Unfairness???? (1 Viewer)

[sam_account]

i really think this is unfair, and can the school do this??

i beat everyone in the grade for one subject, the second guy got .55% less than me --- BUT apparently that person is EQUAL 1st with me?? i mean like wtf??

u work so hard, then they put sum1 equal 1st with u??

can the school do this?? --if i ask the teacher, they'll probably say its sumthing to do with rounding!!!!!!

reply please..-- i need sum fresh opinions

 

[hopeles5ly]

how do u kno he didnt work hard as well?

 

[Danni07]

My teacher has told me the mark reported to the board os is rounded to one decimal point. In that case you should be coming first still (ie your mark was 95.75, rounded to 95.8 and his mark was 95.20, meaning you were .6% above) however I may be wrong, and some schools may report to the nearest whole number...
So after all that I really dont have an answer for you...

 

[Gummy_bear]

yes, i believe that it is rounded to the nearest whole number as in the hsc you dont get half marks. it jsut makes it easier for the teachers etc.
for example in the maths exam, you can only get 1 or o, not a half, thats why you always have tos how working. i know it seems different to your situation, but the basics are the same. whole numbers are just easier.

 

[Danni07]

I understand the whole number idea, and maybe it varies from school to school. My teacher had explaine that the reason they report to one decimal place was for discriminary purposes, ie - no two people can have the same ranking. Again, have no proof for this other than my teachers word (who's been a teacher for many many years, along with a HSC marker)

 

[Rafy]

You will get decimal points when converting the mark out of 100 of each assesment down to the % weighting for the overall assesment.

i.e 77% mark with a weighting of 20% will = 15.4%


My school caluculate rankings to a few decimal places, but the actual marks are reported to as rounded.

 

[boasboy]

our school do different things for diff subjects..

my friend is beating me by 0.2 marks in maths 2u.. but we're both equal rank.

but in chemistry.. rank 13 and 14 is separated by 0.2 marks..

so.. i duno.. depends on school and subject me thinks..

 

[fleepbasding]

Who cares about rounding and decimal places??? The point is that this student was obviously first (albeit by a small increment) and therefore they deserve the sole ownership of number 1 rank! Appeal my friend, appeal this injustice. I am keeping a keen eye open to ensure that a similar thing doesn't happen to me for one of my subjects in which number 2 and me (number 1) marks are very close but according to my calculations, I am definitely number one.

This issue is not merely one of prestige, I'm quite sure that it could potentially be a disadvantage if the number 1 rank is shared. Because it means that instead of recieving your classes highest exam mark as your internal assesment mark, the two highest exam marks will be averaged and both you and the other first place will receive this as your internal assesment marks. It doesn't take a lot of thought to realise that this could be devastating... well 'devastating' is a bit dramatic, but still. The principle maaaaannn! The principle!

You have my full moral support in tearing the precious number 1 out of your class-mates unsuspecting hands to have (rightly) for yourself and no-one else.

This is all assuming you have made your claculations correctlly and you are indeed .55 ahead of your nemesis. Just to adress the decimal place and rounding issues that seems to be clouding the reall issues, all the teacher has to do is seperate the marks, eg- make one of them 93 and the other one 92, or 88 and 87, or 96 and 95- I think my drift is pretty obvious. Go well.

 

[heybraham]

you came first and you don't deserve to have that taken away. it's like getting a gold medal stolen off you, you just don't take it. you gotta fight them. FIGHT THEM.

 

[Casmira]

Isn't it fixed by placement of rank also matters ?, for example lets say you got a year of 50 students doing chemistry, everyone gets 50% but 2 bright kids get 90% and one 89%, there wouldnt be that much of a point that 2nd place fights for marks so he can get first because they are so close, that even if he matched or even surpassed first place (but lets say he could only obtain upto 2 marks and get 91%) it still wouldn't do much great difference, is that right or ?

 

[fleepbasding]

Not really, because rank number 1 gets special priveliges, like exemption from the moderation process. But, anyway- the issue here is that of making two people equal first even though their raw assesment marks show that one is marginally ahead of the other.

 

[Casmira]

Not really, because rank number 1 gets special priveliges, like exemption from the moderation process. But, anyway- the issue here is that of making two people equal first even though their raw assesment marks show that one is marginally ahead of the other.

oh shit, what if 3/4/5 are really close (ie. within 5marks), attempting to try to get myself to 3rd via 3 marks would that make a difference?

because ther is 1/2 in SDD then a small gap to 3/4/5 then there is a massive gap to like 40% which is 6/7/8 etc..

 

[phil2005]

Just thought i'd give my two cents.

First of all, at my school they send in marks to the nearest whole number, as many have suggested. I think this is common practice.

