VSU Emergency Rally - Tommorow (Wed 16th) (2 Viewers)

[stazi]

I have a penis, you should go and suck it.

I did that last week?

 

[Xayma]

Hmm now all that needs to happen is a protest to increase the fine strength, to above a level where the uni's wont see it as bearable (say $1000 per student).

Then we can have something other then a funding cut with no one to blame but the universities themselves.

 

[Generator]

Abbott was the president of the SRC.

Edit: Just a pointless post that addresses an offhand comment earlier in the thread.

 

[frodo]

is there anyone else out there who is thinking that they really dont care? just wondering...

 

[acmilan]

is there anyone else out there who is thinking that they really dont care? just wondering...

I am in that boat frodo

 

[Rorix]

AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHhAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You're the funniest man alive. Where did I propose that all evil will stop because the organisation will cease to exist?

You stated that union membership and numbers of politically correct people are directly proportional - in fact, you propose that the abolishment of unions would reduce the amount of students who are left leaning.

I am saying unions are primarily consistant of labor members. Just look at the greens vs liberals vs alp/labor club sign up rates in each uni's socities.

That might be what you are saying now, but it is definately not what you were saying before.

Before, you were stating the causal chain as being students join union>become left wing. Now, you have reversed that, to a somewhat more correct chain of events.

MELBOURNE -- Student union elections were held recently at Melbourne University. Around 20% of the student population voted. Left Focus, a broad coalition of left-wing activists, won all office bearer positions for the third year running.

But now you have again reversed the causal chain. I'm asking for proof of being in a union causing me to become left wing, and you've quoted an article dealing with a left wing union. So?

Everyone at usyd is a member of sydney union. Also the union is still a union. The way it is set up, the things it promotes, the activities it funds is primarily left wing, as the right wing does not seem to be that proactive.

Only in the sense that left politics tends to emphasise the collective while right wing politics tends to emphasise the invididual, does the structure of the union in any way (arguably) cause students to be left leaning. I dispute that this is true, but this is the only sense in which it can happen.

If you argue that the union's activities (e.g. USU march) are primarily left wing, you are again confusing join union>makes me left wing with i am left wing> more inclined to join union (or in compulsory unions, more inclined to participate in left wing activities).

Yes, I believe that is a very legitimate point that was made. Look at what I said above. I'm not saying it MUST be true.

Quoting you

Why is the government introducing vsu?
Ok, The usu has often bred labor supporters, and as such the liberal party thinks that that's the easiest way to break down the labor camps within unis. Students are impressionable, and thus the howard government wants to make both parties more even on that front.

I see nowhere where you qualified that this was an alternate proposal, and not simply a statement of truth. '

Come on, one can't say that there is ABSOLUTELY no way that the liberals (who are very intelligent) didn't think that this would help reduce left wing and labor promotion in unis. As if in all the factors they looked at (the pros and cons) this wasn't one of them.

Now you're trying to weasel out of it now that I've called you on your BS by appealing to the obvious fact that there must be a small probability, no matter how miniscule, that this was considered. Although you are correct in the sense that I can not be 1000000% certain that it was not considered, you know very well that you're just trying to cling to an "anything's possible" argument. I could say that the Howard government is opposed to VSU because student unions are actually organ farms for evil alien masterminds but the government can't tell us or we'd panic, and you must acknowledge, in the same way, that it is true.

But the actions themself make no sense prima facie, whereas the liberalism argument does.

dont understand what you mean by this or which part youre refering to

You are attempting to argue from authority based on your political economy class being an expert in the field. I dispute its claim to be a relevant authority in the field and state that even if a bunch of students that had been at uni for about 7 days really were an authority in the field, that this authority would not give any greater weight to your claim.

Haha, liberalism. How far they have strayed from this concept. From my understanding liberalism would be left wing. Now the two arent associated.

You are comitting the rather large and very common (especially amongst 'trendy' liberals or ALPs who have no real concept of political philosophy...implied insult intentional) of confusing the modern American definition of liberal with the philosophy of liberalism. The proper definition of liberalism is in the sense of economic liberalism - without googling for a definition liberalism is essentially concerned with giving individuals the maximum amount of freedom without infringing on the freedom of others - e.g. VSU, capitalism etc.

I was wearing a "fuck off liberal scum tshirt" to a jewish party, all of whom were liberal supporters (i like to inspire debate, especially from rich kids who get told what to think by their parents). People asked me if that was directed at left wingers or liberal party supporters. Ah, the great divide.

Anyone who is actuallly a 'Liberal supporter' in the sense of a party fan boy who has few thoughts of their own is not worth arguing with anyway, since you're trying to convince the mind of someone who doesn't think. I don't really see what the purpose of the story is here. I think you're trying to suggest these people are stupid but for anyone familiar with the American political system there's two meanings to the t-shirt.

AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! I really enjoyed this. I really did. I literally laughed which is rare. I am very much pro-choice.

