these are ingrained by an inability of students to transfer to educational facilities that are more suited to their style of learning/social ability, etc.

Forcing these children under pain of juvenile detention to attend institutionalised bullying centers seems to be morally wrong to the point of being utterly dastardly.

The simple solution to the bullying problem is vouchers.

~woohooo~

haha excellent point. Trapping students in their local public high school is extremely cruel. It can be described without hyperbole as imprisonment.

Before some fag says "omg why should they have to change schools because they are being bullied"; that's life. In the adult world sometimes you have to move neighborhoods or jobs if you don't get along with people. It's like that and that's the way it is.

Typical of authoritarians to try to solve every problem by forcing people to do what they believe to be the right thing. Apart from it being morally wrong, it simply does not work.

 

[Planck]

I think also entrusting the students to a degree with control over their education will lead to much better outcomes for the students.

When they realise they're not trapped there for no particular reason, but can attempt to transfer between institutions or go where they feel more comfortable, or where they are more interested, we'll see an increase in the diversity of institutions offered and an overall increase in positive social outcomes from this interactions.

Though the teachers union and the rent-seekers in the industry (i.e all of them) wouldn't want anything like this to happen because they care far more about their paychecks than they do about overall outcomes.

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

I think also entrusting the students to a degree with control over their education will lead to much better outcomes for the students.

When they realise they're not trapped there for no particular reason, but can attempt to transfer between institutions or go where they feel more comfortable, or where they are more interested, we'll see an increase in the diversity of institutions offered and an overall increase in positive social outcomes from this interactions.

Though the teachers union and the rent-seekers in the industry (i.e all of them) wouldn't want anything like this to happen because they care far more about their paychecks than they do about overall outcomes.

Teachers would hate to be genuinely accountabe to students and parents.

They virtually have unlimited tenure. Unless they touch a kid, they pretty much never get fired. Worst case scenario for incompetent teachers is usually suspended on full pay and free counselling and training to help them with their "professional development."

Schools are also appallingly slow to adapt to technological change. So much content could be provided to students online just as it is in universities, but virtually nothing is done online in public schools because all the old teachers are like "omg wtf is the internetz lol."

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

You're just ignoring what I post and repeating yourself more emphatically.

It will not work because you cannot control the internet.

If I wanted to create a webpage to bully you, all I have to do is upload it through a proxy server and host it overseas.

No one can prove I made the content, nor can I be made to take it down.

This can be done with great ease, in fact a certain BOS member has created a blog hosted in the US which has made a complete mockery of Australia's defamation laws.

Attempting to control what is posted on the internet is an exercise in futility. It is cruel to give the victim the false impression that it can be controlled. It is far better to be realistic about the problem and give the victim real support to deal with their problems rather than feeding this obsessive desire to punish someone.

you're a fucking moron.

teacher sees video of classmates making fun of single person. OMG I DONT KNOW WHO TO PUNISH. I DONT KNOW HOW TO STOP IT. TELLING THEM NOT TO THREATENING SUSPENSION IS NOT GOING TO HELP LOL.

but why? cuz jennyfromdabloc sed so
Stop coming up with moronic examples and false dilemmas. Judge the situation as it comes. Suck a chode.

 

[ad infinitum]

Indeed 'Uncle' has the right to say that he worships Hitler. But We also have th right to put him behind bars (and make him watch educational videos) for his vile actions. Remember that he DID take down the nazi symbols when told to by his moral superiors, however he is yet to make a formal apology to the victims of his hate sermons.

 

[SnowFox]

Indeed 'Uncle' has the right to say that he worships Hitler. But We also have th right to put him behind bars (and make him watch educational videos) for his vile actions. Remember that he DID take down the nazi symbols when told to by his moral superiors, however he is yet to make a formal apology to the victims of his hate sermons.

He never said he worshipped hitler, and he didnt have Nazi Swastikas, he had Buddhist Swastikas up you idiot. You fell for a social experiment and failed massively. Sure if you want a link to the experiment, i can give it to you.

 

[jennyfromdabloc]

you're a fucking moron.

teacher sees video of classmates making fun of single person. OMG I DONT KNOW WHO TO PUNISH. I DONT KNOW HOW TO STOP IT. TELLING THEM NOT TO THREATENING SUSPENSION IS NOT GOING TO HELP LOL.

but why? cuz jennyfromdabloc sed so
Stop coming up with moronic examples and false dilemmas. Judge the situation as it comes. Suck a chode.

I was more interested in school policy, not just one isolated case.

Would you say that as a general policy schools should intervene in cases of online bullying? If so, all the situations I posed are quite relevant.

Should we really limit ourselves to "judging the situation as it comes"? Are you really saying that we shouldn't discuss problems that may arise in the future?

Of course even in this case I totally oppose the school getting involved. I oppose it on the usual freedom grounds, though I doubt that will convince you. Of course, your authoritarian approach will as usual fail, and probably make things worse for the victim.

So you punish the student who made the video. What happens then?

Other students can still re-circulate video online. No one can prove who uploaded it, and as I said, it can be hosted overseas so even the courts cannot have it taken down. If anything, this will only draw more attention to the video and worsen the suffering of the victim.

If the bully feels spiteful about being punished (and there is a good chance they will) they can continue to bully the victim through just about any online means other than videos which they actually appear in. They can do this without any fear of further punishment (using the very simple methods I have already outlined).

Others outside the school and outside the country can also "join the fun" and brazenly make more humiliating videos. If a group like 4chan gets onto something like this, as they often do when things like this get media attention, then the victim is really going to learn the meaning of the word bullying.

Punishing the bully in this case is a terrible idea, because the bully holds all the cards in cyberspace. You don't want to turn it into an us and them situation where the bully views the school and the victim as an enemy out to punish him. You want to actually convince the bully that his behavior is wrong, rather than making futile attempts to force him to do the "right thing." If you can't do that, the best thing for the victim will almost certainly be to simply ignore the content and wait for it to blow over.