Secondly, I'd warn you to be very careful in calculating your raw assessment marks. Here's why:

At my school, they use a program called 'Motorised Markbook' for dealing with assessment marks. It's the program recommended by and endorsed by the Board of Studies. After the trials for English, I calculated the raw assessment marks of the top 5 based on the results of each individual on each assessment task and the weighting of each task. The result i derived was myself in 2nd by 1.3 (out of a possible 100).

However, when i received my assessment rank from the teacher, it was third! Naturally, I was not happy, and enquired about the situation, as it didn't seem fair.

What happened lies in how motorised markbook calculates the final cumulative assessment rank. In the process, using a feature called "add weighted tests", the standard deviation is set to 1 and the mean is set to 0. This supposedly to keep it "statistically fair and accurate". However, this has the fortunate/unfortunate effect of "effectively" altering the value of each task. What this means in plain english is this: 17/20 in one task worth 15% can be worth more than 17/20 in another task worth 15%, depending on how the rest of the class performs in that particular assessment.

http://www.boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au/markbook/manual.pdf

In my case, the situation sorted itself out due to an aforementioned factor - the rounding to the nearest whole number. Ultimately, the girl and i were both ranked equal 2nd. While I have no gripes about this because the other student has worked hard and deserves a good rank, the problem i have still lies in the process. In this case, it has turned out a win-win (as far as i'm concerned). But the fact that this could happen in other situations and not have such a favourable outcome is concerning.

While i'm not statistical maths genius, common logic suggests that if a task is worth 15%, it should account for that percentage of the final mark. If you get 10/20, you should receive 7.5% because that is the mark you earnt. The problem with doing it statistically correct is that it means that you, essentially, at the mercy of the rest of the class (which some could argue is how the real HSC generally works anyway). Yet the fact remains that if you earn a 19/20 in a particular task, you have still earnt that mark, regardless of how the rest of the class performed. At the very least, school's should be open about this from the get go - tell people that the raw marks may be adjusted by the statistical software.

I guess what i'm trying to say is talk to your teachers about how the rankings and marks were calculated, and that to keep an open mind. I can understand your annoyance - you worked for that first and there's no doubt you deserve it (whether or not its equal first is another matter altogether).

But remember to keep in mind that there is always the possability of a clerical recheck post-final HSC exam and also appeals processes to the board of studies.

Best of luck

Phil

 

[tennille]

I really wouldn't worry about it. You are ranked first with someone else. That shouldn't be a huge problem. And as someone already mentioned, maybe the person ranked equal first with you worked really hard as well.

 

[helper]

I am assuming, you calculations are done on raw marks. Teachers are able to use statistical adjustments to tasks. They do not have to use raw marks for each task.

When, you say one of you received 0.55 less. If that is in the range 0.51-1.49, then the board would change it to equal first as normally no decimal points are submitted.

 

[fleepbasding]

What happened lies in how motorised markbook calculates the final cumulative assessment rank. In the process, using a feature called "add weighted tests", the standard deviation is set to 1 and the mean is set to 0. This supposedly to keep it "statistically fair and accurate". However, this has the fortunate/unfortunate effect of "effectively" altering the value of each task. What this means in plain english is this: 17/20 in one task worth 15% can be worth more than 17/20 in another task worth 15%, depending on how the rest of the class performs in that particular assessment.

Ha, how interesting. I never knew that the software had such a function. Does it automatically do this or is it at the teachers discretion? If you know.

 

[fleepbasding]

Why does everyone seem to think there's a conspiracy agaisnt them? Since every single paper is marked and re-marked by more than one teacher and all the marks are put together by said group of teachers, there must be very valid reasons for what they do. They are NOT trying to cheat you out of rankings or marks, they do NOT have a personal vendetta against you and they do NOT show favouritism. If they did they'd get in serious trouble. I suggest you go ask them what's going on before you come whinging and complaining on BoS about how it's "unfair". Chances are you only know half of what you think you do.

dude, I don't see any complaints about 'personal vendettas' or 'cheating' from the original poster. He/she also wasn't winging, they were asking for 'fresh opinions' concerning the fairness of this and what course of action he/she should take. There is nothing wrong with asking for advice.

 

[helper]

Does it automatically do this or is it at the teachers discretion? If you know.

Teachers discretion

 

[Mandy101]

I think you're being petty - you came first, go out and celebrate rather than having a bitch about the fact that someone else is first too. I see your point, but the other person probably worked just as hard. Why focus on the negatives? The HSC is bad enough without piling on unecessary pressure and distress.

 

[sam_account]

dude, I don't see any complaints about 'personal vendettas' or 'cheating' from the original poster. He/she also wasn't winging, they were asking for 'fresh opinions' concerning the fairness of this and what course of action he/she should take. There is nothing wrong with asking for advice.

i agree with fleepbasding . . . Argonaut i'm not here to complain..just asking for sum fresh opinions and advise.... u shudn't make assumptions...beileve me , my school teachers are pretty biased and favor sum students over others...

but anyways..the matter was sorted out and i was awared outrite 1st---