I dispute the above. You claim to be pro-choice. I am yet to see your policy stance on any issue which directly conflicts individual freedom vs individual restriction with some kickbacks other than on SU, which you fall on the anti-choice side.

But being forced to do something, be it achieve a high hsc by my parents etc is my way of getting things done. I am far too lazy to do something regularly.

Your argument seems to be that you think people are incapable of making the 'right' choice themself so other people need to infringe on their liberty to make their choices for them. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that to be anti-choice.

Btw, i really am enjoying this (albeit heated) debate. Are you a debater?

For various reasons I adopted an aggressively insulting + logical style to engage the adversary on both an emotional and logical level at once, which horribly confuses them and generally leads to emotional outbursts, such as yours. Ultimately, it comes down to the fact that I know I can't change your mind, but by making you look patheticly emotional unbiased observers who happen to read the post will gravitate toward my side. Nothing personal of course but it worked like a charm on you >_>

Unfortunately I need to be in the mood for such posting which is quite rare, hence the much more respectful tone in this post which, ironically, makes it useless.

 

[LoneShadow]

Why won't people organise an anti-USU rally? I'd go to that.

oi....stay out. no place for UNSW'ers @ Usyd....!.......shookhi mikonam azizam.....

 

[stazi]

Well, as i haven't done debating since year 4 (I lost my only debate, and I'm not a fan of losing) I didn't try and psychoanalyse you. In fact that's one of the reasons I chose not to do psychology, as I knew I would start thinking like a psychology and that would begin to piss everyone off.
I could try argue once again by quoting each of your quotes, but as you stated "I know I can't change your mind".
That and I'm also tired.
Furthermore, what course and subjects are u studying

 

[Rorix]

Well, as i haven't done debating since year 4 (I lost my only debate, and I'm not a fan of losing) I didn't try and psychoanalyse you. In fact that's one of the reasons I chose not to do psychology, as I knew I would start thinking like a psychology and that would begin to piss everyone off.
I could try argue once again by quoting each of your quotes, but as you stated "I know I can't change your mind". That and I'm also tired.

You're only allowed to say that when you're winning and wish to draw. When you're losing, its essentially a concession, especially when its contradictory with your previous position.

RORIX: ARGUE BASH ARGUE
YOU: ARGUE BASH ARGUE
RORIX: although this is probably useless ARGUE BASH INSULT ARGUE
YOU: this is useless
RORIX: *claims victory*

Furthermore, what course and subjects are u studying

usyd comlaw

 

[stazi]

piss off. ill return tomorrow to argue some more. I tend to get disenchanted from arguments if they continue for a long time.
I'm used to winning as I said

 

[Phanatical]

Most political campaigners during SRC and Union Elections at USYD are people from UNSW and UTS in "Action" or "Keep Left" t-shirts. They shouldn't be allowed to, but the Union and SRC aren't about to change that rule, so that's how it is.

 

[transcendent]

Oi Rorix and 1Time4thePpl cut it out. OT please.

 

[Rorix]

Bah typical!

i would have gone to unsw if usyd wasn't paying me

 

[withoutaface]

Hmm, at 12.15 the protest which was due to start at 12 had a turnout of roughly 2-300 people. There are roughly 30 000 students on this campus. If only 1% of the student body care enough to protest, that's a poor reflection on the strength of the USU cause, isn't it?

 

[Phanatical]

Should also point out that many of those people come from UTS and UNSW, as well as USYD.

 

[greeninsanity]

Hmm, at 12.15 the protest which was due to start at 12 had a turnout of roughly 2-300 people.

Which is actually really good given the limited notice (we started handing out flyers on the morning of the rally) and it wasn't the actual student strike, so a lot of people went to class..

 

[withoutaface]

Which is actually really good given the limited notice (we started handing out flyers on the morning of the rally) and it wasn't the actual student strike, so a lot of people went to class..

I had at least 10 people try to hand me fliers today, and this has been publicised for weeks has it not?

 

[greeninsanity]

I had at least 10 people try to hand me fliers today, and this has been publicised for weeks has it not?

No. If we're discussing the emergency rally on wednesday (the one you said a few hundred people went to), we only found out that VSU legislation was going to be in parliament on Tuesday night, so promotion started Wednesday morning. By 1pm, I doubt the majority of students knew that the VSU debate had started.

There was a much larger turnout at the student strike today, which marched from the front lawns to Liberal Party headquarters..

 

[withoutaface]

No. If we're discussing the emergency rally on wednesday (the one you said a few hundred people went to), we only found out that VSU legislation was going to be in parliament on Tuesday night, so promotion started Wednesday morning. By 1pm, I doubt the majority of students knew that the VSU debate had started.

There was a much larger turnout at the student strike today, which marched from the front lawns to Liberal Party headquarters..

Oh so the strike and the rally were different things?

 

[greeninsanity]

Oh so the strike and the rally were different things?

Yep. The rally was USyd only and scheduled for the day the legislation was introduced in parliament, to show that students were taking action immediately. The strike was held today with students from UTS..